/PLD

[Palin]

/Rdm is a selfish sub that only has benefits when soloing and manaburns. Any other time it is more efficient to your group as a whole to sub Whm. Who cares if you lose 2-3 seconds on your T4 and 10 points of damage on your nukes? I guarantee you won't wipe a alliance losing those things than you would by losing Raise, Curaga, and Status heals. And yes, I have watched alliances wipe because Blms wanna enhance their epeens and can't do an emergency Raise.

If your raid goes 100% right, you won't need those extra spells. You lose some epeen, o noes. If your raid goes wrong, you can literally save the day. What would you rather have, the potential to save an alliance, or a few points of extra damage and some guilt when your alliance wipes and you can't Raise a critical member, Silena a critical mage, or keep a party of melees alive? I'd prefer the potential over epeen.

I hate Blms who sub Rdm by default and think nothing else of it. It makes our class look bad. If you lvled BLM as a first job, you might remember we were looked upon as both a DD AND a support class. Now with all the manaburn retards so caught up in their power, 99% of people forget how to support, or that we can.

[aurik]

If your LS is so desperate for /WHM at events that the world literally hangs in the balance for BLMs to use status cures, maybe some of the melees should sub WHM...

Now we are really thinking outside of the box.

Already happens, mnk/whm passing out cures and status cures, xyz/whm as secondary tanks in a pld/xyx-xyz/whm tank pt, etc. It just so happens, though, that blms of all DD jobs lose the LEAST by subbing whm, because it's a legit SJ choice in its own right.

If you know what you're doing as a blm, you know what you need to sub. My experience is that most blms don't have a clue and will sub rdm even when it's clearly an inferior option. For example, when we go to limbus with 1-2 smn/whm or whm, the 1-2 rdm(s) subbing blm for sleepga, and the 1-2 blms decide to come as blm/rdm...great, now we have 1-2 people to cure status ailments on the whole alliance. First floor temenos west, tigers spam roar and all the melees are dying because we can't put up shadows while paralyzed. GFG.

I happen to think /rdm has very limited uses. Fast Cast II is just not that cool; it's a crutch more than a tool. Whm should be your default sub, changing when the situation calls for /rdm-specific capabilities.

[Not Kuno]

If you know what you're doing as a blm, you know what you need to sub. My experience is that most blms don't have a clue and will sub rdm even when it's clearly an inferior option. For example, when we go to limbus with 1-2 smn/whm or whm, the 1-2 rdm(s) subbing blm for sleepga, and the 1-2 blms decide to come as blm/rdm...great, now we have 1-2 people to cure status ailments on the whole alliance. First floor temenos west, tigers spam roar and all the melees are dying because we can't put up shadows while paralyzed. GFG.

What a terrifing situation. It's a shame whm don't have something like divine veil and blm have something like stun that holds the mob till the issue is resolved.

[Seebo]

My biggest problem is BLM's that REFUSE to level /WHM at all becuase they use the "i am a DD not a mage" excuse. Sorry if you are BLM75 and you don't have WHM37 then you are gimp, there's no other way to word it. Suck it up and get it done. You might have to sub /WHM once every 3 months, but it better fucking be available.

The biggest impact is seen in small groups in sea or the like, it's nice when tanks die b/c there is not enough -na's or an erase available just because you decide that you are a DD and nothing else.

"WHM to 37 is so hard ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;/emo", give me a fucking break... Every other job in the game has to level more than one sub (some like 5), I guess BLM needs to be the emo exception.

Again just like locke's post... if you know when to sub /rdm and when to sub /whm then this post doesn't apply to you. Yes /rdm is better in quite a majority of situations obviously, but not always and that's the point.

Win :wink:

[Raineer]

I happen to think /rdm has very limited uses. Fast Cast II is just not that cool;

You forget that Fast Cast 2 provides 10% more "resting mp" time oops i meant AFK

[Maxxthepenguin]

If you know what you're doing as a blm, you know what you need to sub. My experience is that most blms don't have a clue and will sub rdm even when it's clearly an inferior option. For example, when we go to limbus with 1-2 smn/whm or whm, the 1-2 rdm(s) subbing blm for sleepga, and the 1-2 blms decide to come as blm/rdm...great, now we have 1-2 people to cure status ailments on the whole alliance. First floor temenos west, tigers spam roar and all the melees are dying because we can't put up shadows while paralyzed. GFG.

What a terrifing situation. It's a shame whm don't have something like divine veil and blm have something like stun that holds the mob till the issue is resolved.

Divine seal has a recast time you know... Stun isn't going to hold it long enough for 2 people to cure that much paralyze.

[Raineer]

If you know what you're doing as a blm, you know what you need to sub. My experience is that most blms don't have a clue and will sub rdm even when it's clearly an inferior option. For example, when we go to limbus with 1-2 smn/whm or whm, the 1-2 rdm(s) subbing blm for sleepga, and the 1-2 blms decide to come as blm/rdm...great, now we have 1-2 people to cure status ailments on the whole alliance. First floor temenos west, tigers spam roar and all the melees are dying because we can't put up shadows while paralyzed. GFG.

What a terrifing situation. It's a shame whm don't have something like divine veil and blm have something like stun that holds the mob till the issue is resolved.

Again you're descibing best case scenarios, if your LS always has exactly the right number of tank/dd/nuker/support/healers EVERY SINGLE EVENT then i salute you...however in the real world that's almost impossible

[neighbortaru]

What a terrifing situation. It's a shame whm don't have something like divine veil and blm have something like stun that holds the mob till the issue is resolved.

LOL

[aurik]

If you know what you're doing as a blm, you know what you need to sub. My experience is that most blms don't have a clue and will sub rdm even when it's clearly an inferior option. For example, when we go to limbus with 1-2 smn/whm or whm, the 1-2 rdm(s) subbing blm for sleepga, and the 1-2 blms decide to come as blm/rdm...great, now we have 1-2 people to cure status ailments on the whole alliance. First floor temenos west, tigers spam roar and all the melees are dying because we can't put up shadows while paralyzed. GFG.

What a terrifing situation. It's a shame whm don't have something like divine veil and blm have something like stun that holds the mob till the issue is resolved.

Divine Veil only works with Divine Seal, which has a significant recast. 9 tigers, 2-4 roars per tiger, how many whms did you want us to bring? After we run out of sealed paralynas, we're back to the same mess; 12+ people, 2 paralynas, and melees eating razor fang / claw cyclone because "<Warrior> starts casting Utsusemi: Ni. <Warrior> is paralyzed."

[whm_mahler]

You can use Divine Veil like once every 10 min unless you merited Divine Seal recast, (which imo is a little lame) so when you're fighting multiple mobs that spam AoE debuffs then having 1-2 Divine Veils every 10 min isn't that great. The more help the better. Besides having a couple extra people using -na spells every once in awhile to help isn't going to slow you down.

[Seebo]

If you know what you're doing as a blm, you know what you need to sub. My experience is that most blms don't have a clue and will sub rdm even when it's clearly an inferior option. For example, when we go to limbus with 1-2 smn/whm or whm, the 1-2 rdm(s) subbing blm for sleepga, and the 1-2 blms decide to come as blm/rdm...great, now we have 1-2 people to cure status ailments on the whole alliance. First floor temenos west, tigers spam roar and all the melees are dying because we can't put up shadows while paralyzed. GFG.

What a terrifing situation. It's a shame whm don't have something like divine veil and blm have something like stun that holds the mob till the issue is resolved.

Divine seal has a recast time you know... Stun isn't going to hold it long enough for 2 people to cure that much paralyze.

10 min recast on divine seal...and if you merit it you fail, cause any good whm merits cure cast and regen. True some of the spells such as poisona and paralyna are low MP cost and almost insta-cast with almost no recast time, but then you look at viruna, cursna, erase, stona... spells that cost 30+ mp a shot, with a 10+ second recast time. That makes or breaks an intense fight.

Rdm and Whm subs both have their benefits and downfalls, and a good blm knows when to sub each for the situation they will be attending to. ALL 75 blms should have both at 37.

[Not Kuno]

Again you're descibing best case scenarios, if your LS always has exactly the right number of tank/dd/nuker/support/healers EVERY SINGLE EVENT then i salute you...however in the real world that's almost impossible

You must have real problems if you can't get 18 people of ideal jobs at limbus imo. Theres a refresher for the tanks, one for the blms, maybe a bard or two for the tanks and some bards and whm for the melee pt. Thats at least 5 paralynas. Assuming you dont have more brd and rdm.

Divine Veil only works with Divine Seal, which has a significant recast. 9 tigers, 2-4 roars per tiger, how many whms did you want us to bring? After we run out of sealed paralynas, we're back to the same mess; 12+ people, 2 paralynas, and melees eating razor fang / claw cyclone because "<Warrior> starts casting Utsusemi: Ni. <Warrior> is paralyzed."

I think you have bigger problems then blm subbing rdm. Why are 12 people in range of a tiger if you only have 2 whm OR /whm to heal paralyze.

[whm_mahler]

Edit* Damn Aurik went all descriptive and I didn't see ; ;

[Maxxthepenguin]

You must have real problems if you can't get 18 people of ideal jobs at limbus imo. Theres a refresher for the tanks, one for the blms, maybe a bard or two for the tanks and some bards and whm for the melee pt. Thats at least 5 paralynas. Assuming you dont have more brd and rdm.

...not every LS is the epitome of perfection with every member having 4+ level 75 jobs. The benefits of BLM subbing WHM in this situation are greater than RDM. Sorry, its not all about your epeen.

[Not Kuno]

You must have real problems if you can't get 18 people of ideal jobs at limbus imo. Theres a refresher for the tanks, one for the blms, maybe a bard or two for the tanks and some bards and whm for the melee pt. Thats at least 5 paralynas. Assuming you dont have more brd and rdm.

...not every LS is the epitome of perfection with every member having 4+ level 75 jobs. The benefits of BLM subbing WHM in this situation are greater than RDM. Sorry, its not all about your epeen.

You're just like an A-Bomb. Here we are, talking having a good time and then you come along. BOOM. Everything's dead.

[Raineer]

Again you're descibing best case scenarios, if your LS always has exactly the right number of tank/dd/nuker/support/healers EVERY SINGLE EVENT then i salute you...however in the real world that's almost impossible

You must have real problems if you can't get 18 people of ideal jobs at limbus imo. Theres a refresher for the tanks, one for the blms, maybe a bard or two for the tanks and some bards and whm for the melee pt. Thats at least 5 paralynas. Assuming you dont have more brd and rdm.

ehhhh

all I can say to that is "lol"

it doesn't work out that way

[aurik]

Divine Veil only works with Divine Seal, which has a significant recast. 9 tigers, 2-4 roars per tiger, how many whms did you want us to bring? After we run out of sealed paralynas, we're back to the same mess; 12+ people, 2 paralynas, and melees eating razor fang / claw cyclone because "<Warrior> starts casting Utsusemi: Ni. <Warrior> is paralyzed."

I think you have bigger problems then blm subbing rdm. Why are 12 people in range of a tiger if you only have 2 whm OR /whm to heal paralyze.

O I C now, instead of asking the blms to sub something that contributes to more than just their own personal damage count, let's ask the nin and war to duo the tigers while all our other melee stand around and pick their nose. That sounds like the better solution.

[layoneil]

most people don't do Limbus with 18 people.

[Not Kuno]

If you guys can't get 18 jobs of your choise at a limbus then go tell your blm to sub whm; have a blast. When I go with my ls we have alot of whm and /whm to take of those things. And the dmg increase from /rdm isn't all that much, as I said earlier its about being "one race higher" or so. The fast cast is more about recast; mostly stun drain and aspir. I go /rdm because my ls has that flexibilty. If you don't then sub whm.

[aurik]

If you guys can't get 18 jobs of your choise at a limbus then go tell your blm to sub whm; have a blast. When I go with my ls we have alot of whm and /whm to take of those things. And the dmg increase from /rdm isn't all that much, as I said earlier its about being "one race higher" or so. The fast cast is more about recast; mostly stun drain and aspir. I go /rdm because my ls has that flexibilty. If you don't then sub whm.

As I said, you must come from an environment where /whm and whm are commonplace. From my experience, that's not your average group.

My limbus static group comes from a cross-section of HNMLSes so we can't carrot-and-stick people with wholly unrelated drops until they agree to come. Typically, as I've said before, the rdms need to sub blm for sleepga (because we don't have enough nonsuicidal blms) and we only get a few people who fill a straight curing role. Most of our damage comes from melee which is extremely effective but is very sensitive to status ailments, and blms subbing rdm and dying because of idiocy don't contribute half as much as if they subbed whm and played the healing role until the mob is at 30% or less.