Dual Wield nerfed.

[Coren]

Ok reading a thread on KI, someone posted that Haste now affects your tp gain. Haste now slows your tp gain down, while being Slow'ed actually gives your more tp. Does this now mean having a haste build is somehow detrimental? Tests must be done!

If that's true then I could see DRG/WAR in full Heca becoming the best DD in the game.

My understanding is that basically given a weapon, it will take a set amount of time (assuming identical accuracy) to get 100% TP. If you have 10% haste, you'd get 10% less TP, etc. You'd still want a haste build, because you're still doing 1-2 extra physical attacks in the same time it takes to get enough tp.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Ok reading a thread on KI, someone posted that Haste now affects your tp gain. Haste now slows your tp gain down, while being Slow'ed actually gives your more tp. Does this now mean having a haste build is somehow detrimental? Tests must be done!

If that's true then I could see DRG/WAR in full Heca becoming the best DD in the game.

My understanding is that basically given a weapon, it will take a set amount of time (assuming identical accuracy) to get 100% TP. If you have 10% haste, you'd get 10% less TP, etc. You'd still want a haste build, because you're still doing 1-2 extra physical attacks in the same time it takes to get enough tp.

Jump is unaffected by haste/slow, its an extra attack every 1m30 and another every 3m(?). If you can get enough slow for, like, 25 TP return per hit it would be quite powerful. Still I doubt it could be THAT great.

[Nny]

edit: Martial Anelace (240 dly) is like 6.4% per hit single wielded, appears to be 5.3% when d/w with joyeuse (large difference)

DW has always lowered TP per hit, if you didn't know (By the diction of your post, it seems like you didn't, but diction on the internet is hard to pick up)

[Raineer]

edit: Martial Anelace (240 dly) is like 6.4% per hit single wielded, appears to be 5.3% when d/w with joyeuse (large difference)

DW has always lowered TP per hit, if you didn't know (By the diction of your post, it seems like you didn't, but diction on the internet is hard to pick up)

Yeah I know, but never did I get 5/5/5/5/5/6/5/5/5/5/5/6 with 2 swords on RDM/NIN.

Sorry was just adding more specifics.

[Paralyzed]

528 delay my tp gain is:

14, 28, 43, 57, 72, 86, 100 - That's without getting hit, or having spells casted one me, or any store tp items. I figure it's around 14.4 tp, as 14.39 tp wouldn't give 72 tp at the 5th hit.

480 delay my tp gain is:

13, 26, 39, 52, 65, 78, 91, 104 - Same as above. So an even 13 tp (maybe 13.1 tp?).

276 + 260 axe setup, my tp seems unchanged. but 276 axe + joyeuse gets less tp? (unconfirmed)

[Nny]

Ok reading a thread on KI, someone posted that Haste now affects your tp gain. Haste now slows your tp gain down, while being Slow'ed actually gives your more tp. Does this now mean having a haste build is somehow detrimental? Tests must be done!

25% haste - 14% TP first hit, 15% TP second hit (Great Axe)
18% slow - 14% TP first hit, 15% TP second hit

The person who posted that is notorious for posting wrong information.

Yeah I know, but never did I get 5/5/5/5/5/6/5/5/5/5/5/6 with 2 swords on RDM/NIN.

Sorry was just adding more specifics.

That seems right to me. IIRC, I got 6+5 every third round with Ridill/Joyeuse (4 less delay then yours). I'm not positive though, and no way to test ofcoarse.

[Amara]

There is no difference in tp gain per hit from +10% haste or with +43% slow on.

Dragoon probably still gets an extra 1-2tp off jumps now though, I'm sure, haven't gotten the chance to try out /drg yet.

[BlackSkye]

I never hopped on my MNK to check but.... ppl been saying


Destroyers
3%, 4%, 3%, 4%, 3%, 4% so 3.5 TP per hit... nerf MNK burns pretty bad. Old TP gain nearly 150% as fast as this...

[Kitashi]

That's not the case at all. Went out and hit some things with Destroyers a little while ago. Got just under 5% per fist. First two hits were 9%, then 19%, 29%, 39%, etc. Since haste or slow was apparently a hoax of a modifier to TP, my haste gear doesn't matter probably... but for the sake of things I was a level 75 MNK with brown belt only to test this.

[Russta]

I was just on Monk and never got below 5tp a hit (and occasionally got 6tp) using Destroyers with Rajas and Brutal and Byakko's Haidate and Black Belt while being hasted and marched. I did notice my Asura TP return was ever-so-slightly below average though. I was also with a WAR/NIN who couldn't really notice the difference and even managed a 17% double attack Rampage. It's really not a major change and just balances things out more, saying TP burn parties are now dead is pretty ludicrous.

[epigram]

With dual axe I seem to be getting about 3 tp less per 100 tp. On some multi-hits it did seem I was getting less tp on third or fourth hit but I really didn't look to closely at that. I messed with 4/5 hecatomb and haste, I saw no TP difference.

I tried Scythe and gained about 3-5tp over 100. I think about the only people who might get hurt by this are thieves and nin's.

[inafume]

Just messing around with friends popping NMs in Onzozo, I was running around as THF/NIN seeing if my TP gain was changed. With my normal setup (~12% haste, Rajas/Brutal, but higher delay daggers) I wasn't seeing any difference in TP gain. Still 5s and 6s, maybe slightly less 6s than before, but I didn't see any 4s. NIN friend was getting 9tp from a round with Unsho/Unji, 10tp from Fudo/Senj.

[Vixy]

So would using a harpe more effective then it was before as thf?

[Heian]

The only thing pissing me off about this TP nerf is on my Jin TP returns. I got about 4 11% in a row with and without Rajas Ring on. 281 Katana Skill on EP mobs with +30 Acc so I severly doubt I was missing a hit. My damage was consitent as well.

With Rajas on my TP gain looked like this (Not including random wiffs)

9 10 9 10 9 10 10 10 10 9 9 10 9 10

then next fight with Rajas still on

10 10 10 10 10 10 9 10 10 9 9 10 10

Rajas off

9 10 9 10 10 9 9 10 10 9 10 10 9 10


Its fucking wierd but Melee burns are still defintly going to kick ass and get great EXP. Only thing I see happing to my TP is that I am going to lose about 5% TP than what I am used to. Once I get my Brutal Earring and LV8 Katana (@LV6 right now) I'll probably never even notice the difference.

EDIT: This was Fudo/Senjuriko with Supponimi and AF body on. Also when I took AF body off and tanked in Haub, my TP gain was constienly 10 per round. if not always. (With Rajas on)

Have to grab a Moon Bauble real quick then I'll test more.

[Eaglestrike]

I think this hurt thf the most. We exploit tp floor the most, other jobs can get by without worrying. We'll see how things go in an exp pt. It's only 1 more round or so, but that could make a difference.

[Luminaire]

I was just on Monk and never got below 5tp a hit (and occasionally got 6tp) using Destroyers with Rajas and Brutal and Byakko's Haidate and Black Belt while being hasted and marched. I did notice my Asura TP return was ever-so-slightly below average though. I was also with a WAR/NIN who couldn't really notice the difference and even managed a 17% double attack Rampage. It's really not a major change and just balances things out more, saying TP burn parties are now dead is pretty ludicrous.

Don't even really need to WS once you get to a certain point, stopping to Vorpal Blade with Ridill/Joyeuse skips 1~2 combat rounds just for the animation. TP isn't a big deal. Good for 2h weapon users to get a buff but I really don't see that changing much either, they needed a lot more help than 1tp extra a hit.

[Ohm]

Here's my theory for the new TP system.


SE has given different types of weapons a damage range that we are all aware of; there's a maximum and minimum damage a character can put off. Weapons that are meant to have low delay and low attack are significantly nerfed, because they tend to hit for low damage and on the low side of their damage range. Therefore, they hit the mob as often as before, but due to their low damage, their receive far less TP. Weapons with high attack--or a character with a high attack build--will get more TP return for their hits; vice versa of the explaination about weaker weapons. I think the easiest way to combat the new TP system is to have a focused attack build. And honestly, I think the only ones that really got nerfed were THF's, which is pretty sad 'cause THF's weren't the damage class that WAR's and MNK's are.

Also, Kraken Club nerf, heh.

[Heian]

I was just on Monk and never got below 5tp a hit (and occasionally got 6tp) using Destroyers with Rajas and Brutal and Byakko's Haidate and Black Belt while being hasted and marched. I did notice my Asura TP return was ever-so-slightly below average though. I was also with a WAR/NIN who couldn't really notice the difference and even managed a 17% double attack Rampage. It's really not a major change and just balances things out more, saying TP burn parties are now dead is pretty ludicrous.

Don't even really need to WS once you get to a certain point, stopping to Vorpal Blade with Ridill/Joyeuse skips 1~2 combat rounds just for the animation. TP isn't a big deal. Good for 2h weapon users to get a buff but I really don't see that changing much either, they needed a lot more help than 1tp extra a hit.

So true about 2 handed weapons.

Let me finish this Fenrir fight and hen I will try out a couple ideas I am working on. I think that this TP nerf is directly related to the delay of the weapon + Dual Weild traits.

[Eaglestrike]

Here's my theory for the new TP system.


SE has given different types of weapons a damage range that we are all aware of; there's a maximum and minimum damage a character can put off. Weapons that are meant to have low delay and low attack are significantly nerfed, because they tend to hit for low damage and on the low side of their damage range. Therefore, they hit the mob as often as before, but due to their low damage, their receive far less TP. Weapons with high attack--or a character with a high attack build--will get more TP return for their hits; vice versa of the explaination about weaker weapons. I think the easiest way to combat the new TP system is to have a focused attack build. And honestly, I think the only ones that really got nerfed were THF's, which is pretty sad 'cause THF's weren't the damage class that WAR's and MNK's are.

Also, Kraken Club nerf, heh.

Yep. Here's to hoping Merit expansions lets me merit another Combat skill, SE gives us higher dagger + sword ratings, and I can get a Justice sword sometime. That'll fix my thf up again...lol /dream

[Awntawn]

scythe used to take 8 hits for a full 100, now it takes 7. much? dunno, time will tell, but it is improvement.