Dual Wield nerfed.

[Heian]

Also Kareface, great work. You proved what I was thinking earlier about the delay of the weapon and Dual Wield Traits being the factors for TP gain now. Guessing that THFs Blah-Duche or whatever is going to drop in price alot..

Thanks. One thing I would like to note with DW. You will gain less TP per swing off a lower delay weapon, but you will swing more often. So the weapon won't be as good as it was before. That doesn't mean a higher delay weapoon is any better. I will say that this patch does hurt the lower delay weapons the most tho.

Yep it means some of the Unsho and Unji NINs I burn with will be switching to the higher DPS overall Fudo/Senji setup. I have never been a fan of the Unji/Unsho setup because you are throwing away 8~9 Base Damage per hand and 9% Critical Hit Rate increase. I just do not see the logic in it, but hey whatever. I bet in less than one week there will be a shitload of Unji/Unsho being sold in Rollanberry Mall, all of them undercutting each other.

not really.
this tp nerf is hardly noticeable in a long run.
it doesnt change the fact u/u still hit faster.

you might need another attack round to hit 100tp, but if you missed 1 hit or double attack 1hit, you wont notice that 1tp loss per round at all.

No Unji/Unsho will parser lower. Take two people with identical merits and gear and race. Unji/Unsho will parser lower. Yeah sure it looks cool that you don't stop swinging but the numbers are not there. With this nerf on the Dual Wield and TP you will notice it. Infact next time I PT with my friend who uses it I will get the parser logs from a friend. Granted my gear is alot crappier compared to his but a few more weeks and I'll be on par.

[loial]

While I was testing out the PLD shield changes, I heard people in my LS saying that their NIN TP gain was nerfed. That got me thinking... was my MNK TP gain nerfed?

Now, I know this wasn't the "best" method of testing it out... but I figured it would be somewhat worthwhile (and hey, I was only up for 1 hour after servers came up, so not much time to test things out):

I just took off my PLD sword/shield and was punching mobs. I got the same TP gain as my monk (pre-update), 6 TP per swing for 12 TP per round. Of course, he has no martial arts skill and has the "max" delay for fighting with fists (450 or something).

I didn't get to do this on my monk, but I just figured if my PLD could get 12TP per round, then my monk should as well. But, people are saying that monk with Destroyers were getting 3-4TP per hit? That true or that just speculation?

Another interesting thing... punch with just one fist (shield equipped on other), I think I was getting 10 or 12TP per round. Kinda strange I thought.

[Eaglestrike]

They just lowered the tp floor from 5 to 4.5 or 4.

No, if there is a floor, its alot lower. My guess is that its been removed competely.

It's 4.5 when you Dual Wield. It's 4.66% single wield. At least 4.66% is the least amount of tp anyone will receive as my 150 damage dagger gives me that when Dual Wielding.

Funny they do this, because now what is the king of tp gain? Multi-hit weapons still. It didn't hurt them much, which is the power aspect of war (War without Joy or Ridill offhand wasn't that amazingly strong IMO).

What they should've done is increased tp gain at the top end, but left the bottom end alone.

This will effect:
Monks + Nin's slightly.
U/U nin's a lot.
Non-multi-hit weapons Thieves a LOT, they hurt me a good bit. Nothing amazing, but I don't like it.

[freja]

MNKs are mostly untouched.

I was still getting at least 5 tp per punch with Destroyers, Rajas Ring, and Brutal Earring. On the 11th punch it went up 1 extra tp, going from 56 instead of 55.

Basically this means I'll probably end up with 2 or 3 tp less than I used to get, but it doesn't change the number of punches I have to connect with to go from 0 to 100. My Asuran Fists still returns 16 tp.

This patch isn't gonna affect MNKs at all really. Or WARs for that matter. Even without Rajas or Brutal I expect it to take at most 1 more punch to hit 100. Low delay THF and NINs are where it will touch the most.

[Onizuka]

Lol SE is fucking retarded...

They say their going to nerf war/nin but instead they nerf the weakest DoT job in the game and change nothing for war/nin only making war/thf stronger...

They say their making scythe's do more dmg because they don't want drks using anything but scythe only to give them an A skill in GS for nothing and better yet nerf scythe even more by giving all low delay 2h weapons more tp per swing, changing nothing...

SE only company i know to do a bunch of shit only to have everything be the same if not alot worse GG

[Maxxthepenguin]

Lol SE is fucking retarded...

They say their going to nerf war/nin but instead they nerf the weakest DoT job in the game and change nothing for war/nin only making war/thf stronger...

They say their making scythe's do more dmg because they don't want drks using anything but scythe only to give them an A skill in GS for nothing and better yet nerf scythe even more by giving all low delay 2h weapons more tp per swing, changing nothing...

SE only company i know to do a bunch of shit only to have everything be the same if not alot worse GG

...they never said that all the job changes would be implemented at once.
You're not quite broods, but damnit I know you're trying, and you're getting there.

[inafume]

This only affects THF if you are playing with the TP floor. If you weren't, you probably couldn't tell there was a change.

[Eaglestrike]

Thief wasn't the weakest DoT job in the game. But...they might be now...

[Maxxthepenguin]

Thief wasn't the weakest DoT job in the game. But...they might be now...

Yes they were... toss a THF and any other job with similarly priced equipment in a party, fight something not piercing weak, and the other job will have more DoT. THF is best at controlling enmity, not DDing.

[Eaglestrike]

Thief wasn't the weakest DoT job in the game. But...they might be now...

Yes they were... toss a THF and any other job with similarly priced equipment in a party, fight something not piercing weak, and the other job will have more DoT. THF is best at controlling enmity, not DDing.

I've outparsed all sorts of jobs and made drk's cry in ws spam parties. I massively exploited the tp floor and now they nerfed that. Nothing could exploit tp floor like thief, and on top of that, we were a multi-hit class by Triple and Brutal's attack, the speed of our attacks were unmatched, therefore our DoT could be great.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Thief wasn't the weakest DoT job in the game. But...they might be now...

Yes they were... toss a THF and any other job with similarly priced equipment in a party, fight something not piercing weak, and the other job will have more DoT. THF is best at controlling enmity, not DDing.

I've outparsed all sorts of jobs and made drk's cry in ws spam parties. I massively exploited the tp floor and now they nerfed that. Nothing could exploit tp floor like thief, and on top of that, we were a multi-hit class by Triple and Brutal's attack, the speed of our attacks were unmatched, therefore our DoT could be great.

And you're fully merited and I'm guessing have awesome gear. I have no doubt you could deal a shitton of damage. You got PAST the weaknesses of the job, but THF still is a hate controller before a DD.

And most DRKs suck, honest to god, some actually WANT to sub THF at 75.

[Eaglestrike]

You control hate either through Damage or enmity abilities, since we only transfer hate through one ability, damage is the key.

However, I don't care about thf in an HNM standpoint, that difference is minor. I'm talking in a ws spam party, my tp is 10% slower now, that stings. There are fixes I can make to get close to my former glory but I don't have easy access to these things.

[Onizuka]

Thief wasn't the weakest DoT job in the game. But...they might be now...

Yes they were... toss a THF and any other job with similarly priced equipment in a party, fight something not piercing weak, and the other job will have more DoT. THF is best at controlling enmity, not DDing.

You know we have healing mages, damage mages, support mages, but only 1 kind of melee... Melee Deal dmg thats it.. Drk should be the rdm of melee, thf the brd of melee, and sam the smn of melee etc, each bringing something diffrent to the party. Now that would be cool if thf could SATA from the front all the time and 98% of all drks spells weren't worthless. and some jobs weren't just plain broken.

SE does alot of fixes for nothing imo they have 3 really broken jobs and they just keep breaking them..


THF: Needs more SATA dmg seeing they nerfed tp, SATA should be done from the front for good enough dmg to have atleast 1 thf in all alliences.

DRK: All they need to do is make drk a full DD or give it some suport abilitys that actually work and are needed i.e refresh, who the fuck needs a rdm without it.. The job would be for the most part worthless(just like drk wow).

DRG: Now that drg can have their wyvrens out 99% of the time make them stronger and ignore monsters def(like rng used to) and evasion but have a dmg cap(seeing they don't have gear it wont be a problem) So using a drg on a HNM would be acceptable.


This nerf did nothing to war/nin and mnk while it was just another nerf for nin, SE really hates nin imo, they think their "oh so powerfull" cause of bitch ass plds bitching about nin taking 0dmg then /nin and tank even better and SE gives them more shit and nerfs nin yet again, GG SE GFG

[Maxxthepenguin]

Thief wasn't the weakest DoT job in the game. But...they might be now...

Yes they were... toss a THF and any other job with similarly priced equipment in a party, fight something not piercing weak, and the other job will have more DoT. THF is best at controlling enmity, not DDing.

You know we have healing mages, damage mages, support mages, but only 1 kind of melee... Melee Deal dmg thats it.. Drk should be the rdm of melee, thf the brd of melee, and sam the smn of melee etc, each bringing something diffrent to the party. Now that would be cool if thf could SATA from the front all the time and 98% of all drks spells weren't worthless. and some jobs weren't just plain broken.

SE does alot of fixes for nothing imo they have 3 really broken jobs and they just keep breaking them..


THF: Needs more SATA dmg seeing they nerfed tp, SATA should be done from the front for good enough dmg to have atleast 1 thf in all alliences.

DRK: All they need to do is make drk a full DD or give it some suport abilitys that actually work and are needed i.e refresh, who the fuck needs a rdm without it.. The job would be for the most part worthless(just like drk wow).

DRG: Now that drg can have their wyvrens out 99% of the time make them stronger and ignore monsters def(like rng used to) and evasion but have a dmg cap(seeing they don't have gear it wont be a problem) So using a drg on a HNM would be acceptable.


This nerf did nothing to war/nin and mnk while it was just another nerf for nin, SE really hates nin imo, they think their "oh so powerfull" cause of bitch ass plds bitching about nin taking 0dmg then /nin and tank even better and SE gives them more shit and nerfs nin yet again, GG SE GFG

THF, DRK, DRG are all simply harder to play then MNK and WAR, they aren't half as bad as you make them out to be (though MNK and WAR are more powerful, its not by that huge of a margin.) Just because you don't know how to use them doesn't mean others don't.

[layoneil]

THF, DRK, DRG are all simply harder to play then MNK and WAR, they aren't half as bad as you make them out to be (though MNK and WAR are more powerful, its not by that huge of a margin.) Just because you don't know how to use them doesn't mean others don't.

harder = more effort.

if you need more effort to produce similar results that's one of the definitions of something being bad.

[Maxxthepenguin]

THF, DRK, DRG are all simply harder to play then MNK and WAR, they aren't half as bad as you make them out to be (though MNK and WAR are more powerful, its not by that huge of a margin.) Just because you don't know how to use them doesn't mean others don't.

harder = more effort.

if you need more effort to produce similar results that's one of the definitions of something being bad.

Harder as in playing it in a party. WAR/NINs don't need to worry about much, just keeping zerk and agressor up, warcrying occasionally, and saving ass with voke once in a while. THF, DRK, and DRG are more technical but are NOT slackers.

[Onizuka]

THF, DRK, DRG are all simply harder to play then MNK and WAR, they aren't half as bad as you make them out to be (though MNK and WAR are more powerful, its not by that huge of a margin.) Just because you don't know how to use them doesn't mean others don't.

LMFAO! So now i don't know how to play.. give me a fucking break..

So all drgs suck the job is just fine..r-i-g-h-t get off SE's nuts for christs sake it's disgusting..

1: How much magic do you use in a party? Cause you doing more dmg than war/nin all while casting spells.. is that fantasic or what! GG you must be a pro
2: What lvl is your war? presonally i never thought of war to be an easy job but hey im also not Maxx the magnificent
3: Sendoh said it all if you cant get that then you have more problems than i ever imagined..

[Eaglestrike]

TP burn was about doing damage fast and/or gaining tp fast. Thief was able to compete when geared/merited because nothing can out-gain our tp, despite low dmg per swing returns. We then load in Hecatomb and our DE's aren't really that weak. Add on two attacks with 150ish dmg weapons (what SA and TA does to your weapon as thf/) once a minute and thief was up there. Even with only using 5% haste (panther and homam legs) and 1 NQ hecatomb (gloves) I could outparse many jobs (Non Ridill/joy wars, non fully merited and BB'd monks, nothing else was much trouble). I wasn't near completion in gear either. We just got a 10% nerf in tp gain, most other jobs didn't get nearly that much.

I welcome the increased tp spread, but tp floor nerf =

[jerkbox]

Is there a minigame that lets DRK and DRG auto-attack harder that we don't know about? How much HARDER CAN YOU AUTO-ATTACK and watch a number get to 100% before you press a macro? hahaha......

at least WAR can blink tank.

[kareface]

It's 4.5 when you Dual Wield. It's 4.66% single wield. At least 4.66% is the least amount of tp anyone will receive as my 150 damage dagger gives me that when Dual Wielding.

I assume you mean delay? 4.5 maybe the floor then, I will have to test it with some low delay daggers. 4.66% one handed I don't think is the floor tho. Because thats about what you should be getting from a 150 delay weapon. Remember, 5.0 tp return is from a 180 delay weapon and 6.1 from a 277. So that's about right. I would like to know what daggers you tested this with.

Subnote: There is an emergency maintenance today. I wonder if changes will be made to the TP system again.

Ninja Edit: I'm a moron. 4.5 can't be the floor. I know because i was getting less then that eariler today. My tp return with .65 dual wield with 2x227 katanas was 4.35-4.45 per swing. With the dualwield bonus my base delay is 147.55, in otherwords less then the delay of your dagger. So 4.5 is not the new floor and it could possibly be lower. I'll have to test it with 201 delay katanas after the server comes back up.