Tests regarding delay cap

[Nny]

UPDATEEEEE:

Test#6: Great Katana
http://misc.selftitled.net/delayvideos/ ... aDelay.avi

~45% haste in gear, SV March*2, Haste Spell = ~100% haste

Delay = roughly 120 delay (5 attack rounds in 10 seconds)

420 * .3 = 126 delay with 70% haste

Too double check that it was ~120 delay, I broke the video down inside Adobe Premiere and make marks each time I swong my GK, and it was 66 average frames per swing (or 132 delay. Please note that frames per swing isn't an accurate way to calculate delay, due to the fact that animation different then actual delay).

So actually, it's not a delay cap, rather the haste cap on melee attacks is +70%, and I'm 99%+ certain on that now.

OLD INFO:

(Note: The formulas of calculating the delays from haste equipment is currently slightly off, since I did it the quick way)

All Marches with Faerie Piccolo. Under the assumption that each march is ~10% haste and spell is ~15%.

Each video is roughly 800-900 KB, encoded in Divx 5.12.

Test#1: Great Axe
Right Click, Save Target As to view video

~36% haste in gear, SV March*2, Haste spell = ~91% haste

504 * .09 = 45.36

Delay = roughly 150 delay (4 attack rounds in 10 seconds)

Test#2: Beestinger
Right Click, Save Target As to view video

~21% haste in gear, NQ March *2, Spell = ~56% haste

150 * .44 = 66

Delay = roughly 66 delay (9 attack rounds in 10 seconds)

Test#3: Platoon Dagger + Beestinger
Right Click, Save Target As to view video

DWIV + Suppanomimi + AF1 Body = ~45% haste

~21% haste in gear, NQ March*2, Haste Spell = ~56% haste

(300 * .55) * .44 = 72.6

Delay = roughly 75 delay (8 attack rounds in 10 seconds)

Test#4: Seiyru's Sword
Right Click, Save Target As to view video

~27% haste in gear, NQ March*2, Haste Spell = ~62% haste

240 * .38 = 91.2

Delay = roughly 100 delay (6 attack rounds in 10 seconds)

Test#5: Maneater
Right Click, Save Target As to view video

~27% haste in gear, NQ March*2, Haste Spell = ~62% haste

288 * .38 = 109.44

Delay = roughly 100 delay (6 attack rounds in 10 seconds)

There was a key difference between Seiyru's Sword and Maneater. Seiyru's Sword was nearly starting another attack (It had a couple frames of attacking again, I figure too soon to call a seventh attack round), Maneater just was hitting the mob at the 10 second mark. So, I'm sure Maneater is ~110 wheras Seiyru's Sword is ~100.

My Current Hypothesis:

There are three seperate TP formulas. 481+ delay weapons have a different forumla then 180-480 delay weapons, and 180 delay weapons don't even have a formula, they're just simply capped. That then applies to delay formula.

481+ delay weapons have a delay cap of 150
150-480 delay weapons have a delay cap of 100*
180 and below weapons have a delay cap of 50

The one fact that we can pull away with though, is that when dual wielding, the cap is on the total delay, not seperate for each weapon.

*A while ago, I tested Hundred Fists with a 366 delay Staff and also got a 100 delay cap

Accompany videos to come soon.

[Lockecole]

Wait...so Haste only caps out on recasts, not weapon delay? (Sorry if its real obvious with your findings...Im super tired and just skimmed over the numbers)

Edit:

The one fact that we can pull away with though, is that when dual wielding, the cap is on the total delay, not seperate for each weapon.

So dual katanas on NIN have a cap of 100 delay combined?...thats insane.

[kareface]

Haste is capped at 50%

[Nny]

Haste is capped at 50%

No, it isn't. Test it yourself.

Wait...so Haste only caps out on recasts, not weapon delay? (Sorry if its real obvious with your findings...Im super tired and just skimmed over the numbers)

Haste isn't capped on recasts.

RECASTS are capped at 50%.

[Lockecole]

Haste is capped at 50%

No, it isn't. Test it yourself.

Wait...so Haste only caps out on recasts, not weapon delay? (Sorry if its real obvious with your findings...Im super tired and just skimmed over the numbers)

Haste isn't capped on recasts.

RECASTS are capped at 50%.

Sorry thats what I meant. I meant Haste only caps out on recasts @50%, not delay. I assumed the same was true of delay, since just about everything caps out at 50% (-physical damage, etc). I will admit I've never tested or seen a test prior to this, and I definately notice a difference when a BRD Soul Voice Marches + Haste gear + spell on NIN. So makes sense.

[Heian]

Haste is capped at 50%

Is Hundred Fists the only exception to this? I was told it came out to 80% Haste, but I am not a MNK so don't hold me to it.

Also seems like post TP patch that all they did was re-arange the TP floor and TP of weapons. With Dual Weild being the deciding factor in TP gain for NINs and /NIN jobs. Thats all I can figure from everyone elses data and my own.

[Nny]

Haste is capped at 50%

Is Hundred Fists the only exception to this? I was told it came out to 80% Haste, but I am not a MNK so don't hold me to it.

Haste. Is. Not. Capped. Hundred Fist, I hypothesise, works in the way that it brings your delay to it's capped. (See my post for my example)

There is a very clear difference between having 50% haste, and having 91% haste. Nearly a 2 second difference.

Again, test it yourself. People are stating that there's a 50% haste cap because they read it on a forum. OH SNAP IT'S A FACT.

[kareface]

Your numbers are wrong, I just did some testing myself. One sec with results:

[Lockecole]

Your numbers are wrong, I just did some testing myself. One sec with results:

What's there to debate, 50% Haste and 91% Haste is a HUGE difference, Ive seen it for sure on NIN without even manually testing. All you need to know is that 50% isnt cap on delay and the rest is up for grabs. Not that any of this is realistic except for the possibility of double march/double minuet + Haste + insane haste gear, or the rare occurence of Soul Voice.

[Nny]

First post edited with video proof.

Also, it might be a ~70% haste cap. The only test that had a haste number well above 70 was the first test with Soil Voice, which was at ~70-71% drop in delay.

I can get about +26% more haste on my NIN pretty easily, I can fuck around with 150 delay daggers with 80-90%+ haste later.

But, it's not a 50% haste cap. Plain and simple.

[kareface]

I was testing what you said with SV match and haste spell. With equp from nin and latent ring I was able to get about the same figures. I used the bases that 60 delay = 1 second, 600 delay = 10 seconds. 600 / how many swings in 10 seconds. I coudln't test any 2h'ed weapons but I think the delay cap for dual wielding 150 delay daggers with .65 dual wield and haste (SV march 20%, haste spell 15%, +20% from ring, 3% from head hands and gloves, 6% from belt) I was able to get below a 50 delay with the daggers. I attacked 14 times in 10 seconds. I need to get fraps and try again in 2hrs.

[Lockecole]

I was testing what you said with SV match and haste spell. With equp from nin and latent ring I was able to get about the same figures. I used the bases that 60 delay = 1 second, 600 delay = 10 seconds. 600 / how many swings in 10 seconds. I coudln't test any 2h'ed weapons but I think the delay cap for dual wielding 150 delay daggers with .65 dual wield and haste (SV march 20%, haste spell 15%, +20% from ring, 3% from head hands and gloves, 6% from belt) I was able to get below a 50 delay with the daggers. I attacked 14 times in 10 seconds. I need to get fraps and try again in 2hrs.

Not that this is a who's right who's not argument, as we all just wanna get at the actual truth, but you're saying you agree with Nny that there isn't a 50% cap? Just wondering if we're all on the same page.

[kareface]

Yea, I just tryed it out. I thought there was for ever, but after playing around with it, I'd say otherwise.

p.s. It could of been changed in the update too

[Nny]

Ok, soul voice back up, just tested with +100% haste.

Test#6: Great Katana
http://misc.selftitled.net/delayvideos/ ... aDelay.avi

~45% haste in gear, SV March*2, Haste Spell = ~100% haste

Delay = roughly 120 delay (5 attack rounds in 10 seconds)

420 * .3 = 126 delay with 70% haste

Too double check that it was ~120 delay, I broke the video down inside Adobe Premiere and make marks each time I swong my GK, and it was 66 average frames per swing (or 132 delay. Please note that frames per swing isn't an accurate way to calculate delay, due to the fact that animation different then actual delay).

So actually, it's not a delay cap, rather the haste cap on melee attacks is +70%, and I'm 99%+ certain on that now.

Also, I really doubt this update changed it. Like Locke said, there was a very clear difference between march*2, and SV march*2 (That pushes it over 50%+) pre-update.

First post updated too.

[Onizuka]

Wow who would think everybody and their mother knows the haste cap is 50%.. well now we know it's not >.>

BG forums investigates dun dun dun 8)

[Krandor]

I'm not really sure of the significance of this but cool test regardless.

[layoneil]

the significance is that melee should not waste their gil on more than 70% in Haste gear LOL

[Krandor]

Can any melee job other than NIN break 70% haste though, and even then can NIN break it without going into red HP? I'm assuming Nny was using NIN for this test since they get the latent 4% ring and the 20% earring.

[epigram]

It looks like war/drg can have about 40% haste:

Panzer +1
Rune Chopper
Dusk Gloves +1
Wyvern Earring (5% haste for /nin)
Haste Belt
Byakko's Haidate
Unicorn Leggings +1 (not sure how latent works though)

[Delekii]

Well in a standard 2BRD RDM pt, Melee's will get 35% haste from spells alone, so it can become a factor - especially with the new 5% haste helm on the way from the patch i guess. Only need another 35% to "cap".