Mog Locker Details

[layoneil]

There aren't more than 80 items in an AH list? Seriously, 80 items is not a limitation. This whole "limitation" thing was started by some idiot talking about shit he had no idea of in an interview.

you never notice how long it takes to load the long AH lists?

they don't operate the same way.

[RKenshin]

Wait, there's a second expansion?

I've been lazy and skimming over most of the expansion info, but I don't remember reading anything past a first expansion... I already expanded it once to 40 spaces, but I suppose you can do it again to 50?

Come to think of it it does make sense, I talked to the NPC again a few days after getting the first and he gave me this speech about not being able to get another expansion while my last is still processing or something. I thought maybe it was just poorly worded, but looks like it wasn't...

In either case, pretty sure that means you have to wait until next conquest. ><

Anyone know what the fee is for that upgrade? I've been turning all my IS into currency and selling it, thinking IS was useless otherwise.;


EDIT: Oops, didn't see this post until now.

Err... So uh, do people not know anything or remember anything about why inventory can't be expanded?

Simple explanation... PS2 has memory limitations that can't be expanded in any way at tis time. (duh?)

Details... SE is not going to waste a good deal of PS2 memory (yes, it takes quite a bit of memory) on extra inventory space when there are infinately better things that could be added to the game that benefit everyone.

If you haven't already noticed, Mog Locker does not use any PS2 or PC memory. This is also why, unlike your inventory/storage/mog safe, your mog locker will not save how it's sorted. Assuming you don't DC somehow, your inventory/mog safe/storage will always be sorted and in the order you left it in, because this information is saved on your hard drive (I think every time you zone or xx minutes go by). You can see this if you ever log on someone else's account, or on your own account from a different computer; everything would be unsorted. But, this doesn't apply for the mog locker.

What more do you want? Sure, it's not the best it could be, but at least they're trying. Or would you prefer to have nothing at all?

Of course Mog Locker uses PC and PS2 memory. Even if it's true what you say about the file being on your hard drive, it still uses PS2 and PC memory when they LOAD the file. Just like with storage, just like with inventory, just like with mog safe.

That being said, do you mean you can go edit your hard drive files and give yourself items you never acquired before? Maybe I'mnot understanding you correctly.

Anyway, the limitation as far as I understood it is that the data for more than 80 items cannot be loaded at the same time. If that's true, the same will be true of Mog Locker. The way I understand is that they can add an infinite number of storage mechanisms, all of which are capped at 80 items.

The actual items in your storage/inventory/mog safe/mog locker are server side... You really think SE would make that client side? As you mentioned, if it was server side people could just "give" themself weapons by editting their FF files. Almost everything that's important and matters is server side, and is not stored on your memory.

Move around between PCs or log on other people's characters, or desipher your user files... All the proof is easy to access. Personally I move my user files back and forth between my laptop and PC all the time, to keep macros/map markers/item lists/AH lists all updated and the same no matter which comp I play on.

Not to mention, I have access to my account along with around 10 other friend's accounts. If I log onto a friend's account, how on earth would my computer know what is supposed to be in their inventory? It doesn't, the server tells the computer what to show there. The actual memory files of what's stored there are all client side.

To my memory, there are only a few things stored client side. And that's Macros, AH sorts, some Configuration settings, text color settings, Map Markers, and the sort of your inventory/mog/storage. This does not include anything about mog locker.

[Awoir]

I got my first upgrade on Saturday. Wouldn't let me upgrade again right away, talked to him again on Sunday and he gave me the option. I have not beat any Assaults yet so you don't have to rank up to get the next upgrade. My guess would that you have to wait for a conquest tally after the first upgrade to get the second or possibly just the next earth day. I can't say conclusively because of when I did my upgrades.

Cost on 2nd upgrade (40->50) is 2 Imperial Gold Pieces.

Useful information bolded so people that are lazy can find it easier.

On first page

[divisortheory]

Anyway, the limitation as far as I understood it is that the data for more than 80 items cannot be loaded at the same time. If that's true, the same will be true of Mog Locker. The way I understand is that they can add an infinite number of storage mechanisms, all of which are capped at 80 items.

There aren't more than 80 items in an AH list? Seriously, 80 items is not a limitation. This whole "limitation" thing was started by some idiot talking about shit he had no idea of in an interview.

Auction House is a totally different thing lol. I don't know if you have a background in programming or not, but if you don't I can totally understand why it's easy to think "well AH displays more than 80, why can't mog safe?" It's easy for me to think that also, even though I do come from a software development background. But it's ALSO easy for me to see how they could be totally different, one being limited and the other not being limited.

Am I saying the limitation is permanent and not even able to be worked around? Probably not, I'm sure there's SOMETHING they could do to fix the 80 item limitation. But it might be so compliacted due to some design/architectural decision that they chose years ago when FFXI was in its infancy that it's easier for them to just implement new Mog Locker/Storage/Mog Safe type items that are each capped at 80.

[aurik]

Anyway, the limitation as far as I understood it is that the data for more than 80 items cannot be loaded at the same time. If that's true, the same will be true of Mog Locker. The way I understand is that they can add an infinite number of storage mechanisms, all of which are capped at 80 items.

There aren't more than 80 items in an AH list? Seriously, 80 items is not a limitation. This whole "limitation" thing was started by some idiot talking about shit he had no idea of in an interview.

Are you an experienced software developer? Do you have experience developing for PS2? If not, you don't have enough information to judge whether it's BS or not, so STFU.

The fact that Mog Safe is capped at 80, Storage is capped at 80, and inventory is capped at 60 + room for 15 temp items (75), leads me to believe there is probably some real architectural reason that they don't expand these beyond 80.

[NynJa]

Certain aspects of it suck, but I've NOT complained about "almost every aspect of the game."

You have you fucking moron

You've bitched about sea, you bitched about cop, you bitched about ToAU, dynamis, cop dynamis, xp areas, lack of xp areas, new xp areas, merits, merit caps, lack of merits, new jobs, lack of jobs, lack of content, too much content, timesinks (YET THAT IS WHAT A FUCKING MMO IS SUPPOSED TO BE)...you've bitched so fucking much you're contradicting yourself just so you have more to bitch at.


SHUT THE FUCK UP AND QUIT FFXI, IF NOT LIFE.
ninja edited more shit in

[Siatdiat]

There aren't more than 80 items in an AH list? Seriously, 80 items is not a limitation. This whole "limitation" thing was started by some idiot talking about shit he had no idea of in an interview.

you never notice how long it takes to load the long AH lists?

they don't operate the same way.

Yeah I want to wait the amount of time it takes for an AH menu to load to look through my inventory.

[Rascio]

Certain aspects of it suck, but I've NOT complained about "almost every aspect of the game."

You have you fucking moron

You've bitched about sea, you bitched about cop, you bitched about ToAU, dynamis, cop dynamis, xp areas, lack of xp areas, new xp areas...you've bitched so fucking much you're contradicting yourself just so you have more to bitch at.


SHUT THE FUCK UP AND QUIT FFXI, IF NOT LIFE.

this made me lol

[RKenshin]

I got my first upgrade on Saturday. Wouldn't let me upgrade again right away, talked to him again on Sunday and he gave me the option. I have not beat any Assaults yet so you don't have to rank up to get the next upgrade. My guess would that you have to wait for a conquest tally after the first upgrade to get the second or possibly just the next earth day. I can't say conclusively because of when I did my upgrades.

Cost on 2nd upgrade (40->50) is 2 Imperial Gold Pieces.

Useful information bolded so people that are lazy can find it easier.

On first page

Thanks, sorry I must've missed it the first time.

Since I editted my last post pretty late to include a response I missed, I'm just going to add the edit onto this post as well... Since I'm thinking that it will otherwise go unread with the start of this new page. Same stuff as last thread:
>
>

EDIT: Oops, didn't see this post until now.

Err... So uh, do people not know anything or remember anything about why inventory can't be expanded?

Simple explanation... PS2 has memory limitations that can't be expanded in any way at tis time. (duh?)

Details... SE is not going to waste a good deal of PS2 memory (yes, it takes quite a bit of memory) on extra inventory space when there are infinately better things that could be added to the game that benefit everyone.

If you haven't already noticed, Mog Locker does not use any PS2 or PC memory. This is also why, unlike your inventory/storage/mog safe, your mog locker will not save how it's sorted. Assuming you don't DC somehow, your inventory/mog safe/storage will always be sorted and in the order you left it in, because this information is saved on your hard drive (I think every time you zone or xx minutes go by). You can see this if you ever log on someone else's account, or on your own account from a different computer; everything would be unsorted. But, this doesn't apply for the mog locker.

What more do you want? Sure, it's not the best it could be, but at least they're trying. Or would you prefer to have nothing at all?

Of course Mog Locker uses PC and PS2 memory. Even if it's true what you say about the file being on your hard drive, it still uses PS2 and PC memory when they LOAD the file. Just like with storage, just like with inventory, just like with mog safe.

That being said, do you mean you can go edit your hard drive files and give yourself items you never acquired before? Maybe I'mnot understanding you correctly.

Anyway, the limitation as far as I understood it is that the data for more than 80 items cannot be loaded at the same time. If that's true, the same will be true of Mog Locker. The way I understand is that they can add an infinite number of storage mechanisms, all of which are capped at 80 items.

The actual items in your storage/inventory/mog safe/mog locker are server side... You really think SE would make that client side? As you mentioned, if it was server side people could just "give" themself weapons by editting their FF files. Almost everything that's important and matters is server side, and is not stored on your memory.

Move around between PCs or log on other people's characters, or desipher your user files... All the proof is easy to access. Personally I move my user files back and forth between my laptop and PC all the time, to keep macros/map markers/item lists/AH lists all updated and the same no matter which comp I play on.

Not to mention, I have access to my account along with around 10 other friend's accounts. If I log onto a friend's account, how on earth would my computer know what is supposed to be in their inventory? It doesn't, the server tells the computer what to show there. The actual memory files of what's stored there are all client side.

To my memory, there are only a few things stored client side. And that's Macros, AH sorts, some Configuration settings, text color settings, Map Markers, and the sort of your inventory/mog/storage. This does not include anything about mog locker.

[divisortheory]

Of course I don't think they would store stuff client side, that's why I was asking for clarification lol. Anyway, what you described just says to me something about their caching mechanism. The main point of my post was that no matter if they have a file on the client or not, the data is still stored in memory, that's just how computers work. Even if they read the info from the file, the info still goes into the computer's memory before it can be accessed by the program.

[RKenshin]

Oh, sorry if that sounded harsh, just read it over and realized how it looked. But yeah.. I just mean the actual data is stored server side.

[Hirronimus]

Seriously. Who cares where it's stored. I got 50 more inventory slots at the cost of gaining 2-3 merits and 5 mins travel to get my items out! I'm fucking happy!

[FFXIFlux]

There aren't more than 80 items in an AH list? Seriously, 80 items is not a limitation. This whole "limitation" thing was started by some idiot talking about shit he had no idea of in an interview.

you never notice how long it takes to load the long AH lists?

they don't operate the same way.

It takes a long time to load my inventory after I zone too. Step out of your mog house and open equipment and you'll get a blank list and half your slots will appear empty for a few seconds. Step into your mog house and you can't /bank or /storage for a few seconds as it loads.

There is a difference between AH and safe as you never get a "attempt failed" opening your inventory, and of course your inventory doesn't have past sale prices.

I think the mog locker is a special form of AH/delivery box in that it's on a different server or database than the standard equipment. If there is an "architectual limitation" it is not on the PS2 side, but one of their own creation on the server side that they didn't want to spend the time fixing with a new database or server, but they finally did to introduce mog lockers. If they did it right the mog locker should be expandable to any size. Lord knows how much I've crammed into my delivery box at one time

Are you an experienced software developer? Do you have experience developing for PS2? If not, you don't have enough information to judge whether it's BS or not, so STFU.

By your criteria, I do have enough information.

[aurik]

Sorry, I don't buy for a second that you develop network games on the PS2. You're far too stupid for that.

[divisortheory]

If there is an "architectual limitation" it is not on the PS2 side, but one of their own creation on the server side that they didn't want to spend the time fixing with a new database or server, but they finally did to introduce mog lockers. If they did it right the mog locker should be expandable to any size. Lord knows how much I've crammed into my delivery box at one time

Can you give me an architectural design/description of the quest/trigger system while you're at it? You seem to have intricate knowledge of the workings of the server side code.

[aurik]

I hope you're kidding Divisortheory: from his "theory" on how the mog locker is implemented I've come to the conclusion that he doesn't have a clue and is merely talking out of his ass.

[divisortheory]

I hope you're kidding Divisortheory: from his "theory" on how the mog locker is implemented I've come to the conclusion that he doesn't have a clue and is merely talking out of his ass.

Yes, I was being facetious lol

[FFXIFlux]

I hope you're kidding Divisortheory: from his "theory" on how the mog locker is implemented I've come to the conclusion that he doesn't have a clue and is merely talking out of his ass.

Well Mr. Brain Surgeon lets put it another way.

Mog Lockers

The development team is aware that players have been experiencing difficulties finding room for excess equipment and has been working on a solution.

Limiting the amount of space available for storing items was part of the original game design, however the sheer volume of new equipment and items introduced through various updates and events has overloaded the humble Mog Safe to an unexpected degree.

Expanding available storage space requires overcoming several problems such as increasing the amount of savable character data, as well as considering the extra memory for displaying client-based information.

With the release of Treasures of Aht Urhgan, the development team is pleased to announce that the issues concerning character data and display memory have been solved with the introduction of a separate storage facility--the Mog Locker.


The Mog Locker is scheduled to become available in the early stages of the new Treasures of Aht Urhgan missions. The availability of a new storage facility will have a direct effect on Vana’diel’s economy, and so to help balance this new element we have introduced the concept of a locker “lease.”

So, since we know the client can display a large number of items at once based on the AH, which would you think was the real problem?

FFXI Stratics: Are there any plans for more increased storage for Mog House or storage?

Sage Sundi: That's similar to the graphics in that it's a limitation due to the PS2 memory and we cannot expand too far. We're looking into new methods right now.

Matt Hilton: The problem is expanding the storage or slots for over 1.6 million characters would definitely cause a large strain on our current systems because the PS2 isn't aging well. We are looking into ways to relieve the stress on players' inventory as seen by the new NPC storage additions in the last patch.

The PS2 has 40 megs of memory if you add the sound and video, but how does expanding storage space for 1.6 million characters strain your PS2? Obviously it doesn't. It's just a strain for them because now they have 1.6 million * 50 more items they need to keep track of on their side.

[BRP]

Flux, shut the hell up. I hate agreeing with Nynja, but all you do is bitch. Why bother playing this game at all?

[aurik]

Disclaimer, I do have experience developing for the PS2.

You have no idea what they mean by "limitation". Hell, the PR person probably doesn't understand what he means by limitation. All he knows is that their engineers have looked into the situation of limited inventory space and for some reason can't go beyond 80.

There's a huge difference between looking at AH listing and viewing your local safe. For one, the AH listings, you simply load a template of the item; the server doesn't have to load up the heaps of extra data that comes with the item, values like when and how the item was created along with potentially a history of transactions that involved the item, possible signature tags on the item, charge status and cooldown timer for enchanted items, et cetera.

When you query the delivery box: you connect to the delivery server, and perform a bunch of pops on your delivery queue to move items from the ether into your box. How is this in any way like the mog locker system? It's not similar at all; the most basic difference being the delivery system is sequential access, while your mog locker is random access. I can't believe you even draw this parallel, it makes you look like a dumbass.

Finally, you have no clue how the system even works clientside. Like someone suggested a long while back, maybe they have it set up in a way that you have a unique filehandle for each item that loads in your mog locker, and maybe the maximum number of filehandles guaranteed to be free during the operation is 80? It's possible, it sounds like a plausible implementation, and if not with file handles per-say, they're most likely dealing with the same situation of rationing a resource that they can only guarantee 80 instances will be available at any given time.

You can't take what Sage Sundi or any of their PR people say literally. They're PR people, business people, not developers. However what they say has the grain of truth; obviously they've overcome the technical challenge of globally saving 1.6m x 50 additional objects. However, the obstacle of unifying all those additional objects into a single unified inventory remains, and they indicate that it's due to limitations on representing that data on the PS2. Is that reasonable? Yes. Just because you can't understand exactly why, doesn't mean that it isn't true.

PS. Thanks for the easily google-able statistic about the PS2 memory.