Blue Mage: Best thread ever

[Janice]

Morrigan's Robe is better cause you have it and other people don't. Numbers are irrelevant.

[karril]

We need a Kuno card that reads, "This isn't the time for rocket science, just tell me whats better and leave the math at home."

QFT. Half the time I read the math posts I'm even more confused. I just skip them usually now.

I think its amazingly awesome we have people that can figure out the exact math involved in things behind the game.

Its great...really.


Now if only we could get them to dumb it down sometimes so we could understand what the hell they mean >.>

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

We need a Kuno card that reads, "This isn't the time for rocket science, just tell me whats better and leave the math at home."

QFT. Half the time I read the math posts I'm even more confused. I just skip them usually now.

I think its amazingly awesome we have people that can figure out the exact math involved in things behind the game.

Its great...really.


Now if only we could get them to dumb it down sometimes so we could understand what the hell they mean >.>

Dumbed down it's something like this: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nguin/frip.jpg

STR makes things do more damage.

[VZX]

We need a Kuno card that reads, "This isn't the time for rocket science, just tell me whats better and leave the math at home."

QFT. Half the time I read the math posts I'm even more confused. I just skip them usually now.

I think its amazingly awesome we have people that can figure out the exact math involved in things behind the game.

Its great...really.


Now if only we could get them to dumb it down sometimes so we could understand what the hell they mean >.>

Dumbed down it's something like this: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nguin/frip.jpg

STR makes things do more damage.

XD

If + - * / is rocket science, I don't know what science isn't rocket for you

[Volken]

why would you answer an exaggeration seriously

[Sargas]

edit: Anyone know if BLU/BLM with elemental seal lowing sticks decently on kirin or JOL?

Why would you want lowing on kirin or JOL? The description is wrong, it doesn't actually stop HP regen, but it does act as a TP (and MP I think?) poison. Basically lowing is plague, not disease like the help text would indicate.

Disease won't stop HP auto-regen either. It stops an unaggroed mob from recovering HP (10% per tick) in the same way a DoT will, but without doing damage. Plague should have the same effect too on top of the MP/TP drain.

[Ethican]

Frenetic Rip and Disseverment are both 20%DEX 20%STR mods

Ok now decoding what i posted for you (i tend to leave small math out, bad math degree habit of mine ;p)

Ok So Morrigan's has 0 Skill and 8 STR so you get:

2 + Spells Mods

For AF Body you get:

4.05 + spell mods

Ok what this is is using just the stats from the bodies

Morrigan's:

D = [(BLU Skill(0)x.11)x2] + STR(8)/4 + Spells Mods
which yields 0 + 2 (8*.25 or 8/4 whichever way you look at it) + spell mods

AF:

D = [(BLU Skill(15)x.11)x2] + STR(3)/4 + Spells Mods
which yields 3.35 + .75 + spell mods

[quote:44990]Frenetic Rip/Disseverment

Morrigan's 2 + 8*.2 = 3.6
AF: 4.05 + 3*.2 + 3*.2 = 5.25

Ok the reason there is a 3*.2 twice is because they are different calc

DEX*.2 and STR*.2 which are both +3 on AF body[/quote:44990]


I'm not trying to nitpick or anything, this being my first post, but
3.35 + .75 = 4.1 , not 4.05, so I'm not sure how that effects your calculations and it was a simple error. but in the grand scheme of things AF body seems to be a house for blu.

[Repairs]

Not sure if using basic assumptions/formulas provides us with much realistic evidence? (testing with morrigans robe, yes please!). Also, looks like the formulas are missing the fStr part of the equation, which is a bigger difference (since they do not cap).

Example:
Disseverment/FrenRip:
Average Imp vit = 60
Base blu skill = 292
Base str 113
Base dex 82

D = [(BLU Skill x.11)x2 + 3] + fStr * mods (str*.25 + dex.25)

AF = [(307 * .11) * 2 + 3= 70.54 (floor?)] + (116-60 = 56) * (116*.25= 29) + (85*.25 = 21.25)
= (70.54 + 56 ) * (29 + 21.25)
= 126 * 50
= 6300

Morrigan = [(292 * .11)*2 +3 = 67.24(floor?) + (121-60) * (121*.25 = 30.25) + (82*.25 = 20.5)
= (67.24 + 61) * (30.25 + 20.5)
= 128 * 50
= 6400

Edit: fixed formulas... note: if the listed formulas are correct blu skill is massively reduced (*.11), hence why I would believe that +8 str would be more useful for physical spells (fStr and mods -- not to mention the added accuracy, refresh, etc.).

[Repairs]

Also, for any blu that has done 1050+ disevernments on imps: could you please post a screen shot and possibly list your weapon and stats (str and dex)?

I would really like to improve my damage, and with over 1000+ CA disevernments tracked, i have never broken 1025...

Thanks,

[Tonko]

I'll look through some screenshots when I get home, but I've done over 1300 Diss after CA Savage for Distortion on the Khimera imps.

[VZX]

Not sure if using basic assumptions/formulas provides us with much realistic evidence? (testing with morrigans robe, yes please!). Also, looks like the formulas are missing the fStr part of the equation, which is a bigger difference (since they do not cap).

Example:
Disseverment/FrenRip:
Average Imp vit = 60
Base blu skill = 292
Base str 113
Base dex 82

D = [(BLU Skill x.11)x2 + 3] + fStr * mods (str*.25 + dex.25)

AF = [(307 * .11) * 2 + 3= 70.54 (floor?)] + (116-60 = 56) * (116*.25= 29) + (85*.25 = 21.25)
= (70.54 + 56 ) * (29 + 21.25)
= 126 * 50
= 6300
...

Wait... why multiply?

[Repairs]

VZX : Took from your web?

D Value?[D+SV+WS Correction]×Multiplier

Tonko: sweets! Please post some screens!! If so, I would guess that physical damage gets a bonus from skillchain??

[Kaslo]

VZX : Took from your web?

D Value?[D+SV+WS Correction]×Multiplier

Tonko: sweets! Please post some screens!! If so, I would guess that physical damage gets a bonus from skillchain??

did you read the explaination of it?

WSC = Mods
Multiplier = TP Multiplier

So for your calcs it should be a + and not a *

Also, STR/4 is the approximation for fSTR. Once again read the VZX page.

[Repairs]

Still learning and misread... thank you.

fStr: do I need to divide my example by 4? 116-60 = 56 /4 = 14; 121-60 = 61 /4 = 15.25??

AF = [(307 * .11) * 2 + 3= 70.54 (floor?)] + (116-60 = 56/4 = 14) + (116*.25= 29) + (85*.25 = 21.25)
= (70.54 + 14 )+ (29 + 21.25)
= 94.54 + 50.25
= 144.79

Morrigan = [(292 * .11)*2 +3 = 67.24(floor?) + (121-60=61/4=15.25) + (121*.25 = 30.25) + (82*.25 = 20.5)
= (67.24 + 15.25) + (30.25 + 20.5)
= 82.49 + 50.75
= 133.24

Edit: couldn't access VZX site.

Tonko: just came to my mind, were those really high Disevernments before the burst affinity/disevernment "fix"?

[Kaslo]

fSTR is hard to calculate with base stats but, for general calcs every 4 STR will increase SV by 1 hence the STR/4 calc for gear by gear changes.

wiki states this tho:
When STR-VIT value is high, fSTR can be approximated by (your STR - monster VIT+4)/4

which is prob the best description I can give.

EDIT: The biggest thing is learning where D value caps for each spell, cause then you would know when BLU Skill is better than STR.

[Repairs]

Cool, thanks Kaslo!

How did they test/figure out what the D cap was for spells under 60? ie. do I kill level 1 bunnies?
I guess because we don't get any more then 307 (310 in salvage) blu skill, we can't test fren rip/disevernment d cap?

But, if they normally cap @ 15 levels higher (approx 75 more blu skill). We get fren rip at 63 = 217 max blu skill + 75 = 292(which is my cap blu skill without afbody); so in theory I should be @ capped D for fren rip @ 292? Then test with 307?

[VZX]

Cool, thanks Kaslo!

How did they test/figure out what the D cap was for spells under 60? ie. do I kill level 1 bunnies?
I guess because we don't get any more then 307 (310 in salvage) blu skill, we can't test fren rip/disevernment d cap?

But, if they normally cap @ 15 levels higher (approx 75 more blu skill). We get fren rip at 63 = 217 max blu skill + 75 = 292(which is my cap blu skill without afbody); so in theory I should be @ capped D for fren rip @ 292? Then test with 307?

Not sure how do they test the D cap, but I think this is how they do it :
while naked:
Equip AF body
Equip STR+3 ring and DEX+3 ring

If there's no increase on your capped critical, your D is capped, if not then D is still not capped yet (from adding more blue magic skill)

[Repairs]

Even more questions... I would put this in the newbie section, but it still follows the trend of this thread...

I quickly redid my formula:
D = [(BLU Skill x.11)x2 + 3] + fStr (your STR - monster VIT+4)/4) + mods(str*.25 + dex*.25)

AF = [(307 * .11) * 2 + 3= 70.54 ] + (116- (60+4) = 52 = 52/4 = 13) + (116*.25= 29) + (85*.25 = 21.25)
= (70.54 + 13 + 29 + 21.25)
= 133.79

Morrigan = [(292 * .11)*2 +3 = 67.24) + (121-(60+4) = 57= 57/4=14.25) + (121*.25 = 30.25) + (82*.25 = 20.5)
= (67.24 + 14.25 + 30.25 + 20.5)
= 132.24

Would these numbers equate to per hit? ? 133.79 * 5 hits = 668.95? (max tracked NoCa Dis. = 780)
Edit: level correlation factor? But wouldn't that lower my damage?

Which part of the formula explains the many variances? Ie. my range of diservernment damage for 5 hits, for the same level mob, is pretty big ~ I mean the high ranges 737-780?

Thanks for your patience and understanding

[VZX]

Even more questions... I would put this in the newbie section, but it still follows the trend of this thread...

I quickly redid my formula:
D = [(BLU Skill x.11)x2 + 3] + fStr (your STR - monster VIT+4)/4) + mods(str*.25 + dex*.25)

AF = [(307 * .11) * 2 + 3= 70.54 ] + (116- (60+4) = 52 = 52/4 = 13) + (116*.25= 29) + (85*.25 = 21.25)
= (70.54 + 13 + 29 + 21.25)
= 133.79

Morrigan = [(292 * .11)*2 +3 = 67.24) + (121-(60+4) = 57= 57/4=14.25) + (121*.25 = 30.25) + (82*.25 = 20.5)
= (67.24 + 14.25 + 30.25 + 20.5)
= 132.24

Would these numbers equate to per hit? ? 133.79 * 5 hits = 668.95? (max tracked NoCa Dis. = 780)

Edit: level correlation factor? But wouldn't that lower my damage?

Your calculation is still inaccurate, because:
- F rip and Disseverment have STR_20% and DEX_20%, not STR_25% and DEX_25% secondary mod
- You forgot the level modifier on 2ndary modifier (i.e. floor[0.83*floor[STR*.20 + DEX *.20]]) (yes, you noticed the level correction factor)

and what you calculated is just base damage.
For F rip, the first hit TP multiplier is 1.36 (348/256 to be exact) and Disseverment's is 1.50 for the first hit.
The consecutive hits will have TP multiplier, presumably, 1.0

So for approximation of actual damage, you can do Base_Damage*348/256 + Base_Damage*2 for full hit F rip and Base_Damage*1.50 + Base_damage*4 for Disseverment

Which part of the formula explains the many variances? Ie. my range of diservernment damage for 5 hits, for the same level mob, is pretty big ~ I mean the high ranges 737-780?

Thanks for your patience and understanding

Most likely, blue magic skill act as "attack" when we cast physical blue magic spells. so if you have blue magic skill 269 and mob def is 350, then your Ratio is 269/350, with level correction etc, you'll plug the number into melee pDIF function and get the min/max multiplier (and there, you can find the possible range of your damage)

[Alistaire]

Anyone here notice with that new sash:

Ksi Sash
DEF:4 INT+5 MND+5
Salvage:
"Magic Atk. Bonus"+2
Blue Magic skill +3
Lv.75 MNK/WHM/BLM/RDM/PLD/BRD/
RNG/SMN/BLU/PUP RareExclusive

Blu can hit 310 skill in salvage? Next tier of damage according to the VZX page.