Blue Mage: Best thread ever

[LD]

....

Seriously? ._.

I mean, it's not that it doesn't make sense, but....Really?

What about HP & MP ratings? Those are at least comparable to a RDM, right?

[VZX]

My RNG/NIN has 59 base STR w/o STR merit, so has my BLU/NIN

No Idea on HP & MP
I'm sure HP we're not the lowest. My RNG/NIN has lower HP than my BLU/NIN at 75

EDIT : scratch that, BLM is F rank STR

[Kaslo]

Yeah but the reason our stats are all low is because our spells make up for it by adding certain stats.

[Pes]

....

Seriously? ._.

I mean, it's not that it doesn't make sense, but....Really?

What about HP & MP ratings? Those are at least comparable to a RDM, right?

An unmeritted Blu and Rdm of the same race and lvl have the exact same base hp and mp.
http://www.datasync.com/~dsmith/FFXIStats/

[Sho]

PUPs use Animators.... preventing them from using any throwing items. And there's only 4 ammo items, and 7 ranged items that they can equip.

PUP weren't supposed to have throwing, BLU were.

I see your blunt as ever still. Anyways I think the Chakram bit was a last minute ruse for BLU-- if we were to have throwing skill, SE would have fixed the problem over the course of a year and a half. Of course, SAM still have Throwing skill as well...

[Kaslo]

gotta land those pebbles!

[Sho]

gotta land those pebbles!

Throwing rocks is serious business.

[Delekii]

I want to ask a couple of questions that I am sure have been answered before, but I want a different kind of answer.

Doing searches on various BLU topics invariably leads to threads about soloing Imps, where people constantly claim "My Frips hit for ~600-700, Disseverments hit for ~900-1000, etc etc". I have only 2 BLU skill merits and 2 Physical Potency merits, as well as capped sword/crit and 1str, but I cant say that either of those spells come CLOSE to those kind of numbers, certainly not with any consistancy. Am I really going to see that kind of damage increase from merits? Am I just wearing too much accuracy? Do people really see average 600 rips on Imps or 900 Disseverments on Imps? I can't even say that my CA disseverments hit 900 on average on Imps..

Swords: Martial/Ifrit
Head: Optical
Neck: Chiv
Ear1: Loquac
Ear2: Minuet
Body: AF
Hands: Pallas
Ring1: Woodsman
Ring2: Rajas
Back: Amemet+1
Waist: Potent
Legs: Prince
Feet: Creek Clomps

Obviously Perdu will replace Martial when I rank up, and alky could replace Pallas if I could get the pop item to drop, but I cant imagine changing too much.. am I stacking too much acc? Are people who say they hit such high "averages" just full of shit?

[Teorem]

I asked/made a similar statement questioning just how accurate these claims were for average values a few months ago: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=17403&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=30 . Since then, the conclusion I made was yes, people were sort of stretching the numbers a bit, but not as much as I originally thought they were.

In fact, I just spent four hours in Caedarva tonight, with Frenetic Rip ranging about 400-600 damage (400-800 with a high of 983 using Chain Affinity) and Disseverment just a little higher running 400-800 (700ish and 900ish the two times I used it with Chain Affinity).

You'll see a noticeable increase in your damage as your invest in more merits. In my opinion, the biggest increases are going to come from Blue Magic Skill and Sword Skill (which allows you to swap out accuracy equipment for STR), and less--but still worthwhile--from Physical Potency. Enchainment will also increase your damage with the TP bonus.

As an anecdote, Physical Potency seems to only increase the base damage by 2, just from watching Head Butt damage on Imps using a accuracy-heavy setup while I was increasing these merits. I'm curious to see how the recent discussion on merits goes, to see if this is really the case or not.

Regarding equipment, the question is whether the lesser damage you're seeing is a result of missing hits in the spell (needs accuracy) or if the damage of each hit is itself low (needs STR/DEX). Assuming you're eating sushi, I would guess it's the latter and you can afford to lose some of the accuracy you're equipping. Off-hand:

- the Perdu Hanger will definitely be worthwhile to replace the Martial Anelace
- there was some previous discussion regarding Gigas bracelets for Frenetic Rip/Disseverment damage, but you'd probably want to compare the damage between Pallas/Alkyoneus' Bracelets against Creek Mitts
- use a Commander's Cape instead of the Amemet Mantle +1, if possible
- try swapping in a Flame Ring for the Woodsman
- try using a Warwolf Belt instead of the Potent Belt

I use:

+---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+   Head Butt       Poison Breath   
| Perdu Hanger  | Demon Slayer  | Trollbane     |               |   Frenetic Rip    Awful Eye
+---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+   Disseverment    Magic Fruit
| Optical Hat   | Chiv. Chain   | Brutal Ear.   | Suppanomimi   |   Actinic Burst   Lowing     
+---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+   Plasma Charge   Sandspray
| Magus Jubbah  | Cust. M Gloves| Flame Ring    | Flame Ring    |   Chaotic Eye     Metallic Body
+---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+   Zephyr Mantle   Sound Blast
| Cmdr.'s Cape  | Warwolf Belt  | Homam Cosc.   | Marine M Boots|   Frightful Roar  Magic Hammer
+---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+   Refueling

, only to parse 95% melee accuracy and think I'm completely overdoing it...only then to miss four straight Head Butts in a row a minute later. Consistency is tough, but you can definitely get the damage range up there with merits and tailored equipment choices.

[Delekii]

As an anecdote, Physical Potency seems to only increase the base damage by 2, just from watching Head Butt damage on Imps using a accuracy-heavy setup while I was increasing these merits. I'm curious to see how the recent discussion on merits goes, to see if this is really the case or not.

I dont think thats true, that should be easily testable on ronfaure rabbits.. I went out and tested with a few spells and never got a higher SA'ed spell than what would be expected with the listed D caps on Vry's Gobli translation.

Assuming pdif 3.0 and fSTR capped at 22 (Blue magic melee physical fSTR cap, supposedly?)
STR104 DEX80 VIT67

Sprout Smack vs Bunny (Multiplier+.25 from beastial strength, 30%vit)
D:11, max theoretical crit = floor(11+22+floor(floor(67*.3)*.83)*1.75)*3=255
If it were +2D per merit, I have 2 merits, so D=15, Crit Cap on rabbits should be 276, but I never got over 255

Uppercut vs Bunny (Multiplier+.25 from beastial strength, 35%str)
D:39, max theoretical crit = floor(39+22+floor(floor(104*.35)*.83)*1.75)*3=471 which was max achieved, D43 should have achieved 492

Sickle Slash vs Bunny (50%dex)
D:49, max theoretical crit = floor(49+22+floor(floor(80*.5)*.83)*1.5)*3=468 which was max achieved, D53 should have achieved 486

My maths is pretty shitty, but this suggests to me that Physical potency doesn't directly affect base damage in any way, right? it has to change the pdif somehow



edit: I did a test on pinecomb bomb for my own interest sake, and came out weird.. according to the wiki, pdif for ranged attack critical = pdifx1.25.
Pinecone Bomb vs Bunny (20%str(105) 20%agi(62), Multiplier+.25 beastial strength), ranged blue magic fstr cap = 44 (is there a question about this? it gave the right results for me)
D37, max theoretical hit at pdif=3 = floor(37+44+floor(floor(105*.2+62*.2)*.83)*2.5)*3= 810, and max theoretical crit = 1012(pdif3.75). All my casted pinecone bombs hit the rabbits for either exactly 810, or 1012, which also backs up something I read a while back that ranged attacks can crit by themselves, unlike melee blue magic - it crit 3 times out of 20 casts

edit edit: tested on featherstorm too, expected values of 450 normal or 562 crit were achieved, no SA or CA.

[Kaslo]

Which part of the mire were you in normal or Khimmy?

[Judai]

Unless you see a parse, people are usually full of shit on "averages". I usually party with a SMN or RDM and Dia+Roar adds a ton of damage to my spells. Otherwise I don't hit for no 1ks and shit unless CA and it's a weak ass Imp. I only have 3 BLU Magic and 3 PhysPot merits. I use more STR. btw Martial Anelace sucks imo.

[Royal]

Holy shit this thread is long. Can't image how many pages it would be if we didn't lose so many pages back in May.

[VZX]

Be ready in boyahda tree after you got back, Dele.

my hands so itchy now, wanna spend these merit.

[Teorem]

Only 197 pages.

Now that I've had some sleep, I should clarify:

It was almost six months ago when I made the observation, but I went back and looked more at the detailed parses which I kept--I had begun Physical Potency merits while looking at other means of increasing the damage through a different equipment setup, as Imps were taking far too long to kill--and you're right, they don't support that kind of claim.

What had stuck out to me when I first started increasing the Physical Potency merits (I had no other BLU-related merits at the time) was that the maximum of the Head Butt damage I was getting, which was almost always 75, jumped up immediately to 77 with only one merit added. However, later parses didn't show similar subsequent increases to the maximum when I added the rest of the merits.

Unfortunately, by the time I capped out I had switched to another solo equipment set which was more focused on STR (from STR 62+18, DEX 63+10, Accuracy+40, Haste+16% to STR 62+35, DEX 63+18, Accuracy+8, Haste +3%) and saw such a big increase in the damage as a result that I gave up looking more into the Physical Potency merit differences and didn't keep individual enemy parses on a routine basis anymore.

With BLU being such a popular job and so many players, it seems odd that it's not possible to get two otherwise identically setup players to compare the difference between a physical potency merit without having to have one person exhaustively do it themselves one merit at a time. But I appreciate that you and VZX are taking the time to do it and kind of regret I wasn't in such a rush to max out the category so I could try it for myself. I'm looking forward to seeing the results, thank you!

Edit: the other discussion thread did include some damage comparisons that were the result of Dia II and Frightful Roar. I don't know if you use it already, but personally, I use Frightful Roar on every Imp when soloing to get as much out of the damage as possible (although it's sometimes hard to tell, as I'll have good damage on an Imp that resisted and poor damage on an Imp that didn't occasionally), but other people choose to skip it and use the accumulated MP to crank out another physical spell or two. The cast time isn't that long and the MP cost isn't that high, which makes it worthwhile for me to at least try.

[Delekii]

btw Martial Anelace sucks imo.

I agree, but its cheap and Perdu is the final choice anyway, so I cbf spending more/bcing for dissector.

[Kiarax]

Bit late but I don't see why Shotel is such a unrealistic option. Getting to each prime can take a while but the fights are easy and any LS could plow through all the fights in a day or 2. Shiva's Shotel is one of the best BLU swords and Ifrit's Bow looks fairly decent for a few of the jobs that can use it. The quest can only be done once every conquest tally so an LS could do 1 Prime a day repeating it weekly and it wouldn't take up much time. I've seen 3 weapons drop from one run (2x Leviathan's Couse & 1 Ifrit's Bow), whether or not more then that can drop in one run I don't know. Obviously if you can't convince your LS to do them to help you get a sword then it can be a pain to get people, but even if you shouted for members the fights are all still doable (12 manned the 6 basic primes pretty easily, though we never attempted Carbuncle with less then 18 I can't see it being hard with less, just a little slower).

[Sho]

Bit late but I don't see why Shotel is such a unrealistic option. Getting to each prime can take a while but the fights are easy and any LS could plow through all the fights in a day or 2. Shiva's Shotel is one of the best BLU swords and Ifrit's Bow looks fairly decent for a few of the jobs that can use it. The quest can only be done once every conquest tally so an LS could do 1 Prime a day repeating it weekly and it wouldn't take up much time. I've seen 3 weapons drop from one run (2x Leviathan's Couse & 1 Ifrit's Bow), whether or not more then that can drop in one run I don't know. Obviously if you can't convince your LS to do them to help you get a sword then it can be a pain to get people, but even if you shouted for members the fights are all still doable (12 manned the 6 basic primes pretty easily, though we never attempted Carbuncle with less then 18 I can't see it being hard with less, just a little slower).

You do not speak of Shotel... you... you... French lady! D: Shiva's Shotel is one of the best BLU swords however tho, I agree.

[Kaslo]

btw Martial Anelace sucks imo.

I agree, but its cheap and Perdu is the final choice anyway, so I cbf spending more/bcing for dissector.

Greed Scimitar >.>

[VZX]

Any words about hofud

on a side note, Dele's BLU is broken, fSTR often doesn't match to the theory