Blue Mage: Best thread ever

[Toth]

It's so interesting in this look at BLU in party situations how looking back at the beginning of ToA, BLU quickly became known as one of the best DDs available. Who doesn't remember those awesome BLU burns and the fantastic exp? BLU have just so many tricks and tactics to use to be a productive party member. BLU at least has had the benefits from the getgo, unlike PUP and COR which were introduced in a largely unfinished form (PUP moreso than COR). It took those two jobs this long to morph into their final forms thanks to this update and I believe their usefulness finally is on the same page as BLU (tho good PUPs and CORs could put up great numbers prior anyway). Nowadays, I have noticed BLU becoming less wanted in meritting situations but you can still get phenomenal parties as a BLU if you have a good RDM. I suppose we will see if we can reclaim some spots in an uber meritting party if this adjustment on Monday changes 2handers back to less godly levels.

[Tonko]

The only truly viable merit camp for BLU is Colibri, due to issues keeping MP flowing. Anywhere else and we either flash burst all our MP at once, or do low DoT due to being conservative with MP.

[Toth]

Actually, a good spot with Mamool Jas, perferable DRG and BLM types, is also great for BLUburns. MP Drainkiss works wonders on wyverns and the Philosophers. It's not chain 200 material but we've gotten chain 15s consistently on the first level of Nyzul for example.

[Delekii]

The only truly viable merit camp for BLU is Colibri, due to issues keeping MP flowing. Anywhere else and we either flash burst all our MP at once, or do low DoT due to being conservative with MP.

That's not necessarily true, at most Mamool camps there are enough mage type mamools to MP Drainkiss quite regularly, which with the right magic accuracy and haste is good. Obviously, not close to as good as Colibri, but still workable. Of course, if you merit at Caedarva BLU shines as well (though I try to avoid that if I can -_-)

The biggest problem with BLU being invited for merits is that you must have a RDM willing to refresh and haste you for maximum efficacy, so in a pickup situation most people shun BLUs. And, unfortunately with the jobs I have, I don't often (ever?) get to go BLU in ls parties either

[LinktheDeme]

The only truly viable merit camp for BLU is Colibri, due to issues keeping MP flowing. Anywhere else and we either flash burst all our MP at once, or do low DoT due to being conservative with MP.

That's not necessarily true, at most Mamool camps there are enough mage type mamools to MP Drainkiss quite regularly, which with the right magic accuracy and haste is good. Obviously, not close to as good as Colibri, but still workable. Of course, if you merit at Caedarva BLU shines as well (though I try to avoid that if I can -_-)

The biggest problem with BLU being invited for merits is that you must have a RDM willing to refresh and haste you for maximum efficacy, so in a pickup situation most people shun BLUs. And, unfortunately with the jobs I have, I don't often (ever?) get to go BLU in ls parties either

BLUx4 with a brd and a cor is pretty sick ;3
At least on birds

[Nirokun!]

mamool ja infiltrator/lurker chainbreakers can be dealt with by reserving mp comfortably low enough for sanction latent and spammed down. bard just has to be mindful of separating thf-nin pulls to allow mp to build back, but its definately doable

and whats with all the rdms that refresh only (no haste) for blu? wtf is that?

[Kaslo]

The only truly viable merit camp for BLU is Colibri, due to issues keeping MP flowing. Anywhere else and we either flash burst all our MP at once, or do low DoT due to being conservative with MP.

I disagree with this statement, DoT is lower than most jobs but a healthy balance of spells and melee DoT is best, most people just like seeing 800+ DMG spells going off consecutively (which is why they like birds) however I have gotten endless chains on Mamool Jas (Nyzul) without using MP Drainkiss at all with WAR WAR BLU BRD BRD RDM. Heck me and 1 WAR kept chain on the THF with the other WAR dead and kept chain alive till the other WAR unweakened. Learn to be more than your MP pool is all I have to say.

[Tonko]

BLU melee damage is marginal at best, our damage comes from our spells. Keeping chain on a THF mamool with only a BLU + WAR to do damage makes me think the WAR had TP and was pimped way the hell out, and got lucky with a big rampage. My Melee setup is perfect minus a Fortitude torque, and a HQ Devil Slayer, so I'm much more than just my MP pool. The viability of BLU on Birds is that we're best there out of all camps, other camps I always put myself on Bard, because I know I'll benefit the party more than taking up a DD spot that would be better filled by WAR or MNK on Mamools.

[Valrath]

BLU melee damage is marginal at best, our damage comes from our spells. Keeping chain on a THF mamool with only a BLU + WAR to do damage makes me think the WAR had TP and was pimped way the hell out, and got lucky with a big rampage. My Melee setup is perfect minus a Fortitude torque, and a HQ Devil Slayer, so I'm much more than just my MP pool. The viability of BLU on Birds is that we're best there out of all camps, other camps I always put myself on Bard, because I know I'll benefit the party more than taking up a DD spot that would be better filled by WAR or MNK on Mamools.

Not (completely) true. My melee damage is quiet decent and I have a good haste build with room for improvement. With refueling, 15% haste gear and 2x march, I'm swinging nearly nonstop doing 50-60 damage per swing. My vorpals are around 500-600, not too bad for being limited to a D44 weapon. My spell damage is good, and I can conserve my mp to never run out, even by casting diss/FR every fight.

Now, I know I'm no match for a good war or mnk, I've been outparsed by them plenty of times. On the other hand, I have out-DD'd other melees, and I've yet to pt with a blu that has outparsed me. It's why I hate blu burns on birds. I'm always doing 30-40% of the damage, so I'm eating all the TP resets, always loosing my food, and always getting stabbed, and I still outperform other blu's. Fuck 'em. I'd rather solo imps all day, and I would, if people only understood what the fuck a /seacom is and stop invading my camps.


edit: btw, anyone know how to make blu more effective on Ouryu (the uncapped fight). All I'm doing is diamondhide spam on the tanks and curing as needed. Eyes on Me has potential, but that'll mean I'll need a chr build and tie up more inventory slots with situational gear. If it's worth it, I will, but is there anything else I could be doing?

[Delekii]

I went to Ouryu as BLU/THF on the weekend, and we make perfectly effective DD/SC makers.

My spell setup was fully cannonball, with the exception of magic fruit for emergencies. On the second run I switched out 3 strength and loaded Eyes on Me and Soundblast (for MAB) and tried that too.

I'm a Taru with STR merits, 5 Blu magic merits (top tier of base damage currently available), 2 physical potency, and the rotation was usually like this:

Ouryu on ground > TP on Worms (they have really low evasion, and will cocoon+taco they don't hit you for shit, I also had chaotic eye loaded to go with firespit for conserve mp, which landed 100% on worms with sword). Preload SA+CA before it takes off, or you wont get a second CA in that flight. Sword+Shield SACA CB will hit for 600-900 (Often over 800 with double Minne, but I didn't always have Minne since the bard was providing for other melees too). Then switch to staff/axe grip for 400-600 SA CB, then again staff+grip for CASA CB for 500-700. Considering BLM non-bursted spells do approximately 500-600 damage on Ouryu, being able to throw out 3 unresisted cannonballs per flight is comparatively very good damage. On top of that, you can land frightful roar 90% of the time without staff.

As I said, the second time I also loaded Eyes on Me, and I had a reasonable CHR setup on me, but certainly not everything (I didnt go expecting to use it). With moderate gear, it bursted for about 350 damage on darksday, but it was never resisted. Personally, I don't think its worth the effort to burst it when you could be tping for your next cannonball instead. It costs a bit over 100mp, and depending on your setup, MP could be a problem (I was in a party with RDM+BRD, but RDM was looking after both elementals and emergencies on the tanks, and obviously I was getting minnes from the bard).

I wasn't in any skillchain (and I'd be scared shitless to SA while it was on the ground, it did turn toward me once in the air after I helped the WHM recover from a couple of AoEs with some fruits. But certainly, if your LS needs skillchains, you can arguably partake in 2 per landing (wont do good damage, but will certainly help the blms). Open one with a sword WS (Savage opens distortion), and open another with a CA spell..

[shukuffxi]

Not (completely) true. My melee damage is quiet decent and I have a good haste build with room for improvement. With refueling, 15% haste gear and 2x march, I'm swinging nearly nonstop doing 50-60 damage per swing. My vorpals are around 500-600, not too bad for being limited to a D44 weapon. My spell damage is good, and I can conserve my mp to never run out, even by casting diss/FR every fight.

Not trying to attack you, i'm a BLU as well, and I <3 the job, this is just how I see it:

50-60 per swing is not bad. But like, every other Dual Wielder out there will beat that, barring maybe, THF and NIN, but they swing faster than us regardless, and crit more as well. With the recent update, the 2H users are as competative or more so than a WAR/NIN, placing us pretty low in terms of DoT. Depending on songs/rolls, I think BLU tend to get the short end of the stick. (i.e: I really don't need Accuracy with my 290 Sword Skill + Accuracy Bonus job trait, and while I like Minuet's boost to my DoT, it has 0 effect on my most damaging abilities, Physical Spells.) Basically, a BLU/NIN's sword DoT is weaker than PLD/NIN's sword DoT, due to weapon selection, and a few pieces of gear. Our WS are weaker as well, for the same reasons.

Are you saying you cast both every fight, or either/or? Frenetic Rip is 61MP, Disseverment is 74MP, that's 135MP per fight. Now i'm only a Hume, my MP in an XP PT is around 650ish~ A kill at Colibiri Camp is like 30-40sec tops most times, so that's a hell of a lot of MP to burn through with 5mp/tic (Job Trait/Sanction/Refresh Spell) in 30-40 seconds, and considering the RDM doesn't miss your Refresh. Toss in a stray Head Butt, or if you have RDM who doesn't Haste you, that's more MP lost, less time swinging. I try to put up my Refuelings between fights, but in a good PT, there is very little "between fights" time. Toss in MP Drainkiss used as effeciently as possible, and that's more time that you're not DDing.

That being said, like any other decent DD job, a well geared and skilled BLU will blow a weaker DD out of the water, just like a well geared PLD/NIN can destroy a meh AH-only WAR. I've had a few PTs on my BLU as well where I was parsing 35~40% at Greater Colibiri camp, but i've also had PTs with like WAR NIN NIN BLU RDM BRD and came in last, as long as they were well geared and smart. Can you get 25k/hr with a good BLU in the PT? Yes. Will it require more effort overall from the PT to keep that rate going? Yes.

Despite our versatility, I find we shine best in missions/BC/some HNM/kick ass solo, etc. Some of our abilities make many of those things a lot easier, and in solo, we can do some really impressive things.

[Sylvrdragon]

IMO, the way a BLU contributes the most in a meripo is by picking up the slack when all the other melees blow their TP on the same mob. When you have a fresh mob and everyone else is more than half the fight away from their next WS, then it's really nice when the BLU can put out 1 or 2 500-600 (700-800 with CA, average) spells to make up for that lack of spike damage. I kept a lot of chains alive this way.

Also, if you happen to have a THF or MNK in PT, then you can follow up an Asuran Fists, or Evisceration with a CA Disseverment to make Darkness, then load up Burst Affinity and get a nice MP Drain-kiss in for around 150-190, not to mention the chance of mirroring your Disseverment damage, which is a VERY nice spike. (I don't remember what other WSs have Gravitation properties that you could do this off of.)

Of course, even knowing all of this, I still won't invite a BLU to a meripo if I don't know them to be good, because the likelihood of them measuring up to my standards is very slim. Most of them are too busy trying to be competitive against the other DDs and don't think about how they can make the PT as a whole better.

[VZX]

BLU is a good chain keeper in merit PT 8)

While all DD is limited to TP generating phase/ uncontrollable DoT output, we can cast at almost anytime and adjust the DoT anytime

[Rheya]

and whats with all the rdms that refresh only (no haste) for blu? wtf is that?

Is this after the 2H update? Since the 2H update, melee aren't subbing NIN anymore. I was RDM healing in a recent meripo of SAM MNK DRG WAR BRD RDM, where only the MNK was subbing NIN. I could barely keep enough MP to cure all the 2H'ers taking dmg left and right...I couldn't even fathom Hastes. I have 3 merits in Convert too.

Before the update, when everyone and their mother had shadows, I would have had no problem dropping Hastes and even a Refresh or two had there been a BLU. It's a completely different story in 2H era.

On the flip side, xp'ing as 67 BLU, I never got haste from the RDM either...but I was fine with that...I'm content with the minor perk that Refueling gives as long as I'm Refreshed. I'm not going to ask for two 40MP spells when the rest of the DD are only getting one.

[VZX]

The problem when I'm not getting haste is I'll miss 1 extra base damage for spellcasting on top of 1 possible extra WSC

I could swap refueling for heat breath

[Delekii]

On the flip side, xp'ing as 67 BLU, I never got haste from the RDM either...but I was fine with that...I'm content with the minor perk that Refueling gives as long as I'm Refreshed. I'm not going to ask for two 40MP spells when the rest of the DD are only getting one.

Why not? Between headbutt and the various other tricks BLU has, you are saving your mage a hell of a lot more than 40 mp per cycle, especially if you are subbing NIN.

Melees that sub WAR in merit parties where they shouldn't piss me off, badly. If you are taking so much damage that the RDM cant afford to haste/refresh people, go change your fucking sub.

[Lordwafik]

I too don't mind only getting a refresh while keeping refueling on myself, just out of convenience's sake.

[Valrath]

Not (completely) true. My melee damage is quiet decent and I have a good haste build with room for improvement. With refueling, 15% haste gear and 2x march, I'm swinging nearly nonstop doing 50-60 damage per swing. My vorpals are around 500-600, not too bad for being limited to a D44 weapon. My spell damage is good, and I can conserve my mp to never run out, even by casting diss/FR every fight.

Are you saying you cast both every fight, or either/or? Frenetic Rip is 61MP, Disseverment is 74MP, that's 135MP per fight. Now i'm only a Hume, my MP in an XP PT is around 650ish~ A kill at Colibiri Camp is like 30-40sec tops most times, so that's a hell of a lot of MP to burn through with 5mp/tic (Job Trait/Sanction/Refresh Spell) in 30-40 seconds, and considering the RDM doesn't miss your Refresh. Toss in a stray Head Butt, or if you have RDM who doesn't Haste you, that's more MP lost, less time swinging. I try to put up my Refuelings between fights, but in a good PT, there is very little "between fights" time. Toss in MP Drainkiss used as effeciently as possible, and that's more time that you're not DDing.

Been a while since I've done birds, but with auto-refresh, sanction refresh and rdm refresh, that's 5mp/tic. Plus, I can get MP drainkiss down to ~1min, so that's -10 to 170ish net mp gained. yeah, casting time sucks, I find it costs ~20 tp and 200 damage in sword swings, but as said blu is a balance of DoT and spike. I can control mob killing speedby timing my spells. Like, say the mob has 10% hp, and no one has any TP for ws. We could melee it down, but that just wastes time, or cast a spell to finish it off, saving 5-10 seconds. Granted, it's not much, but it adds up. I could spam spells even more, but I find that just makes me a hate magnet, and with gimpy DD's, I can't count on them to pull hate off me.

And the 50-60 damage a swing is with ~450 attack. I can get it higher with better meat food (was using meatkababs, thought we were going to kill birds, so I didn't bring the good stuff, plus my gear still needs more tweaking, like a goddamn fort torque, and homam feet once omega is nice to me). And wish I could say I've done high chains in non-blue burns, sadly I can't, mostly due to shitty pt formation. It's like all the good people pt together and the leftovers and loners are all that remains, so slim pickings. Need to pasre against good melees so I know just how strong or how weak I really am. Beating gimps in parses doesn't show me anything.

And as for refueling vs. haste, I'll gladly take care of my own haste if rdm is the only haster, but if there's a rdm and whm, or 2 rdm, I do want the 15% haste haste. I got stun spells and cure spells to ease rdm mp usage at the cost of my damage, so I kinda would like to have that extra 5% haste, but I'm not greedy and won't demand it, esp if there is only 1 haster. With 2, I might quietly request it.

And for the Ouryu advice, it's certainly useful, but hard to use given my ls's strat on killing it. Might have to suggest some changes to the way we kill it. Actually, will have to, fight takes too long.

[Nirokun!]

idk i just dont like wasting mp and set points supporting myself when hasting 3-4 melee is part of the whm-rdm's job---i did it on whm, and i expect my rdm to do it ;(

this isnt just since the 2h update, it been like this maybe they think that because we have a 10% haste spell we can cast ourselves, we dont want their 15% hell i drop 72mp to cure people they can spare the haste

[MarkM.]

Maybe a stupid question, but I am still going to ask here. Since Cannonball is based of h2h dmg, if you have thief sub with capped h2h for thf sub will you do more damage? Thanks!