Blue Mage: Best thread ever

[LinktheDeme]

Maybe a stupid question, but I am still going to ask here. Since Cannonball is based of h2h dmg, if you have thief sub with capped h2h for thf sub will you do more damage? Thanks!

No what it means off h2h is the type of damage not the actual skill. Like how mnks h2h dmg does more dmg to bones, but not quite as much as a staff or a club which is blunt. Also it means it can damage jailer of temperance while hes just a plain pot(Only damagable by blunt type damage).Blue mage damage comes from the actual skill and blue mage accuracy comes from the current weapon your holding.(I.E. your holding a sword with 200 skill you will get about 200 acc just from holding the sword).

[MarkM.]

Maybe a stupid question, but I am still going to ask here. Since Cannonball is based of h2h dmg, if you have thief sub with capped h2h for thf sub will you do more damage? Thanks!

No what it means off h2h is the type of damage not the actual skill. Like how mnks h2h dmg does more dmg to bones, but not quite as much as a staff or a club which is blunt. Also it means it can damage jailer of temperance while hes just a plain pot(Only damagable by blunt type damage).Blue mage damage comes from the actual skill and blue mage accuracy comes from the current weapon your holding.(I.E. your holding a sword with 200 skill you will get about 200 acc just from holding the sword).

Thank you!

[Alistaire]

Maybe a stupid question, but I am still going to ask here. Since Cannonball is based of h2h dmg, if you have thief sub with capped h2h for thf sub will you do more damage? Thanks!

No what it means off h2h is the type of damage not the actual skill. Like how mnks h2h dmg does more dmg to bones, but not quite as much as a staff or a club which is blunt. Also it means it can damage jailer of temperance while hes just a plain pot(Only damagable by blunt type damage).Blue mage damage comes from the actual skill and blue mage accuracy comes from the current weapon your holding.(I.E. your holding a sword with 200 skill you will get about 200 acc just from holding the sword).

When people say "blunt" or "hth" they're the same thing. There's no distinction between hth and staff/club damage type. There are 3 types of melee damage only: piercing (dagger, polearm), blunt (hth, staff, club), and slashing which is everything else. Some weapons are exceptions, like how Joyeuse does piercing, Crude Sword (great sword) does blunt, and a couple of others but there has never been a 4th type of melee damage.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

When people say "blunt" or "hth" they're the same thing. There's no distinction between hth and staff/club damage type. There are 3 types of melee damage only: piercing (dagger, polearm), blunt (hth, staff, club), and slashing which is everything else. Some weapons are exceptions, like how Joyeuse does piercing, Crude Sword (great sword) does blunt, and a couple of others but there has never been a 4th type of melee damage.

Wrong. H2h is a 4th type, it's exactly the same as blunt except only gets half the bonuses.

[recuperi]

yeah 12.5% vs 25% i think it was

[Rheya]

idk i just dont like wasting mp and set points supporting myself when hasting 3-4 melee is part of the whm-rdm's job---i did it on whm, and i expect my rdm to do it ;(

this isnt just since the 2h update, it been like this maybe they think that because we have a 10% haste spell we can cast ourselves, we dont want their 15% hell i drop 72mp to cure people they can spare the haste

omg four sad faces in one sentence!! i still heart you, little taru!

[Kaslo]

Not (completely) true. My melee damage is quiet decent and I have a good haste build with room for improvement. With refueling, 15% haste gear and 2x march, I'm swinging nearly nonstop doing 50-60 damage per swing. My vorpals are around 500-600, not too bad for being limited to a D44 weapon. My spell damage is good, and I can conserve my mp to never run out, even by casting diss/FR every fight.

Not trying to attack you, i'm a BLU as well, and I <3 the job, this is just how I see it:

50-60 per swing is not bad. But like, every other Dual Wielder out there will beat that, barring maybe, THF and NIN, but they swing faster than us regardless, and crit more as well. With the recent update, the 2H users are as competative or more so than a WAR/NIN, placing us pretty low in terms of DoT. Depending on songs/rolls, I think BLU tend to get the short end of the stick. (i.e: I really don't need Accuracy with my 290 Sword Skill + Accuracy Bonus job trait, and while I like Minuet's boost to my DoT, it has 0 effect on my most damaging abilities, Physical Spells.) Basically, a BLU/NIN's sword DoT is weaker than PLD/NIN's sword DoT, due to weapon selection, and a few pieces of gear. Our WS are weaker as well, for the same reasons.

Are you saying you cast both every fight, or either/or? Frenetic Rip is 61MP, Disseverment is 74MP, that's 135MP per fight. Now i'm only a Hume, my MP in an XP PT is around 650ish~ A kill at Colibiri Camp is like 30-40sec tops most times, so that's a hell of a lot of MP to burn through with 5mp/tic (Job Trait/Sanction/Refresh Spell) in 30-40 seconds, and considering the RDM doesn't miss your Refresh. Toss in a stray Head Butt, or if you have RDM who doesn't Haste you, that's more MP lost, less time swinging. I try to put up my Refuelings between fights, but in a good PT, there is very little "between fights" time. Toss in MP Drainkiss used as effeciently as possible, and that's more time that you're not DDing.

That being said, like any other decent DD job, a well geared and skilled BLU will blow a weaker DD out of the water, just like a well geared PLD/NIN can destroy a meh AH-only WAR. I've had a few PTs on my BLU as well where I was parsing 35~40% at Greater Colibiri camp, but i've also had PTs with like WAR NIN NIN BLU RDM BRD and came in last, as long as they were well geared and smart. Can you get 25k/hr with a good BLU in the PT? Yes. Will it require more effort overall from the PT to keep that rate going? Yes.

Despite our versatility, I find we shine best in missions/BC/some HNM/kick ass solo, etc. Some of our abilities make many of those things a lot easier, and in solo, we can do some really impressive things.

No the difference is while we are only decent at DoT we have spells that pick up the slack, and also on another note, I would rather a RDM spend 40 mp refreshing me than hasteing me and thus I use refueling and the RDM knows this, as a RDM myself I know the struggle Hasteing a whole party puts on your MP pool.

[shukuffxi]

No the difference is while we are only decent at DoT we have spells that pick up the slack, and also on another note, I would rather a RDM spend 40 mp refreshing me than hasteing me and thus I use refueling and the RDM knows this, as a RDM myself I know the struggle Hasteing a whole party puts on your MP pool.

I don't find us anywhere near "decent" at DoT. The only job that's really behind us in terms of DoT is PUP probably. Most time in XP, we're subbing NIN, what does this mean for our DoT? We get the same Dual Wield bonuses as any other job that subs NIN. We have no Berserk, no native Double Attack or Triple Attack, and fairly low damage weapons. I'm not going to count Suppanomimi/Brutal Earring/etc that other jobs also can wear, giving them the same advantages, as they are basically the best pieces for their slots. Any 2H should not be behind a BLU/NIN on DoT. Any /NIN or NIN main will have SOME type of advantage in DoT (Berserk/Native DA/Native TA/Higher level of Dual Wield), that gives them an advantage over us. Of course, this takes into account that the people you are XPing with are competent at their jobs The only real equipment advantage we have over some jobs is Homam, which I don't think makes up for all the other advantages DD jobs have for DoT, though it does a good amount for us.

As for the whole hasting debate, honestly, I mostly don't care, and end up Refueling myself most times because RDMs do have a hard time keeping up so many hastes. Regardless, this does put you at -5% haste compared to the rest of the DDs, and we know how much everyone values Haste (hi2u people 0/12 on Swift Belt, and insane Speed Belt prices, etc)

Our biggest contribution to an XP PT comes through several things: Being able to help control the flow of XP (like others have said, stuff like having a mob at 15% and no one with TP, BLUs excel at keeping chains), Head Butt (Single RDM PTs are not uncommon, and stunning TP moves, or getting a 3-4 sec Head Butt is not rare at all, saving plenty of MP, and at Colibiri camps, saving food), the occasional back up cure (If I see only 1 main healer, Magic Fruit is staying in my spell list). Our Physical Spells are competative in terms of damage, but aren't so OMFG that people invite us just for them, especially since they are dependant on MP. There are a plethora of small things that BLU can do to help make XP safer, but as far as being top dog DD, that's just not our place pretty much, no matter how much I <3 the job. Again, this takes into account that you are playing with skilled/at least not sucky people, in which case, any well geared/skilled player can step all over others in a parse.

[Judai]

It's pretty safe to say if you xp in parties that cater to the melee they will out perform you, if they however fought in a bluburn that cater'd to you, I bet you would outperform them. BLY is a special job and requires some luxaries to be at it's best in an xp party.

[FinalJustice]

Most time in XP, we're subbing NIN,

I never sub /nin in a merit. The only time i Sub nin is on some annoying TP move spamming HNM like Proto omega or something.

[Tonko]

So in a merit party where hate is completely random and you don't have Assassin trait with /THF.... what DO you sub?

[fantasticdan]

In my experience I do more damage with /nin than /thf in merit party, most limbus, and stuff like that. The damage difference between SA/CASA vertical cleave, cannonball, or self-light and self-distortion is pretty small, and on stuff that you can melee well, dual-wield bonuses and extra hit on WS more than make up for that damage from what I see. Add in utsusemi, the headache involved with constantly lining up SA/TA, and the fact that almost everything worth meriting on is weak to piercing, and it's a no-brainer imo..

One thing I would like to see that would be of minor benefit to blu, is a fix to skillchain damage accuracy. Why does distortion have like 25-33% acc against a vt mob weak to ice? Kinda retarded. Thou I know SE will never fix this, because no ones crying about it.

[Delekii]

If taking damage wasn't a consideration, I would go BLU/WAR before BLU/THF in merit party.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

In my experience I do more damage with /nin than /thf in merit party, most limbus, and stuff like that. The damage difference between SA/CASA vertical cleave, cannonball, or self-light and self-distortion is pretty small, and on stuff that you can melee well, dual-wield bonuses and extra hit on WS more than make up for that damage from what I see. Add in utsusemi, the headache involved with constantly lining up SA/TA, and the fact that almost everything worth meriting on is weak to piercing, and it's a no-brainer imo..

One thing I would like to see that would be of minor benefit to blu, is a fix to skillchain damage accuracy. Why does distortion have like 25-33% acc against a vt mob weak to ice? Kinda retarded. Thou I know SE will never fix this, because no ones crying about it.

You're gonna hate me for suggesting it but stack Magic Accuracy for self SC. It supposedly helps SC resists.

[fantasticdan]

You're gonna hate me for suggesting it but stack Magic Accuracy for self SC. It supposedly helps SC resists.

I actually made a thread asking about this in newbie section a while back and got no real response. Even with morrigan's body/head/hands thou, you've only got 15 macc there, and I can't imagine that's going to bump you up from 25% to a reasonable accuracy rate. Even if you dropped your leg/feet slots for nashira, that's only 5 more, and if macc works anything like melee acc that's just going to bring you to 35% acc from +20 macc total. I don't doubt that macc could have some small effect, but it's extremely impractical at best.

Level 1 skill chain accuracy is even worse, I could probably count the number of times I've seen an unresisted vorpal blade- -> hysteric barrage: detonation on t or higher mob on one hand, and I use that a lot on stuff weak to blunt.

I notice I have near 100% level-2 sc acc on most assault/mission mobs, a good portion of limbus mobs, and pretty much anything DC or lower. Really IMO it should just be like that all the time, at least when you're using relevant elemental SC towards a monsters weakness.

[Tonko]

If taking damage wasn't a consideration, I would go BLU/WAR before BLU/THF in merit party.

Gogo Zephyr mantle!

[fantasticdan]

Gogo 7 second casting time on mobs that live for 20-25 seconds! Gogo spending 93 seconds of auto-refresh on a spell that was free, faster casting, and more reliable on /nin. :D

Without taking into account z. mantle casting time/mp drain, does blu/war even do more melee damage than suppa blu/nin on paper? I don't follow the math.

[Delekii]

double attack + attack bonus > dual wield for damage in merit parties.

but I didnt say that I DO sub war, I said that if damage taken wasn't a consideration I WOULD sub war.

[shukuffxi]

I tried /THF for XP, in a burn. Possibly the worst idea ever. I could TA a tank, turn around and SA+Spell (Or CASA) and the mob would already have spun. It was ridiculous how much the mob bounced. It'll basically change every WS. And in the time I get SA/TA up, we've prolly killed 1 mob and the other is either almost dead, or dead. That and having melee who run around full time for no reason, or who don't want to eat a TA is a pain. It's like taking "Hey, we know BLU doesn't work great in burn, let's toss in /THF to make it harder"

Now if you go to Trolls, it's a different story, but not on weaker mobs.

On the other hand yeah, a BLU burn can tear up any XP mob they want, just gotta find people willing to go.

I'd sub /WAR too if you know, we didn't lose attack speed, or if Berserk worked on Physical Spells. Or DA. /WAR gives you a DoT increase, that I don't know how it compares to /NINs DW+Suppa.

[fantasticdan]

double attack + attack bonus > dual wield for damage in merit parties.

I always hear people say this for blu/war, bst/war, etc. but I've never seen any math or tests. Minor thing to note as well is blu get's no melee enhancing sheilds like viking or tatami, I know this is a miniscule difference, but I imagine the difference between 10% double attack, and 3/5 active 25% attack bonus vs. 20% dual-wield, offhand hit on ws, and offhand stat bonus is tiny to begin with in the grand scheme of things.

EDIT: I know no one would want to sub /war for merit party, just want to see the math.