Blue Mage: Best thread ever

[FinalJustice]

Fixing the magical side of BLU would be very nice, seeing as in my opinion alot were nerfed into the ground for fear of being -too- powerful and ended up being 'underpowered'

Im looking at YOU senor 120 mp FireSpit
You too mr 12 sec casting rarely landing 350 mp dmg dividing 1000 needles :bagel:

[Lordender]

wouldn't mind some better nuking spells on blu.

[Kaslo]

I think Refueling is prob the main reason Diffusion is such a long recast imo and yeah for most it is short duration, but Exuviation (as a DS Erase from a WHM) needed to be limited similar to Divine Seal most likely.

Rather than "fixing" Diffusion I think they should "fix" durrations >.>

and yeah LE I would love to have a good Ice Nuke and Light Nuke (Maybe CHR based to pair with Eyes on Me >.>).

[FinalJustice]

Wha? refueling (haste+10%) is weak compared to every other person who can haste (Haste+15%) lol
SMN Hastega is superior hands down, lasts just as long as rdm/whm haste and can be cast every 50 secs.

Though I also feel that a Whm being able to Divine Veil at 50, and a Blu being able to DV at 75 isnt unreasonable, especially given that currently the WHMs is superior still, as the whm can choose any na spell as well as erase, while blu is only able to do erase spells. Maybe if it was the mob version though...

[Kaslo]

Wha? refueling (haste+10%) is weak compared to every other person who can haste (Haste+15%) lol
SMN Hastega is superior hands down, lasts just as long as rdm/whm haste and can be cast every 50 secs.

Though I also feel that a Whm being able to Divine Veil at 50, and a Blu being able to DV at 75 isnt unreasonable, especially given that currently the WHMs is superior still, as the whm can choose any na spell as well as erase, while blu is only able to do erase spells. Maybe if it was the mob version though...

None the less it's something I think they kept in mind when making the ability. WHMs might not have been up in arms but they prob wanted to balance it.

[FinalJustice]

It feels like Diffusion was such an afterthought who knows lol

[ronin sparthos]

Feels like all the merits were horribly rushed...

Maybe SE could give blu a JA where magical spells were enhanced at the cost of physical spells being weakened (Kinda like velocity shot for magic)

Lowing MP cost on all magical spells would help the situation with many of the lesser used spells as well... and some spells could use a duration bump (Memento Mori i see you~)

[Kenji]

Hello, been reading the entire 119 pages of this the past few days, and finally finished, so thought I'd weigh in on the current debate. It does feel like Diffusion was an afterthought. Anyway, I think we can sum up the debate as thus..

Those who like the current situation:
They like the current diffusion timer because of the hate gain potential, and feel that any lower would break the job (and thus have other tank jobs complain about them, if they aren't yet).

Those who do not like the current situation:
They feel that a shorter diffusion timer would bring much needed usefulness to the ability and job. But they don't feel this would happen, because a hate-filled Exuviation would break the job (ironically, the point both sides agree on). They also feel that Diffusion+Exuviation is unusable from a healer/buffer standpoint, because of the hate gain. Thus, it's only use is to tank.

There 12 abilities that can be used with Diffusion. 11 of them could potential see more use with a lower diffusion timer. However, it's generally seen that 1 of the 12, is holding the other 11 back. And without solid figures, I wonder how many BLUs tank vs. DD/buff/heal? Thus, by numbers, the latter argument would seem to have the edge.

But how about a compromise?

If we are going to halve the timer to 10 mins(dropping to 8 minutes with full merits), why not halve the hate of Exuviation as well? BLU tanks should be relatively unaffected, as they should be getting the same hate in 20 minutes as they did before. You just get half of it now, and half later. BLUs who dislike the hate gain because they want to use the ability for it's ingame stated reason, would be able to use it without aquiring as much hate. And a shorter diffusion timer would lead to the other 11 abilities being used more often.

Would this be agreeable to both sides? Or would some more tweaking of the numbers be needed?

At the very least, it might be worthwhile to have someone make note of a question to ask SE next time, if they feel the hate gain was intentioned.

[LD]

Fixing the magical side of BLU would be very nice, seeing as in my opinion alot were nerfed into the ground for fear of being -too- powerful and ended up being 'underpowered'

Im looking at YOU senor 120 mp FireSpit :nomnomnom:
You too mr 12 sec casting rarely landing 350 mp dmg dividing 1000 needles :bagel:

Don't forget 70 MP Blitzstrahl, 86 MP Venom Shell, and 212 MP Bad Breath. Honestly, 121 Firespit is reasonable for its potential damage, but most of the BLU nukes are horribly weak, inaccurate, and/or inefficient. Mind Blast has the best MP to damage ratio with the right gear. That entire side of BLU's spell list reeks of pre-gimpping. As was said in an older thread on the same subject, just because they are magical doesn't mean they're not still BLU magic, so they should be just as efficient as the physical spells.


Comparing Diffusion to DS in regards to Exuviation does make a lot of sense, but I agree with FJ in that WHM can use DS/DV for more things and much earlier. Also, WHM naturally have a cart load of -ga buffs, and useful ones at that (and no BLU is using Exuviation for healing when Healing Breeze cures more than twice as much and is only slightly more expensive without needing a JA). Even if Diffusion's recast were lowered significantly, it could never match WHM in its ability to apply the buffs. Refueling is still 'weaker' than normal Haste, so having another slightly different Hastega doesn't sound so bad (no one begrudges Diamondhide.)

In the end, I disagree with both of you that they should adjust the durations. Refueling would be hands down the most efficient form of Haste (probably pissing off soloing RDMs). Even if it was only enhanced with Diffusion, unless it was enough to get close to the full Diffusion recast, it would still wouldn't be totally practical, since it could not be kept on all the time ( something even a RDM can do with a small amount of people). Whether or not it's what SE intended (and I'm sure we've all said that's a nebulous point, by this point), moment to moment decision making while limiting the use of too many of our buffs (the result of a lower Diffusion recast and the same spell durations), imo, is preferable to having one thing up and not being able to change for ~20 minutes.


Kenji, really, your compromise has been what "Those who do not like the current situation" have been saying. According to the Emnity blog, Exuviation gives 640 Cumulative Enmity and 640 Volatile Enmity. Getting rid of or severely reducing the CE is all I was suggesting, so that's technically cutting the hate of the move in half (it wouldn't allow as much retention of hate, but it would still create a good amount of it. To make up for that, I even suggested increasing the VE). Currently, if they add 2 more G2 upgrades, the recast for Diffusion will go down to 10 minutes. The others were suggesting a ~10 recast while I'm the only one who went so far as to suggest using Feint's system: 10 base recast with each merit subtracting 2 minutes, for a max of 2 minutes (not only that, but people who don't care as much about buffing, such as myself, could put a single merit into it and not feel like it’s a complete waste).

So sorry, but you're not suggesting anything that wasn't already argued about (or possibly ignored). Anyway, the argument has all but burned itself out, there is nothing else to be said.

[ronin sparthos]

SE should have given BLU erratic flutter >.>

Yeah, but spells like Venom Shell and Bad Breath were just over the top owned in terms of utility. Ive cast Blitztrahl like 3 times total and alot of other spells are just there for completions sake. 1000 needles is 350 mp for the accuracy of a gimp sidewinder.... not to mention the unholy Ice Break which takes forever and a day to cast.

With the upcoming patch, Blu will be getting more spells and i hope SE doesnt beat into the ground the new spells like they did some of the old ones...

[FinalJustice]

I disagree with both of you that they should adjust the durations. Refueling would be hands down the most efficient form of Haste (probably pissing off soloing RDMs).

No No No! You misunderstand me. I think the blue spells that are 3-5min in duration are fine at that duration. 3-5 mins for those spells is very reasonable. Refueling is already 5 mins, no i don't think THAT spell should be longer. Plasma charge at 60secs, and Feather barrier at 30 secs on the other hand..

The only duration i'm not sure about is momento mori. MAB+20 sounds very potent...

[Takiwaki]

i have to admit that i do wish the magical blu spells definitely needs improving alot.

just wanted to chime in was doing shadows of the mind isbc recently and was able to constantly land 1k needles without the need for convergence or light staff. just using around 10 mag acc and BA.

[LeifofKujata]

I've had decent success in co-tanking JoL with a competent rdm/nin as blu/drk without using diffusion + exuviation. Albeit not as MP efficient AND it pretty much means you are the TP attack target, due to being in range for Jettatura, it does work. But efficiency plays a large role for sustained fights. I wont agree/disagree with either side cause I have my own opinion on the matter through experience.

I will say that bringing diffusion recast to at least 10min maxed wouldnt really break blu into being some uber tank, cause enmity is only part of whats needed. Even the best geared pld/nin can suck at maintaining hate.

I do agree some aspects of blu seem to have been overlooked or purposely held back to meet some standard of balance, but in doing so makes them less popular or not worth mp/cast/recast to use.

[LD]

No No No! You misunderstand me. I think the blue spells that are 3-5min in duration are fine at that duration. 3-5 mins for those spells is very reasonable. Refueling is already 5 mins, no i don't think THAT spell should be longer. Plasma charge at 60secs, and Feather barrier at 30 secs on the other hand..

The only duration i'm not sure about is momento mori. MAB+20 sounds very potent...

Hm, well Plasma Charge being so short is annoying, but it's 24 MP, the same as shock spikes, with a recast as long as its duration, so I never really think about it. Plus, if spikes were a big deal, people wouldn't shit on Ramuh & Shiva's wards.

Feather Barrier is worthless, and it's not even because of the duration/recast ratio, 30 seconds is a very short amount of time in this game. A pure evasion boosting buff might be interesting, since the buffing jobs that also have that buff are limited to only 2 at at a time, forcing them to cast the most practical effects. Thinking of ways to balance it tears me between its potential usefulness and the general apathy given towards evasion, but there's no reason it should be that short.

Memento Mori is a bit tricky. MAB+20 is more than an 11 on Wizards Roll with a BLM in the PT (+16, if the information is right), so it does need to be weaker in at least one respect. Further, Wizards Roll lasts for 5 minutes and is stackable with MM. Maybe a minute duration, but I think I'd up the recast to 3 minutes.


No one was really saying Exuviationga would break BLU as a tank. As I noted, even at a 2 minute Diffusion recast, Voke creates more VE in the same amount of time (yet 0 CE, but even so, PLDs & NINs can do just as much (and)or more.)

[Spoony Bob]

Looking at the new BLU spells coming, has anyone nailed down what all we'll be getting? I know the Ladybug WS we're getting is damage+acc down and gnoles is the however many hits asuran claws, but aside from that?

[LD]

I've never fought Gnats, so I can't really say, but the current slug attack that best matches the BLU animation would be Purulent Ooze and the Refflesia attack is almost definitely Seedspray.

[Spoony Bob]

effects of those?

[Kaslo]

Ladybug
Spiral Spin
Physical
Damage + Accuracy Down

Gnole (Standing)
Asuran Claws
Physical
Multi-hit melee attack (6?)

Gnat
Pandemic Nip
Magical?
Gives up to five current enfeebles to target

Rafflesia
Seedspray
Physical?
Single-target(?) damage and Defense Down.

Peiste
Magical?
Regurgitation
AoE Damage + Bind

Slugs
Magical?
Purulent Ooze
AoE Damage, Bio, and Max HP Down

[ronin sparthos]

Peiste
Magical?
Regurgitation
AoE Damage + Bind

Aww... so much for getting Delta Thrust.

Fucking Gnats.... i tried soloing one when WotG launched and got my ass handed by unreal evasion from a DC x.x Heres to hoping i can give Cerberus or a Soulflayer back its evil statusbombs >.>;

Asuran Claws.... that might take the spot of Hysteric Barrage in a spellset depending on MP cost that is.

Spiral Spin looks like something you'd get around level 40-50, could replace Uppercut or Mandibular Bite.

Pertulent Ooze will most definately be getting nerfed into the ground x.x

Seedspray looks like it has some potential as well.

Arent the only standing Gnoles the VT Lobisons or Alpha Gnole Anders?

[Mertron]

Arent the only standing Gnoles the VT Lobisons or Alpha Gnole Anders?

Pretty sure all gnoles can stand, but during Full Moon only. Edit: nvm, wrong info. oh well.

Hopefully Asuran Claws will be slashing (since the other multi-hitters arent)....but it will probably be blunt.