Blue Mage: Best thread ever

[Gulkeeva]

Loved /thf for lvling, me and a friend would just toss hate back n forth doing sa death scissors and such.

oh and a fun MPk method was like... sata cannonball since from you -> target distance and anyone in between got the hate (nearest to the target) so... I'd like sneak behind the bard or something thats like afk playing songs and just throw all the hate on'em >.>

Think I only used sj nin for 2 things leveling...
1. The tank sucks
2. Power lvling solo using a friends rdm or something (the hard hitting stuff like the goblins pet leechs at higher levels) or pet bunny's at bibiki bay) 1 shot my blu if not careful ;/

[Alixana]

I definitely think I'll prefer /NIN in the long run, just as I prefer /BLM for RDM. However, although I have hated every minute of it, I also have /WHM at 30 to supplement RDM and will eventually take that to 37, too. In other words, I would hate feeling as if I am not "being all I can be" by having each sub available to me, even if I don't necessarily like it. Although, who knows, maybe I'll LOVE /THF, though I'm not usually motivated by huge numbers, I am going to use the sub that will allow me to perform most optimally. I plan to have THF available for subbing before I hit 60, at the very least. I'm prepared to solo it to 15 using bows and arrows like I did with WAR- can't be that bad.

[Araius]

/THF starts getting good at 40, imo. It's probably worth having at 30 I suppose, but I subbed NIN mostly until 40. At that point you get CA and Mandibular Bite, and Sickle Slash at 48 (I think? It's been a while). Depending on your gear and what you're fighting, you'll get sick enough of "...casts Sickle Slash, but the spell fails to take effect." awfully quick as /NIN. With a competent tank, you won't be pulling enough hate to justify Utsusemi unless you need it for some bad AoE. The main reason I went /NIN from 30-40 is because without having any form of Refresh, it's nice to have two swords to help your damage and TP gain, especially since you don't have CA to blow every 2 minutes regardless of TP. 40's and 60's really shine for /THF though, I strongly suggest trying both out and parsing them to see which you prefer.

[Repairs]

Suggestions for blu changes:

Magic Hammer - change the principle design to be more like Spirit Taker - i.e. you can magic hammer none mp mobs, and still gain mp.

Add more chr high level nukes. Mnd ones too (secondary). Blu should be different then main stream blm -- not int based.

Change the way the setting of blu spells works. I think they should only lock the spells you change and add - any spell that doesn't change should not be inflicted with the 1min wait. Example: If I have plasma charge and Actinic Burst for refresh; Disseverment/Frenetic Rip for accuracy bonus; diamond hide and head butt. If I remove headbutt and put Hysteric barrage; I should still be able to cast Disseverment/Frenetic Rip/diamond hide. They designed blu to be very versatile, so let us be versatile.

Add more base spell points. Merits add 3 points... 3? come on...

Enhancing blu specific spells that need increased duration are: Cocoon, Memento Mori, Warm Up, Amplification, Saline Coat, Reactor Cool, Plasma Charge.

Enfeebling blu: Enervation and Lowering should get increased potency and duration.

Increase physical spell accuracy. Give blu physical spells the 2hnd update (1.5x accuracy and damage) on HNM. I would like to see blu physical more viable in zerg situations. I would rather see a straight boost to the spells, but people would probably say "its too powerful... ", so the solution would be to increase accuracy and damage when using Asure Lore (sp?).

[Suiram]

Add more chr high level nukes. Mnd ones too (secondary). Blu should be different then main stream blm -- not int based.

They don't really have an INT bias as it is. The 3 strongest "BLU Nukes" (non breath/needles) are Firespit, Mind Blast, and Eyes on Me, which are each roughly on par basedamage-wise as a tier 3 nuke, and are INT-based, MND-based, and CHR-based, respectively. Too lazy to log in and verify this, but according to the stat calculator, Hume BLU/BLM has base stats 64INT, 59MND, 60CHR.

Just thinking quickly of gear one can get (I may miss a piece or include something I have that might not be common), gearing for the most damage for each spell, then a Firespit build would have INT+49, MND+37, a Mind Blast build MND+47, and an Eyes on Me build CHR+47 (this is leaving out additional +stat options where someone would pick a piece with MAB on it, as well as food because I did all this math before I remembered it). Then the base damage equations for those spells are as follows:

Firespit: 1.5*dINT + 333 (Compare to Blizzard III, 1.5*dINT + 320)
Mind Blast: 1.5*dMND + 211 (Compare to Stone III, 1.5*dINT + 210)
Eyes on Me: 1.5*dCHR + 291 (Compare to Fire III, 1.5*dINT + 295)

As you can see the strongest spell for each attribute is comparable one in the tier III line of spells. SE seems to be disinclined to give any job other than BLM tier IV spells or equivalent as you can see in the case of SCH, so I don't think that what we have already is particularly unreasonable.

[Kaslo]

Enhancing blu specific spells that need increased duration are: Cocoon, Memento Mori, Warm Up, Amplification, Saline Coat, Reactor Cool, Plasma Charge.

Really Warm-Up, Cocoon, and Memento Mori's duration aren't bad.

Warm-Up's 3 min Acc+Evasion is pretty good when you compare that it's the same duration as Aggressor.

Memento Mori as it stands only lasts for one spell, but for what it does that makes it balanced. Reducing recast time might be nice tho.

Cocoon gives double the defense of Defender with half the duration and none of that silly -Attack, pretty on par imo.

But yes spikes need adjusting :/

[Marcicus]

Cocoon has a 90 second duration and the recast is 60, doesn't need adjusting. >.>

[ronin sparthos]

Of those spells, only Memento Mori, Amplification and Saline Coat need a tweak.

Even with the spikes fixed, i doubt they'd me so much more useful.

[Charismatic]

Cocoon has a 90 second duration and the recast is 60, doesn't need adjusting. >.>

Pretty sure he wants the durations adjusted due to Diffusion.

[Nazrious]

Blu should get auto refresh 2 and 3. I don't care if smns get it it won't allow them to do more then they already do. That or a self only 2mp/tick refresh spell thats stacks with a rdms and brds.

Smns do what they do now giving them auto refresh 3 will not chnage that so much, or just not give them it at all and only give it to blu I don't really care. Smns needs some kind of buff anyway but w/e. I don't really care about smn my point is to give Blu auto refresh 3!

Blus NEED auto refresh 3.

DD can sustain themselves for long durations with out problems
Tanks can also
Healers for the most part can too

of course this is all in the proper pt setups.

But lets take a look at 2 situations.

Merits:

average wanted PT setup rdm brd 3-4 dd tank(or no tank).

in this setup even on birds and getting some good mp returns with the aspir spells we have, at best your stuck using 2DD spells a fight, in reality more like 1DD spell a fight.

Now thats full DD and if you have a pissy rdm who refuses to cast haste then ur using refuel for even more mp inefficiancy.

HNMS/Gods/etc

So now ur in w/e party setup you get tossed into usually in the DD party where there is a healer if ur lucky a refresher if ur blessed.

unlike the sam/thf or (insert /thf) ur limited to a few SACAs then resting then a few more SACAs or SAs or w/e combination therein. given ur resting in between SAs but still unless your fighting stationary mobs this isnt so simple.

on kited mobs ur waiting for the mob to stop to get off your SA/ SACA w/e spell your using. even if your going with cannonball you still want to wait for when the mob is sure to be going strait, and we all know how awsome kiters are in making sure us Blus get those nice strait lines.

So lets use lolkited kirin as most people should have some experince here.

wait for him to stop and do his spells etc, then u run in SACA spell.

now hopefully you werent resting and SA is up cus Kirin isnt gonna wait for u to prep before he continues on in his odd swirving just to avoid your SAs/SACAs pattern.

all the while the other DDs run around in close enough range to hop on any chance they can to get that SAWS off.

Also this is not even taking into consideration that when shit gets kited its not always going to be possible to stop and rest with out the mob going out of range and you possibly missing out on getting off your SA.

Things are easier for those who use cannon over vert but still its rough.

getting that extra 2mp a tick would allow some relief in the never ending mp efficiancy battles Blus are stuck in day in and day out.

ands its not an issue of skill when it comes down to MP efficiancy its something that effects the noob blue and leet blu alike, given the noob might notice it more and much more painfully that doesnt mean the leet blu doesnt feel the mp blues.


My mp is so tiny...
It hurts me a lot!
my mp is so tiny...
it puts me on the spot!
I cant cast many spells now...
never mind my few point slot!
the spells that I can cast...
take my mp to town!
I dont have much MP now...
cus I casted that damnhide!
the tank he did thank me...
but the fresher really minds!
I cant cast my breaths spells!
I cant cast my buffs!
I cant cast my heals!
no no I am stuck!
stuck to one spell!
one spell per fight!
and that damn spell now...
Is getting used all night!
my poor mp pooool my lack of reeefresh!
these are the things a Blu cant put to rest!
I got the blu blues the mp blu blues...
I got the blues!

but yeah seriously a little love in the mp regain area or a reduction in spell cost would help out blu a lot.

excuse the horrible atempt at song writting. (hides)

[Kenji]

To help BLU's mana regen, I'd go with something more original. Let them learn Battery Recharge - self-restore a chunk of mana. For example, 10 mana to get back 200, cooldown 3 minutes. Adjust the numbers, the cooldown, etc. to balance it. Kind of a self-refresh.

It might become something that BLU's *have* to set, tho.

[LeifofKujata]

making Magic Hammer pure Spirit Taker like dmg:mp with slighty better dmg acc would solve a lot of your MP issues for those "Blu MP blues" as you so called it, auto-refresh 3 just seems too, I don't know... much?

[SilverBreeze]

To help BLU's mana regen, I'd go with something more original. Let them learn Battery Recharge - self-restore a chunk of mana. For example, 10 mana to get back 200, cooldown 3 minutes. Adjust the numbers, the cooldown, etc. to balance it. Kind of a self-refresh.

It might become something that BLU's *have* to set, tho.

Amen.

Everytime I fight a Pot and i see them use Mana Battery, I always think to myself. "

"Why the hell don't we have that?"

[Alixana]

To help BLU's mana regen, I'd go with something more original. Let them learn Battery Recharge - self-restore a chunk of mana. For example, 10 mana to get back 200, cooldown 3 minutes. Adjust the numbers, the cooldown, etc. to balance it. Kind of a self-refresh.

It might become something that BLU's *have* to set, tho.

Amen.

Everytime I fight a Pot and i see them use Mana Battery, I always think to myself. "

"Why the hell don't we have that?"

Me too. -.- Actually, it could be like Charge in FF12, if you all have ever played that. You get mana back, but you also have a chance to lose ALL of your mana doing it; so there is an essence of randomness. Would be cool, I think.

Off topic: SSB Brawl release delay FTL.

[Charismatic]

To help BLU's mana regen, I'd go with something more original. Let them learn Battery Recharge - self-restore a chunk of mana. For example, 10 mana to get back 200, cooldown 3 minutes. Adjust the numbers, the cooldown, etc. to balance it. Kind of a self-refresh.

It might become something that BLU's *have* to set, tho.

Amen.

Everytime I fight a Pot and i see them use Mana Battery, I always think to myself. "

"Why the hell don't we have that?"

Me too. -.- Actually, it could be like Charge in FF12, if you all have ever played that. You get mana back, but you also have a chance to lose ALL of your mana doing it; so there is an essence of randomness. Would be cool, I think.

Off topic: SSB Brawl release delay FTL.

Yes, but you see, Charge had no cooldown.
That's the only reason it wasn't shit.

[Alixana]

Yeah, I was thinking Charge just like it is in FF12. Or alternately, instead of a fixed amount of MP, Charge could either replenish your bar to 100%, or back to 0. It's a bit risky, but actually I think I'd use something like that. No monster has that now but hey, that's not so hard to add in. Just thinking of ideas...I'd be happy with the Magic Pot version, to be honest.

[Nazrious]

auto refresh 3 for a Blu would not be over powered. rdms get refresh and convert a 2mp/tick refresh spell or trait isnt asking for much when it comes to a job that is so limited by how fast they get mana back. I mean hey in a perfect world I'd be blu burning with a cor brd rdm and 2 of my Blu friends getting crazy mp regain but its not a perfect world and I don't have friends with those specific jobs leveled.

and to tell you the truth i doubt that pt setup would do better then brd brd rdm war x3 or brd rdm war 3 dd etc etc.

With the awsome pt setup of cor brd rdm blux3 ur still only looking at 2 maybe 3 spells a fight. now I'm not saying thats not some sick damage but it wouldnt be game breaking either a solid pt setup for sure but nothing to write home about.

now take a step back and drop down to reality and brd rdm ddx4 = no one is rly going to want a blu unless 1 they know that blu is well geared and knows how to play 2 the rdm isnt going to be a dick and whine about having to refresh some one other than themselves.

and even when that pt has the rdm who doesn't whine your still looking at stretching your MP over 100 consective fights with no resting at all after chain 6 is hit... not that there will be any chance for resting chain 1-5 but some pts like to build to chain 6 b4 they go full swing, w/e.

so lets say the rdm is being really nice today and is refresh/hasting you.

your going to only be using Diss. once per fight so thats 7,400 mp over 100 fights.

100 fights x30secs a fight = 3000mp 3mp/tick
100 fights x30secs a fight= 1000mp 1mp/tick x 2 (auto refresh and sanction/sigil)

so thats a regeneration of 5000mp... lets say u started with 500mp at the start of the fight (not if ur elvaan or galka and wearing proper dd gear)

thats 5,500mp hmm a simple 2 more mp /tick puts us right where we need to be.

I didn't pull auto refresh3 out of my ass I actually took the time to do the math.

if your asking yourself so how the hell does Blu make it to chain 100?

simply put with a lil luck. your looking to aspir mp from mobs with mp, so if u happen to be in an area with out aspirable mobs your just sol.

but in a coli camp or most merit camps your pretty much fine... you know if you had that 2mp/tick extra.
oh not to mention the luck part because <sarcasm> I always land those sweet 100+ aspir spells, and I never ever end up losing more mp then I get back <sarcasm>

but considering aspir spells can be as friendly as 2 dollar hookers after they been paid and your asking for a refund and that Blus lack that oh so needed extra 2mp/tick, Blus must resort to silly almost nonsensical ways to maintain their mp while they fight.

1) make sure ur pimped out in every possible slot and lose a head and body slot to equip a vermy here and there, also as soon as mob is dead and there isnt a mob right in front of you waiting to die... <sarcasm> because this happens all the time <sarcasm>

2) use meds to get some minor mp back.. I have not gone this route but to each their own.

3) sit out a fight here and their to fully rest mp... sure hope the rest of your party is pimped enough to keep the chain... and if they are why the hell do they need you?

4) forgo melee brd buffs for Ballad1 and 2.

granted over the duration that would come to 3000mp putting you well over that needed amount of mp

or even if you only took ballad 2 2000mp which would be the sweet spot.

but there are some problems with this.

a) your forgoing an acc buff or haste or melee depending on the pt setup, but lets go with the usuall atk and haste or acc haste

while you might scoff at the atk buff thats free damage added to your swings, you know that other part of a Blus DD and in merit pts a major part of a blus DD.

if you forgo the acc buff then your hurting your spells and melee, while some argue that you can hit the acc cap thats pretty much wrong Diss never suffers from too much acc and even a fully pimped Blu homama etc could still do well to have that aditional acc.

and then theres the haste <sarcasm> well who needs haste right? <sarcasm>

b) brds, even the best, tend to slack off casting double ballad on the healers, while too some 5-8 seconds to cast ballad1 seems like nothing to a brd its a whole lot.

10-16 seconds to buff melee 5-8 seconds to buff healer and a whole 6-15 seconds to find something to pull... not exactly sure on the the exact -spell casting time that a brd in full haste gear and hasted is looking at but pretty sure its around those numbers.

c) when the brd does cast ballad your ass better be near the healer and back to the melee in time to kill that mob.
guess what brds tend to buff everyone while the fight is going on so your taking your self out of a fight to get ballad for a solid 10 seconds
you have to run to healer wait for buff then target and engage mob.
Thats 33% of a fight!
and yes you will have to make sure that the brd buffs the healer first and not the melee.
which may or may not be viable.


Now all this silly shit that gimps blu can be taken care of by simply giving us auto refresh 3 or a 2mp/tick self refresh or battery charge or making it possible to aspir mobs even when they dont have mp, and make those aspir spells more accurate and more reliable.

I just think auto refresh 3, a self refresh, or battery charge would be easier. and not a lol battery charge either a battery charge that restores at least 110ish mp for like 30ish cost and has a low casting time like 2-4 seconds, not 12-15 seconds a recast time of like 3min wouldn't be to bad either.

[Arkanna]

We don't need Auto Refresh 3, end of story. I could see them giving us 2, allowing us to sacrifice more set points in order to get an additional 1 MP per tic back, OR altering the mechanics of Magic Hammer so it acts like Spirit Taker, but not both. We don't need both, and we certainly do not need Auto Refresh 3.

(Before you spout more bullshit, my longest merit chain was 441, at Mamool Ja SP. I didn't parse it, and I'm sure the other MP-less DD's did more damage over the course of the party than I did, but I contributed plenty with sword DoT and Head Butt, with the occasional Disseverment thrown in on harder targets like wyverns.)

If a 75 BLU gears properly and doesn't gimp his way through his merit pt's, he DOESN'T HAVE TO CAST as much, thus removing the MP problem. I know this, as do many others on here.

[Repairs]

Suiram:

The only time blu needs to nuke is HNM (VT and lower, physical spells excel). If set-up correct (merits, equip, etc.); they are a half-decent nuking machine. But what stands out most to me is: Mind blast = stone 3 – the weakest tier 3 nuke possible… how often do see a blm ever use stone3?; probably .001% of their entire nuking career. Eye’s on me, compared to Fire3 is half decent, but it is more to the fact that it is a Dark and Demon based spell (perfect for dragon HNM’s) – really should be more like thunder 3 (both sch and rdm get thunder3). Firespit is suppose to come close to bliz 3, but bliz 3 allows you to wear ice staff (or HQ version), which automatically makes it much better. They have basically give blu the weakest tier 3 spells – not comparable.

You can’t really compare blu nuking to sch, as sch has abilities to increase their damage/spell cast/access to higher damage spell/etc. so they will beat blu 99% of time (even if an increase in base damage or more powerful spells). Not to mention, sch is suppose to be more of a support role. Blu comes closer to rdm, yet 80% of the time rdm will out nuke a blu (thunder 3, bliz 3); and they don’t want rdm to be a nuker – they want it more to use weapons/melee.

To efficiently use any job, you try to focus everything on the modifiers. By having 3 different “based” spells (Mnd, Chr, Int) you cannot maximize your performance. It’s like making all thunder spell chr based, and all bliz spells mnd based. Essentially, making thunder very unattractive and bliz so so.

Gear-wise, your looking at the Morrigan’s set, which is good for the Mind blast and Fire-spit (but Firespit is really too situational). Make a light and dark based mnd spell and blu would be rocking.

Hopefully they make 2 different sets of blu AF2 (or blu specific sets): nuking AF2 (magic accuracy, magic attack, mnd, and chr) and physical AF2 (str, dex, vit, potency, accuracy).


Kaslo :

Warm-up – half decent… +10acc, +10 eva is ok, but, you are limited with spell points/slots… so it’s actually not very useful. Aggressor (free ability) is 25% accuracy, which can also be merited shorter… can’t compare that. I would love to see +20 acc & +20 eva, but don’t think that’s going to happen (or making it last 5min). For 59mp, it’s just not that useful.

Memento Mori: for what it does? It’s not worth crap for the mp cost. Oooo, I get to add 20 magic attack, to my sub-par spells… so it adds 20-50 damage? It is definitely completely crap for Magic Hammer (in my experience). It requires a change to either: increase duration and/or decrease recast and mp cost. Personally prefer increase duration, making it more viable in multiple situations.

Cocoon: great spell, short duration. Increase duration to 5min. Just personal preference: less casting of enhancing crap, and more giving the beat-down on the mob.

---

Maybe adjust Diffusion to also increase duration of the spell cast. Like make it last the recast of Diffusion!! lol jj.

-- Edit:
Everythng blu is limited due spell points and slots available, even if they make better spells (physical/magical) we are still hampered by the point/slots. Especially when anyone is comparing to any other job... since all other jobs have access to all spells/abilities. Even if they made all blu spells better then another job, we still couldn't equip them all.

Also have to think about the stat's and/or traits which limits blu even more, because some of the necessary spell combo's (refresh,etc.).

As for the new spells... I'm hoping they are not lvl50 or below. We need more "useful" spells, not spells that will help new blu's get to 75.

[Repairs]

As for testing physical potency merits...

Test: compare damage of EM mobs = no difference. YZX/someone (sorry can't remember off the top of my head...) tested and couldn't find any conclusive evidence in damage. Can't remember specific spells right now, but I believe high level tier where not tested. Nor with CA.
I think this proved that it is not a base damage increase. Which lead to the belief that potency = accuracy. But I think other variables need testing:

VT+ mobs (i.e. lvl correlation)
High level spells (i.e. reaching blu magic skill cap)
CA

I think the only way I can really test is while soloing imps... and removing all my potency merits... which really doesn't seem feasible right now (until I get more free time). You need hundreds of attempted spells to get semi-accurate results... so... If someone out there has just reached 75 (or haven't meritted potency) and are soloing imps for exp/merits; they could post all their damage for fren rip/disevernment.

Base stats you would need (while casting the spell), to be able to compare to my results are:

117 str
82 dex
307 blu skill
290 sword skill
24-30 accuarcy (gear)
Sushi

I don't think it would prove too much, but would lead us in the right direction. If you have similar stats and show a negative 10-30 ave/damage, it would prove its not just accuracy.