Blue Mage: Best thread ever

[FinalJustice]

Well yea, thats a given. SATA VC, SATA Death Scissors, and Cannobal with or w/o SATA do well. But cant compare to a Cannonball build. I guess its because CB has an additional modifier the other spells dont have, by taking into account your DEF. Ive thought about this, and wondered if i would wish for the same modifier on ATTK on other spells, but feared that may be waaaay to powerful. But then again, such a change "could" very well break the /THF reliance?

[Force-Attuned Krogoth]

The thing about cannonball is it requires so much effort to do what it does. And that effort could be used for something else instead. (Note: I'm not talking about gear.) You need double minne which, aside from the hassle of it being AoE, could be double str etude. Tacos which could be dragon-based food (7 str, whee). 300TP which could be two or more SA/TA/CA spells, or full TP cleave to effect a similar amount of pDIF that cannonball has. If you're using CA, the def correlation of cannonball isn't the primary advantage of cannonball, because VC does the same using TP. Cannonball wins on hit-for-hit damage because of the vit mod and the fact that it has a little (not very much) higher multiplier at 300 TP than VC, at the cost of the effort of getting all that def and 300TP. I only use CB on kited mobs or flying dragons, where the range is useful. Otherwise, I'll take two cleaves at 150TP over one 300TP CB.

[Nazrious]

My biggest gripe with blu is that beyond Cannonball, nothing else seems to scale well on harder HNM.
Idk, maybe im doing something wrong. But most spells you throw at HNM fall flat on their face in damage.

This is why i see the point of what someone said that Blu replaces nothing on most endgame things, and if you have other jobs, most of the time you'll be asked to come on something else. I guess its situational. Because your dmg like stated is much better on things you dont kite, and also on things you can sata.

But besides a cannonball setup, most anything else physical doesnt hit worth a damn. Diss, FR, HB i seem to pull off 160s is that. Seems kinda silly to bust out a 500-800 on a IT mob only to land a 100 on a HNM. I guess its resists. Meanwhile most melee seem to land the same WS dmg they land in merit parties. Hi2u 1.2k Sam ws' on Kirin. While I realize i can pull off "similar" numbers with the proper Cannonball build i would like to see more use of other spells that arent so reliant on SATA. Even if i was only able to land a 400-500 lone Disservment on faf i would be happy. And i don't think that should be unreasonable.

Perhaps this will change if SE decides to give more Blue skill? Or maybe they can just simply adjust the resist rate vs higher lvl stuff maybe. Maybe if the resists werent so bad for other spells, we would hear "*insert LS name application page*: Now looking for BLUs", "get that blu in the alliance" "can you please come on blu?" a little more often. I dont need to be the TOP DD either, let the jobs that focus on DDing only be that. But i would still like to be comparable.

How do the rest of you feel about none Cannonball spells on HNM?

Discuss!

its already been discussed u told me to shut up, don't ask for discussing now because I'll discuss and you will just have to live with it all!

I say we move away from the blu needs tweaking liek this or that for a while.

and move toward getting other players to do things that allow Blus to shine just the way they are.

Blu tanks
Rdm/dnc making Blu merits awsome
more and more
come change the way the world thinks.

[Charismatic]

its already been discussed u told me to shut up, don't ask for discussing now because I'll discuss and you will just have to live with it all!

I say we move away from the blu needs tweaking liek this or that for a while.

and move toward getting other players to do things that allow Blus to shine just the way they are.

Blu tanks
Rdm/dnc making Blu merits awsome
more and more
come change the way the world thinks.

What the fuck are you talking about?

[fantasticdan]

The thing about cannonball is it requires so much effort to do what it does. And that effort could be used for something else instead. (Note: I'm not talking about gear.) You need double minne which, aside from the hassle of it being AoE, could be double str etude. Tacos which could be dragon-based food (7 str, whee). 300TP which could be two or more SA/TA/CA spells, or full TP cleave to effect a similar amount of pDIF that cannonball has. If you're using CA, the def correlation of cannonball isn't the primary advantage of cannonball, because VC does the same using TP. Cannonball wins on hit-for-hit damage because of the vit mod and the fact that it has a little (not very much) higher multiplier at 300 TP than VC, at the cost of the effort of getting all that def and 300TP. I only use CB on kited mobs or flying dragons, where the range is useful. Otherwise, I'll take two cleaves at 150TP over one 300TP CB.

1. You don't need 300tp, or minnes for cannonball to be effective.
2. The reason cannonball scales so much better on higher level mobs, is because defense functions as attack (somehow), not because of the multiplier.
3. TP does virtually nothing (or just plain nothing) for CASA vertical cleave, go test it out...

[LD]

its already been discussed u told me to shut up, don't ask for discussing now because I'll discuss and you will just have to live with it all!

I say we move away from the blu needs tweaking liek this or that for a while.

and move toward getting other players to do things that allow Blus to shine just the way they are.

Blu tanks
Rdm/dnc making Blu merits awsome
more and more
come change the way the world thinks.

What the fuck are you talking about?

Fucking Seriously.

That has to be the worst cop out I've ever heard. "My ideas are shit, so maybe you should try harder!"
Awesome.

[Nazrious]

you quoted us both who you talking about?

[Charismatic]

Think about it for a second, which one makes sense?

[Nazrious]

its already been discussed u told me to shut up, don't ask for discussing now because I'll discuss and you will just have to live with it all!

I say we move away from the blu needs tweaking liek this or that for a while.

and move toward getting other players to do things that allow Blus to shine just the way they are.

Blu tanks
Rdm/dnc making Blu merits awsome
more and more
come change the way the world thinks.

What the fuck are you talking about?

Fucking Seriously.


That has to be the worst cop out I've ever heard. "My ideas are shit, so maybe you should try harder!"
Awesome.

I dunno, I never called this guys ideas shit never even said anything about this dude. and if hes talking about people telling me to shut up about the blu changes still don't get it? how did I cop out I just stopped bothering after repeating myself so many times to people who, for every post I made, stated that blu was fine the way it was and I was trying to limit it's versatility.
Then came the guy, who himself had told me to shut up more then once, with the crying wiki sig talking about how Blus should be given more of an edge in endgame DD. also after several post which summed up the entire silly debate very well.

[Howard Roark]

Blu tanks
Rdm/dnc making Blu merits awsome
more and more
come change the way the world thinks.

you sir are the john mayer of bad ffxi poetry/mission statements for the inept

[Nazrious]

Blu tanks
Rdm/dnc making Blu merits awsome
more and more
come change the way the world thinks.

you sir are the john mayer of bad ffxi poetry/mission statements for the inept

yippy do I get a cookie now?

[Kaslo]

The thing about cannonball is it requires so much effort to do what it does. And that effort could be used for something else instead. (Note: I'm not talking about gear.) You need double minne which, aside from the hassle of it being AoE, could be double str etude. Tacos which could be dragon-based food (7 str, whee). 300TP which could be two or more SA/TA/CA spells, or full TP cleave to effect a similar amount of pDIF that cannonball has. If you're using CA, the def correlation of cannonball isn't the primary advantage of cannonball, because VC does the same using TP. Cannonball wins on hit-for-hit damage because of the vit mod and the fact that it has a little (not very much) higher multiplier at 300 TP than VC, at the cost of the effort of getting all that def and 300TP. I only use CB on kited mobs or flying dragons, where the range is useful. Otherwise, I'll take two cleaves at 150TP over one 300TP CB.

1. You don't need 300tp, or minnes for cannonball to be effective.
2. The reason cannonball scales so much better on higher level mobs, is because defense functions as attack (somehow), not because of the multiplier.
3. TP does virtually nothing (or just plain nothing) for CASA vertical cleave, go test it out...

qft on many different levels

[Tonko]

BLU suffers horribly from the level adjustment brought on by very very high level HNMs. It's why we can rape VTs and under with no problems solo. BLU/THF cannonball on Khim Cerb and flying Tiamat / Jimmy is about all the place BLU has in the HNM arena.

We ARE the best choice for jailer of temperance, and Omega / Ultima we can do our role as well decently. But outside of that... other jobs can do what we do better, but they can't do everything that we can do all at once. As BLU we can DD, enfeeble, and heal all at once. No other job can do that, but any other job can do one of those three roles better than we can.

[Zalius]

yeah can you imagine how op you'd be if they didn't nerf red lotus blade with the blm scare of 06

[FinalJustice]

its already been discussed u told me to shut up, don't ask for discussing now because I'll discuss and you will just have to live with it all!

1) I DARE you to quote where specifically told YOU to shut the fuck up.
2) Youre not the only person talking in this thread, so WHY you think im talking to you is beyond me, its clear from my earlier posts what i think of you.
3) I could care less about YOUR opinion about Blu, i skip over every fucking post you make, and the only reason i notice THIS line, is because i saw that someone quoted what i said.
4) You dont fucking own this thread 123 pages (more if you count the initial trimming) after the fact, so you are the last person to tell anyone whats been discussed, and what we aren't discussing around here.
5) Feel free to reply to this thread till youre blue in the face, ill only skip over it, and this time I wont care that you quote me.
6) You child, are an idiot The fact that you were so easily confused by someone quoting 2 ppl shows how much of a dumbass you are. Carry on.

anyways.......

BLU suffers horribly from the level adjustment brought on by very very high level HNMs. It's why we can rape VTs and under with no problems solo. BLU/THF cannonball on Khim Cerb and flying Tiamat / Jimmy is about all the place BLU has in the HNM arena.

Thats pretty much it right there. I think the lvl adjustments are off, and SE hasn't really addressed it. I mean they addressed it with Automation pets by adding parts that specifically adjust stats vs higher lvl mobs. Wish they'd do it to blu hehe. Can you imagine how different Blus role would be if it could do the same damage it does to the HNM in FL assaults? The dmg blu does to those imo is how blu should be lol. Blu still isnt the TOP DD on those either.

[LinktheDeme]

its already been discussed u told me to shut up, don't ask for discussing now because I'll discuss and you will just have to live with it all!

1) I DARE you to quote where specifically told YOU to shut the fuck up.
2) Youre not the only person talking in this thread, so WHY you think im talking to you is beyond me, its clear from my earlier posts what i think of you.
3) I could care less about YOUR opinion about Blu, i skip over every fucking post you make, and the only reason i notice THIS line, is because i saw that someone quoted what i said.
4) You dont fucking own this thread 123 pages (more if you count the initial trimming) after the fact, so you are the last person to tell anyone whats been discussed, and what we aren't discussing around here.
5) Feel free to reply to this thread till youre blue in the face, ill only skip over it, and this time I wont care that you quote me.
6) You child, are an idiot The fact that you were so easily confused by someone quoting 2 ppl shows how much of a dumbass you are. Carry on.

anyways.......

[quote:33ekyksq]
BLU suffers horribly from the level adjustment brought on by very very high level HNMs. It's why we can rape VTs and under with no problems solo. BLU/THF cannonball on Khim Cerb and flying Tiamat / Jimmy is about all the place BLU has in the HNM arena.

Thats pretty much it right there. I think the lvl adjustments are off, and SE hasn't really addressed it. I mean they addressed it with Automation pets by adding parts that specifically adjust stats vs higher lvl mobs. Wish they'd do it to blu hehe. Can you imagine how different Blus role would be if it could do the same damage it does to the HNM in FL assaults? The dmg blu does to those imo is how blu should be lol. Blu still isnt the TOP DD on those either.[/quote:33ekyksq]

btw whats the original youtube video of your sig? I saw it in meet the spartans preview and now im wondering wtf

[Bonisagius]

As a lvl 55 BLU currently, I have to say that I am eager to take BLU through the next 20^^.
That said, I do have a small list of complaints.

My biggest complaint is how favoring the physical spells are of STR, almost to exclusion. That said, a lot of this has to with my toon being a taru who hasn't been able to spend the time/patience to farm up the gil to buy better gear. That in mind, I wouldn't mind seeing some more physical spells that are modified by AGI (taru's second best inherent stat). I know, I know, "There's more then enough gear to make up the difference" and while I wholeheartedly agree to this fact, I do believe my point still stands and I would be ecstatic if cannonball was restated to be AGI modified( from what I understand, it's a ranged physical spell, how could it not be modified by AGI?).

My only other gripe is that from that of the 5 legacy blue spells ( Self-Destruct, Bad Breath, 1,000 Needles, Mind Blast, Magic Hammer), Bad Breath and 1,000 Needles are well below par, or that's from the accounts I've read. Reading that a spell that could do 1k damage/x opponents costs 350 mp (making it the most expensive spell in the game), requires 5 blue points to equip, has AWFUL accuracy, and takes 12 secs to cast (therefore making it impossible to self magic burst on to increase it's accuracy) is depressing. It's basically the worst Ancient Magic level spell in the game. All I want is to see the elders of the blue magic spells get the respect they deserve, not to be poorly represented as mere echoes of their former selves. I'd also kill every RMT IRL if that would get SE to implement for us a few other legacy spells like White Wind (frikkin' selfish puks ><), Mighty/Big Guard, and maybe even Angel's Whisper and/or Shadow Flare, Grand Train, or ????/Revenge.

/gripefest off ^^

Despite all of my complaining, I love playing blue mage, I plan to enjoy the job as fully as possible and make the most of what I can do (even if it means farming up gil until I become a blind, drooling vegetable but that's a different matter entirely).

[Coolmints]

For those who are curious about the damage output of a nearly full merited blu/nin VS. half merited BB mnk at bird camp.
We had 1 rdm that sometimes give me refresh and haste the dds, and a brd that do 2x attack songs.

==== Setup ====
The mnk had some h2h merit and use Pahluwan Khazagand, sniper+1, pcc, bb belt, and destroyer etc.
The blu had homam body, and other decent acc gears.
The nin had full haste gears, pcc, etc and didn't know if he had full merit.
The war was nq and afk for a few fights.

The blu gear-swapped a lot for healing breeze (250-ish curaga) with 110mnd, and spammed magic drinkkiss. The blu cured 40-50% of total party damage, but its not a lot since mob died so fast for chain#100+.
For damage, the gear-swap gave 110-ish str, and didn't have problem with MP for casting 1 disseverment and 1 frenetic rip almost every battle. Of course, blu had sanction refresh and conserve MP/refresh job trait.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...bluVsMnk-1.jpg

Here was the most recent parse for a fully merited blu VS. fully merited war at Greater Colibri camp.
=== SETUP ===
Coolmints BLU merit: 8/8 sword, 5/5 str, 3/3 physical potency (lol still don't know what it does), 3/3 tp bonus, CA recast 4/5, 1/5 magic acc. Perdu hangar, homam body, etc. 115-130 str and 65-70 dex when casting disseverment. NO healing breeze was being casted to observe the all out damage output. (well I casted two times)

Kuzuhusa WAR merit: 8/8 GAX, hauby, byakko pant, etc, he claimed he has max out merit, use Perdu GAX, and maat cap O_O.
he first voked, and then ppl proceeded to spam ws and spells to pull hate

Husay and Tfo are lvl75, they have so-so gears no byakko etc.

1 whm that casted haste full time on Kuzuhusa and no haste for me though he used devotion on me and 1 brd that full time Attack songs and Haste songs.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...meritVSWAR.jpg

=== Observation ===
A good max merit WAR can outperform a good max merit BLU by 10% when there is no refresh spell on BLU.

A rough obervation I made recently was every 5 tp used on CA disseverment yields 1 acc. Would be great if someone can test it, but would be hard. I noticed that I land all 5 hits often with total 370 acc + 15 acc (from 45tp +30tp bonus), the mnk from the first parse claimed he had no problem landing all asuran fist hits at 388-ish total acc.

[Kenji]

Thought I'd post here, to get more opinion from the more experienced BLU's. This is a list of the possible changes to the job, that various BLU's have thrown out. If you could only have 2 of these, which two would you take? And which two could you live without? These are in no particular order:

- 1000 needles adjusts so that it hits more often and a slightly reduced MP cost
- The following spells get extended duration: Amplification, Saline Coat, Reactor Cool, Plasma Charge.
- A macro command to set Blue Spells (/emptyset removes all the set blue spells, /set "Plasma Charge" would set that spell)
- New spells: Mighty Guard(protect and shell for party), Battery Charge(self MP restore), and White Wind, any others?
- Multi-hit Blue spells giving ony 5 TP per hit to the target instead of 10 per hit.
- Azure Lore should open a BLU's entire spellbook for its duration.

If what you want isn't listed, then suggest it. And let's see if we can push through at least a few desired changes. No, auto refresh II and III aren't going on the list.

[ronin sparthos]

- The following spells get extended duration: Amplification, Saline Coat, Reactor Cool, Plasma Charge.

- New spells: Mighty Guard(protect and shell for party), Battery Charge(self MP restore), and White Wind, any others?