Blue Mage: Best thread ever

[Nny]

Nynja and, to a lesser extent, yourself jumped on Aurik for questioning your results about if the -DEF actually effected the damage. I was just pointing out in more detail about why your results are questionable.

Or he's using an NQ Anelace since the only better sword at 75 would be Shiva's Shotel (kinda rare since no one farms the avatar BCNM) if "TP Bonus" has no affect on BLU spells during chain affinity.

Ifrit's Sword, Jagdplaute +1, and Wing Sword+1 all have decent stats (STR+3 for spell damage + comparedable DMG/DLY to the other swords for DoT [sans Shiva's Shotel]).

[aurik]

had to wait for Moochi to reply, otherwise my post (which was gonna be something along the lines of "what kind of damage increase would you expect ?? bumping 100 dmg spells to 300 dmg ??") would be precieved as an attack on aurik...

Didn't Septimus tell you to knock it off?

stuff

Anyway, Moochi, I'm not saying your info sucks. In fact, thanks for the data points. I'm just pointing out that your results, to me, seem within the margin of error. It's really hard to prove such a minor effect (10% increase) to such a wide-ranging skill (30% natural variability) without lots of well-controlled tests or deliberately exaggerated circumstances.

[Lordwafik]

lol @ Darlene

[Nny]

lol @ Darlene

I had the biggest crush on Darlene when I was like 13 8)

[Moochi]

lol that didn't work out really well. since it's a "changing image" (dunno wth it's called) I saw a pic of a dude.

I didn't really jump aurik if I may say so myself. Anyways, not much I can say. You'll see for yourself when you get up there. In my experience lowering the mobs defence does help but raising your attack does not (for physcial spells). It's may sound weird.

[Nny]

lol that didn't work out really well. since it's a "changing image" (dunno wth it's called) I saw a pic of a dude.

At first I thought he was a fellow Kenna fan.

I didn't really jump aurik if I may say so myself. Anyways, not much I can say. You'll see for yourself when you get up there. In my experience lowering the mobs defence does help but raising your attack does not (for physcial spells). It's may sound weird.

I wasn't trying to say you were wrong or anything like that. Actually, probably the best way to test it is against Crawlers. Cocoon is a 50% increase in DEF, compared to Fightful Roar only being 20%. Just harder to test since you have to hope that the mob does it before it's at too low of HP. I'll try testing it once server comes back up.

[aurik]

lol that didn't work out really well. since it's a "changing image" (dunno wth it's called) I saw a pic of a dude.

At first I thought he was a fellow Kenna fan.

I didn't really jump aurik if I may say so myself. Anyways, not much I can say. You'll see for yourself when you get up there. In my experience lowering the mobs defence does help but raising your attack does not (for physcial spells). It's may sound weird.

I wasn't trying to say you were wrong or anything like that. Actually, probably the best way to test it is against Crawlers. Cocoon is a 50% increase in DEF, compared to Fightful Roar only being 20%. Just harder to test since you have to hope that the mob does it before it's at too low of HP. I'll try testing it once server comes back up.

You can also further exaggerate circumstances by adding dia.

It's quite possible that the game is doing something wonky like comparing your blue magic vs defense, which would explain why attack doesn't seem to figure. But I think it's premature to come to that conclusion.

[NynJa]

had to wait for Moochi to reply, otherwise my post (which was gonna be something along the lines of "what kind of damage increase would you expect ?? bumping 100 dmg spells to 300 dmg ??") would be precieved as an attack on aurik...

Didn't Septimus tell you to knock it off?

Thanks for exemplifying my point to precision.



a 15-20% dmg bonus isnt anything to scoff at, considering frightful roar does lower defence by 20%. If you work by numbers, its just 15-20 extra dmg, so some bigger dmg spells may be in order for more accurate testing (ie: will it pump SA Death Scissors from 1200 to 1500 or from 1200 to 1220).

[aurik]

had to wait for Moochi to reply, otherwise my post (which was gonna be something along the lines of "what kind of damage increase would you expect ?? bumping 100 dmg spells to 300 dmg ??") would be precieved as an attack on aurik...

Didn't Septimus tell you to knock it off?

Thanks for exemplifying my point to precision.



a 15-20% dmg bonus isnt anything to scoff at, considering frightful roar does lower defence by 20%. If you work by numbers, its just 15-20 extra dmg, so some bigger dmg spells may be in order for more accurate testing (ie: will it pump SA Death Scissors from 1200 to 1500 or from 1200 to 1220).

Nobody here is scoffing at 15-20% dmg bonus, we're questioning whether it is a real effect that lowering defense impacts dmg while raising attack doesn't. That's quite unique.

[Koyangi]

had to wait for Moochi to reply, otherwise my post (which was gonna be something along the lines of "what kind of damage increase would you expect ?? bumping 100 dmg spells to 300 dmg ??") would be precieved as an attack on aurik...

Didn't Septimus tell you to knock it off?

Thanks for exemplifying my point to precision.



a 15-20% dmg bonus isnt anything to scoff at, considering frightful roar does lower defence by 20%. If you work by numbers, its just 15-20 extra dmg, so some bigger dmg spells may be in order for more accurate testing (ie: will it pump SA Death Scissors from 1200 to 1500 or from 1200 to 1220).

Nobody here is scoffing at 15-20% dmg bonus, we're questioning whether it is a real effect that lowering defense impacts dmg while raising attack doesn't. That's quite unique.

The same is true for SMN's aside from 5 merits in attack, and af2 feet, the only way we can increase dmg is through making enemy weaker with choke/dia etc.

[aurik]

had to wait for Moochi to reply, otherwise my post (which was gonna be something along the lines of "what kind of damage increase would you expect ?? bumping 100 dmg spells to 300 dmg ??") would be precieved as an attack on aurik...

Didn't Septimus tell you to knock it off?

Thanks for exemplifying my point to precision.



a 15-20% dmg bonus isnt anything to scoff at, considering frightful roar does lower defence by 20%. If you work by numbers, its just 15-20 extra dmg, so some bigger dmg spells may be in order for more accurate testing (ie: will it pump SA Death Scissors from 1200 to 1500 or from 1200 to 1220).

Nobody here is scoffing at 15-20% dmg bonus, we're questioning whether it is a real effect that lowering defense impacts dmg while raising attack doesn't. That's quite unique.

The same is true for SMN's aside from 5 merits in attack, and af2 feet, the only way we can increase dmg is through making enemy weaker with choke/dia etc.

Well, that's because it's comparing avatar attack versus mob defense. Raising attack does indeed increase damage in your example, but the summon's attack, not the summoner's.

This is potentially comparing some non-attack number versus mob defense. Quite different.

[Koyangi]

[quote=aurik]

had to wait for Moochi to reply, otherwise my post (which was gonna be something along the lines of "what kind of damage increase would you expect ?? bumping 100 dmg spells to 300 dmg ??") would be precieved as an attack on aurik...

Didn't Septimus tell you to knock it off?

Thanks for exemplifying my point to precision.



a 15-20% dmg bonus isnt anything to scoff at, considering frightful roar does lower defence by 20%. If you work by numbers, its just 15-20 extra dmg, so some bigger dmg spells may be in order for more accurate testing (ie: will it pump SA Death Scissors from 1200 to 1500 or from 1200 to 1220).

Nobody here is scoffing at 15-20% dmg bonus, we're questioning whether it is a real effect that lowering defense impacts dmg while raising attack doesn't. That's quite unique.

The same is true for SMN's aside from 5 merits in attack, and af2 feet, the only way we can increase dmg is through making enemy weaker with choke/dia etc.

Well, that's because it's comparing avatar attack versus mob defense. Raising attack does indeed increase damage in your example, but the summon's attack, not the summoner's.

This is potentially comparing some non-attack number versus mob defense. Quite different.[/quote:085fc]
I'm sorry it came out a little different, what I meant is, in both cases here, aside from leveling up, and with merits (which I'll assume BLU will get something very similar to what SMN has), we are stuck with smn and blu to debuffing mob to increase dmg, instead of buffing something on our side.

[Moochi]

Here it is:

Lowering a mobs defence increase physical spell dmg.

[Demetrios]

Here it is:

Lowering a mobs defence increase physical spell dmg.

mmmmmm

Blue magic skill = blue's "attack" for physical spells? Does anyone notice their head butt damage going up as they get higher blue magic skill(assume you had the same STR at both levels)?

[Toadicus]

Did people doubt that fact? You're just spending MP to use a PHYSICAL mob TP move. They're going to follow the same laws that a WS or a melee attack would. Magical BLU is a different story. You can differentiate the two by the icon next to it... or I hope people have figured that out.

Leveling BLU magic skill would be, and is, the same as Leveling H2H skill for example. Physical Accuracy and Attack up for Physical spells, and Magic Accuracy and Attack for magical i would presume.

[Demetrios]

Did people doubt that fact? You're just spending MP to use a PHYSICAL mob TP move. They're going to follow the same laws that a WS or a melee attack would. Magical BLU is a different story. You can differentiate the two by the icon next to it... or I hope people have figured that out.

A lot of us did since double minuet gave no increase in damage for a blue physical move like it would for any other physical attack in the game besides the avatars. It's not much of a logical leap to say defense too may have no impact on physical blue magic damage, but obviously it does.

[DrObvious]

That's not much of an increase; are you sure it's not just random luck or another debuff affecting the mob?

10-20% dmg increase is not alot? k.

Frightrul Roar lowers defence with 20% afaik. Add dia and you have 32%.

Dia2 is 10% not 12%.

With that being said, I notice an increase in damage when dhalmels or sheep use berserk.

[Moochi]

That's not much of an increase; are you sure it's not just random luck or another debuff affecting the mob?

10-20% dmg increase is not alot? k.

Frightrul Roar lowers defence with 20% afaik. Add dia and you have 32%.

Dia2 is 10% not 12%.

With that being said, I notice an increase in damage when dhalmels or sheep use berserk.

That number was just something I was told. BUT since you said it was 10% I had to look it up. Did a google search and found this:

http://shadow-dragons.com/forum/printth ... readid=952

Don't know if this site is accurate/true but it says Dia is 10% and Dia II is 15%.

[Russta]

No one's mentioned Wind and Light Shot's potential to add to these def downs yet.

[aurik]

That's not much of an increase; are you sure it's not just random luck or another debuff affecting the mob?

10-20% dmg increase is not alot? k.

Frightrul Roar lowers defence with 20% afaik. Add dia and you have 32%.

Dia2 is 10% not 12%.

With that being said, I notice an increase in damage when dhalmels or sheep use berserk.

That number was just something I was told. BUT since you said it was 10% I had to look it up. Did a google search and found this:

http://shadow-dragons.com/forum/printth ... readid=952

Don't know if this site is accurate/true but it says Dia is 10% and Dia II is 15%.

That site says warcry is 15%, fail.