Blue Mage: Best thread ever

[Rena]

Must have been 10-15 times or so at first, on level -1 mobs in Sarutabaruta. Pretty confident that's what caused it, I've been trying it on several other mobs as well, and it's holding up so far.

[Rena]

For those who care about the magical side of BLU (all five of you), I figured out the exact Regurgitation multipliers and added to the blue magic calculation page on bg-wiki, they're awfully odd. (And yes, they should be quite accurate.) I also added the D values for the INT based spells that didn't have any, as well as some horribly worded notes about monster correlation (still need to figure out exactly how much AF head adds, as I doubt it's 0.02, but rather 5/256 or somesuch, but 0.02 is close enough for now).

There's still a few other things that need testing, like D values for Eyes On Me and Mind Blast (should be easy to figure out, just need to get around to it), as well as proper multipliers for certain spells. Corrosive Ooze doesn't seem to be quite correct, and I suspect Mind Blast might not be either. I plan to test that over the next few days, no promises though.

[VZX]

Umm... how do you get upper D cap=79? or to be more blatant: how do you get your character yo be a lv77 character?

And about /2048 and /4096 denominators, I think it's too much precision. Unless you can have D+ST > 1000 (which is impossible), It's unnecessary to use such denominators

[Rena]

It's the only value that would perfectly fit all the numbers I got, I can't explain why D would go higher than expected, unless it simply isn't calculated as expected. The multipliers might be a bit too precise, true, but it did make a difference at certain amounts of mind that are reachable without too much trouble (and it wouldn't be unusual to actually cast Regurgitation with enough mind to reach said point), hence I thought it might be of some use.

Edit: A possibility is that it might have a bonus to the D value, but whatever it is, the numbers I put up work for every single test I did, and I really can't see any other possibilities working.

[Suiram]

It's the only value that would perfectly fit all the numbers I got, I can't explain why D would go higher than expected, unless it simply isn't calculated as expected. The multipliers might be a bit too precise, true, but it did make a difference at certain amounts of mind that are reachable without too much trouble (and it wouldn't be unusual to actually cast Regurgitation with enough mind to reach said point), hence I thought it might be of some use.

Edit: A possibility is that it might have a bonus to the D value, but whatever it is, the numbers I put up work for every single test I did, and I really can't see any other possibilities working.

Can you post the data (including your stats and target's pertinent stats) you had that arrived at these conclusions, so we can see if maybe there's something you're overlooking? I also doubt it's in 2048ths or 4096ths, but would be nice to see it anyway.

As for monster correlation I'm fairly sure it's done in decimals but breath attacks should make it easy to verify one way or the other.

As for the D upper cap value, that is supposed to be (I think) a max on either the entire base damage or just the DATR part, much like how stone 1 base damage can't exceed 42 or whatever it is. For elemental magic it can be assumed those caps are on the dINT, but since BLU spells have varying constants (I know that's an oxymoron but you know what I mean lol) it could be a cap on the total base damage instead. In any case it's not supposed to be on the constant term ("D+ST" on the wiki) alone. Spells without a D upper cap listed can be assumed to be capped at some value unreachable in practice with current buffs/gear.

[Rena]

I'm too busy to post anything tonight, but I'll see about it tomorrow. It's horribly disorganized though, so I might redo the testing, it would help to identify any mistakes I may have made too.

[VZX]

It's the only value that would perfectly fit all the numbers I got, I can't explain why D would go higher than expected, unless it simply isn't calculated as expected.

If it's the case then this is the possibilities:
- you miscalculated ST
- D is not calculated as lv+2, rather, it's lv+4

And about the denominator.. uhh .. yeah, I think you need to trim it down to /256.

If you have the data, let us see here. So we can inspect it too.

[Rena]

My bad, I made an error when trying to calculate D. It wasn't noticable at 58 MND, only at about 52 and lower which I normally couldn't reach, tried with a spike necklace and I saw the error. I reverted the wiki back to its previous state, sorry for the trouble.

[Suiram]

Would still be interesting to see the data, at least for Regurgitation, a spell I am growing to love more and more. What were the damage values you got, and what were the INT, MND and other magic bonuses you had like MAB and staff? Which mobs did you use to test (and if it's not a common one, do you know its INT)? Also, in your subsequent tests did the direction the enemy was facing relative to you still hold up as the cause of the variance in damage?

[Havok]

Was bored so I did my own quick tests, all on Wild Rabbits. No spells set besides Regurgitation.

57 INT
68 MND
Neptune's Staff

Face to face:
290
290
290
290

Directly behind:
357
357
357

------------------------------------------

With my mediocre full gear setup
98 INT
112 MND
+11 MAB + Neptune's

Face to face:
449
449
493 (think watersday hit it)
449
493

Directly behind:
532
532
532
532

Definitely seems to do more damage from behind to me.

[VZX]

I did a few test (5 up front, probably 20 behind) and I can say about the higher multiplier from behind.

[BerenTebogo]

Quick question:

Was messing around on Faf last night with my wife's BLU doing things I probably shouldn't have been doing (i.e. hmm I wonder if Covergence + Frightful Roar work) and they did, DEF down landed on Faf, I was impressed. Decided to mess around a bit more, set Enervation and Convergence -> Enervation on Fafnir and I got no-effect message.

Now is Fafnir just immune to this? Or does it have something to do with monster correlation? There were no other jobs that (to my knowledge) could've inflicted MDEF- on Faf.

Any insight?

[Suiram]

It's been a while since I played around with Enervation, but I noticed something related once. I think it has something to do with the fact that it's inflicting two debuffs in one spell and the chatlog priority only gives you the message for one. If I was to guess, it'd be that the Def. Down had no effect, while the magic def. down resisted (unless you got a message later that it wore off, either way, same idea).

[BerenTebogo]

It had been the full duration of Convergence cool down in between, I had caught "Fafnir's Defense down effect wears off" about 3 minutes prior, but I suspect it's something along the lines as well, however I got neither message after the 'no effect'

[Suiram]

Well, we already know that for most debuffs, the game will choose to display a "no effect" message before a "resist" message (for instance, if you are enfeebling a hpemde with RDM SJ and no native enfeebling skill, you get "Resist" messages until it lands, then "No Effect" messages until it wears, even though you are likely resisting most or all of those casts for the duration it's on).

In the case of Enervation it probably uses the same thing to decide which message to display, something like Def down landing > Mdef down landing > Def down no effect > Mdef down no effect > Def down resist > Mdef down resist. So in the case where Def Down no effect and Mdef Down resists, you get the "no effect" message. Obviously your Roar would have worn by then, true, but did someone else in your alliance inflict a Def. Down debuff on it (that enervation wouldn't overwrite)?

This is just a thought by the way, I'm not saying it for sure works exactly this way.

[BerenTebogo]

That was the first thing I thought of, but there were no WAR or DRG, of this I'm sure, as for other jobs that inflict DEF- maybe a SMN? Afaik they can't but that was the only thing I could think of.

No DNC either.

[rath]

That was the first thing I thought of, but there were no WAR or DRG, of this I'm sure, as for other jobs that inflict DEF- maybe a SMN? Afaik they can't but that was the only thing I could think of.

No DNC either.

Anyone with acid bolts?

[BerenTebogo]

That was the first thing I thought of, but there were no WAR or DRG, of this I'm sure, as for other jobs that inflict DEF- maybe a SMN? Afaik they can't but that was the only thing I could think of.

No DNC either.

Anyone with acid bolts?

As far as I know, no. I can only be 99% sure there was no other def- effect on, so under the supposition of no effect being on, what are the possibilities?

[arus2001]

Maybe go pick on a bunny, using Roar first, then Enervation to see how the log handles messages? If you see no effect on the Ener, but an Mdef down wears later, it would explain the possible log inconsistency. On the other hand, it makes me wonder if Enervation can even stick if one of the two can't.

[Suiram]

Maybe go pick on a bunny, using Roar first, then Enervation to see how the log handles messages? If you see no effect on the Ener, but an Mdef down wears later, it would explain the possible log inconsistency. On the other hand, it makes me wonder if Enervation can even stick if one of the two can't.

In the situation you describe, you get "Suiram casts Enervation, the Enemy receives the effect of Magic Def. Down," rather than the "Suiram casts Enervation, the Enemy receives the effect of Defense Down." you get if neither are on. What you need to test my proposal is one where Def down is already on and Magic Def down resists (or one where both resist in case it's just a bug).