Blue Mage: Best thread ever

**ronin sparthos** · 2008-09-28 22:16

I was lead to believe they changed Spider Web with Filamented Hold cause the Spider-family already gave Sickle Slash and Diremites used a slow move that fit the space Spider Web left.

**Rocl** · 2008-09-28 22:25

Originally Posted by Yugl

That's like showing SMN with Ifrit and Shiva, but only allowing them to summon lolelemental avatars.

Or showing a Summoner equipped with a Scythe (*'-')

**Sho** · 2008-09-29 00:08

Hah, is all good LD.

**Sho** · 2008-09-29 03:59

Got Relic Head today, so I went straight to testing vs Dusk Mask and Saurian Helm.

Vs Dusk Mask for Cannonball.

Gear is nothing more than a Genbu's Shield, and the swapped headpieces. No other spells are set but Cannonball. All are Sneak Attacked and Chain Affinity'd, no 2 hrs. Five Cannonballs apiece on Low lvl Bunnies in West Ron.

Relic Head:

1087
1059
1032
1005
1066

Dusk Mask:

1012
980
1062
1088
1077

It's a damn good replacement for Dusk Mask at least, considering that it's DEF 31, VIT+5 vs DEF 24, VIT+3, and Blue Magic Skill +5. Guess it also confirms putting BLU's dmg into the next tier, but don't quote meh on that.

and for the Heat Breath vs Saurian Helm:

No Head Piece:

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/5...adpieceuy0.png

Relic:

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/203...9021340sx1.png

Saurian Helm:

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/4...9011001ad1.png

(Dun mind the /timestamp, I did it a few times for mirrored dmg across all bunnies.)

Naked BLU/MNK, no HP gear whatsoever, base HP is 1224. No other spells but Heat Breath set. Means Relic is about a 9~10% boost to breath attacks along with Saurian Helm, but with the Added Blue Magic skill for less resists. Only reason why Sau won is because of the higher HP base stat. So also a win in this situation as well.

Quite the piece to get for all BLU.

**kenshyn** · 2008-09-29 07:22

Originally Posted by Sho

Got Relic Head today, so I went straight to testing vs Dusk Mask and Saurian Helm.

Vs Dusk Mask for Cannonball.

Gear is nothing more than a Genbu's Shield, and the swapped headpieces. No other spells are set but Cannonball. All are Sneak Attacked and Chain Affinity'd, no 2 hrs. Five Cannonballs apiece on Low lvl Bunnies in West Ron.

Relic Head:

1087
1059
1032
1005
1066

Dusk Mask:

1012
980
1062
1088
1077

It's a damn good replacement for Dusk Mask at least, considering that it's DEF 31, VIT+5 vs DEF 24, VIT+3, and Blue Magic Skill +5. Guess it also confirms putting BLU's dmg into the next tier, but don't quote meh on that.

and for the Heat Breath vs Saurian Helm:

No Head Piece:

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/5...adpieceuy0.png

Relic:

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/203...9021340sx1.png

Saurian Helm:

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/4...9011001ad1.png

(Dun mind the /timestamp, I did it a few times for mirrored dmg across all bunnies.)

Naked BLU/MNK, no HP gear whatsoever, base HP is 1224. No other spells but Heat Breath set. Means Relic is about a 9~10% boost to breath attacks along with Saurian Helm, but with the Added Blue Magic skill for less resists. Only reason why Sau won is because of the higher HP base stat. So also a win in this situation as well.

Quite the piece to get for all BLU.

Thanks for the testing but your sample size is much to small to be conclusive the cannonball testing should at a minimum include cocoon who uses cb without it it magnifies any difference in def along with any items that are percentage based def increase like food even without it the median and avg of the items are fairly close.

For a free piece give me the blu head piece +5 skill is sweet as hell in my book and +10% to breath spells is gravy.

**Sho** · 2008-09-29 07:37

Well I considered adding Cocoon stats to the thing, but I just wanted to throw out a barebones test vs Dusk Mask with only the Genbu's. Optimal testing for me would be full on gear and testing vs EP mobs at least (also shows the sample size, I'm lazy but just wanted to put something out there). I'll do something more controlled later this week if time allows, and no one does it up.

It does show out alot tho-- already impressed enough to now sell off my Dusk, and as for Sau Helm, I still need to get DRG Relic before I get rid of it, but it's as sure enough gone when I do. Free money for me to put into something else, and +2 inv space, hehe.

**kenshyn** · 2008-09-29 07:58

Originally Posted by Sho

Well I considered adding Cocoon stats to the thing, but I just wanted to throw out a barebones test vs Dusk Mask with only the Genbu's. Optimal testing for me would be full on gear and testing vs EP mobs at least (also shows the sample size, I'm lazy but just wanted to put something out there). I'll do something more controlled later this week if time allows, and no one does it up.

It does show out alot tho-- already impressed enough to now sell off my Dusk, and as for Sau Helm, I still need to get DRG Relic before I get rid of it, but it's as sure enough gone when I do. Free money for me to put into something else, and +2 inv space, hehe.

Yep true just have to recall how defense = attack for CB and most would never use cannonball without cocoon boost, I would also use standard food and CB build gear. The only piece to change would be headgear. The test still could be performed vs rabbits using SA just this would take in account the Def difference. The sample size would need to large enough to show variation if you add your results up divide by 5 you see how close they are you can even toss the high and low values and they be fairly equal just eyeballing it.

Being an engineer testing is second nature. They should be fairly close and +5 blu skill should impact resists in my book dusk mask isn't worth the cost or inventory space if I have the blu head piece.

**Delekii** · 2008-09-29 08:12

Originally Posted by kenshyn

Yep true just have to recall how defense = attack for CB and most would never use cannonball without cocoon boost, I would also use standard food and CB build gear. The only piece to change would be headgear. The test still could be performed vs rabbits using SA just this would take in account the Def difference. The sample size would need to large enough to show variation if you add your results up divide by 5 you see how close they are you can even toss the high and low values and they be fairly equal just eyeballing it.

Being an engineer testing is second nature. They should be fairly close and +5 blu skill should impact resists in my book dusk mask isn't worth the cost or inventory space if I have the blu head piece.

pdif will be capped vs a lvl 1 mob. No need to fuss with all that crap. You can work out exactly the difference.. making the assumption that the skill pushes up a damage tier, the skill gives you +2 base damage, but the vit difference loses ~2wsc (under chain affinity). You also lose the defense of the dusk mask, which while irrelevant during bunny testing, is relevant during actual application.

The only unquantifiable variables are whether or not you believe blu skill has an affect on accuracy, which there is no evidence of, and which is irrelevant during SA, and whether you think blu skill has any influence on cb pdif - neither of which are testable on bunnies. Physical spells cannot be "resisted", they can only miss.

Not being an engineer, testing is still second nature, but only testing that is actually relevant with previously known information taken into account.

**Sho** · 2008-09-29 08:40

Very interesting, thanks guys-- like I said, I'll test with more controlled variables as stated before :D Even so, Blue Magic Skill will never do anything for Physical Spell Acc, so there's no reason to assume if it does or not. Doesn't matter because of SA anyways, as you've stated.

Yvonne · 2008-09-29 09:35

Originally Posted by Sho

Very interesting, thanks guys-- like I said, I'll test with more controlled variables as stated before :D Even so, Blue Magic Skill will never do anything for Physical Spell Acc, so there's no reason to assume if it does or not. Doesn't matter because of SA anyways, as you've stated.

Kinda a noobie question here, but does DEX still apply towards the damage calculations with SA+CA moves?

**Alistaire** · 2008-09-29 09:40

Originally Posted by Yvonne

Kinda a noobie question here, but does DEX still apply towards the damage calculations with SA+CA moves?

Only if the spell has a DEX mod.

**Kaslo** · 2008-09-29 10:08

Originally Posted by Alistaire

Only if the spell has a DEX mod.

aka it's not like THF main.

**Yugl** · 2008-09-29 11:50

I agree that in order to truly test each piece you need to have a static set up, but tbh I don't think Dusk mask will outdo BLU Relic anyways. I'm really interested in a Gnad v Relic Helm test though if anyone has both helms.

**Alistaire** · 2008-09-29 12:15

Originally Posted by Rocl

Or showing a Summoner equipped with a Scythe (*'-')

Or a guy in Odin's Helm and Askar body with a sword using Death Blossom. That one still bugs me.

**Belgaer** · 2008-09-29 13:02

Originally Posted by LD

Quizibug, indeed.

Sho, I'm stealing your locked Blue Spells list from KI, cuz I'm tired of fishing through it every time I wanna know what we have coming to us. Everyone tell me if it's missing anything.

Spoiler: show

I would love to have some of those spells... But we'll have to wait another 3 years before SE can tell how the job plays out before they make a decision. >_>

After all, it's been 2 years and they have yet to add "Blue Magic" to the translator. lol

**Ddboner** · 2008-09-29 17:49

I want Goblin Rush... and while we are whining, what about Ridill?

**Rocl** · 2008-09-29 17:52

Originally Posted by Alistaire

Or a guy in Odin's Helm and Askar body with a sword using Death Blossom. That one still bugs me.

I have a pretty good feeling that's the NPC you'll fight in the final Mythic Weapon BCNM >_>

**Delekii** · 2008-09-29 18:58

Originally Posted by Yugl

I agree that in order to truly test each piece you need to have a static set up, but tbh I don't think Dusk mask will outdo BLU Relic anyways. I'm really interested in a Gnad v Relic Helm test though if anyone has both helms.

It will in the case of CB, as far as the math can tell. Or, I should say, it will in the case of CB, under chain affinity. It might without CA, the trade off is 1 base damage for ~20defense after mods. But again, it depends on whether Blue Magic skill affects pdif on cb.

**Repairs** · 2008-09-30 09:58

Originally Posted by Delekii

It will in the case of CB, as far as the math can tell. Or, I should say, it will in the case of CB, under chain affinity. It might without CA, the trade off is 1 base damage for ~20defense after mods. But again, it depends on whether Blue Magic skill affects pdif on cb.

Blu AF is: 2base + pdif vs. dusk 2vit + 7 defense

----------------
Gnadbhod's Helm - DEF:24 STR+6
Dusk+1 - DEF 32, VIT+6
AF2+1 - DEF 25, VIT+4 and Blue Magic Skill +5
Wivre+1 - Def?, str3, vit 3

Even if we assume that skill will effect the pdif function, it’s not going to increase max damage, it just would make it slightly more consistent. How much more consistent??

How much would the increase of 7 defense do?

Just looking at ruff estimates, it looks like such small differences that there really is not wrong choice. Following chart is ruff estimates with and then without CA (any increase in defense is not included):

**Yugl** · 2008-09-30 23:54

Would that change depending on how much +STR and +VIT you had to begin with?

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