Blue Mage: Best thread ever

[Charismatic]

Both jobs have (had in the case of DRGs of the past) an incredible number of gimped players on them that make the job look far worse than it actually is? Remember all the talk of DEX rings?
Wow.

[Yugl]

Ya but then compare the means by which RDM can recover MP compared to BLU excluding gear:

BLU: Auto Refresh

RDM: Refresh + Convert

MP usually isn't as much of an issue for RDM as it is for BLU. Not to mention the benefits of each 2hr is different. The casting speed and recast reduction is applicable to all spells which means it can be used in a unique fashion such as Utsusemi: Mugen, SS tanking, Stuns, and other methods. Azure Lore isn't as versatile since it's limited to DMG and resist. Hence, an RDM's 2hr is catered to defensive (and in some cases offense) while a BLU's 2hr is catered to damage.

Now consider the necessity of MP for both. Do they both need MP? Of course. How much MP? In the case of an RDM, he's either spending no MP on Utsusemi or little MP on SS/Stun (Yes a RDM could use his 2hr for nuking, but I argue that an RDM's 2hr allows it to fulfill its "role" without using such nuke unlike a BLU who is expected to DD). A BLU on the other hand spends ~60-70 MP on each of the big three for zerg purposes or ~62 on Cannonball for a one hit wonder. Furthermore, a BLU is limited by recast timers so the amount of big threes you can cast is dependent not only on MP, but also the recast timer. If you take these arguments into consideration, we're left with this list:

RDM:
Faster MP recovery abilities
Does not need as much MP to fulfill its excepted role
More versatile with its 2hr
Only limited by MP during Chainspell

BLU:
Less MP recovery abilities
Requires a lot more MP to fulfill its role (Unless you're just using Cannonball)
2hr is limited to increasing damage
Limited by MP and recast during the 2hr phase

I don't think it would be unfair for Azure Lore to recover at least half of the BLU's MP back once used.

[Belgaer]

I think it would be interesting if BLU's 2hour made all spells able to chain/burst while active, but consume no TP. We would be limited by what spells happened to be set, as well as recasts, and MP. It would open us to a whole new world when it comes to zerging. We could actually compete with WAR, SAM, MNK, and DRK in that. :O

[Sylvrdragon]

Well, the difference between now, and last time this subject was brought up is that it is now easier than ever to get word to SE about it, and they MIGHT actually do something about it if enough people complain.

Being a RDM, I can say that AL doesn't even imagine comparing to Chainspell. CS is the type of 2hr I save for absolute emergencies. It's the one I'm hesitant to use because it's so useful, and so it rarely DOES get used.

AL, on the other hand is rarely used because it is near useless. Hell, I don't even notice any extra damage from it UNLESS I'm using CA. AL was nothing but a toy when leveling up when I could bust it with no TP and then wreck something with CASATA Death Scissors. Even then, usually by the time you think of using it, you don't have CA up. If you DO have CA up, then you probably have a lot of TP anyway, and so AL's boost to damage is pitiful.

The only time I know I'm getting the most out of it is when I use it at the start of a party before I've built TP or used CA, or after a recovery. Even then, all it does in insure that I'm tanking the remainder of the fight...

[Corrderio]

Both jobs have (had in the case of DRGs of the past) an incredible number of gimped players on them that make the job look far worse than it actually is? Remember all the talk of DEX rings?
Wow.

I agree, however it's now what you think. It's what the community thinks about the job. Many ppl still say PUPs are gimps and a waste in my LS for example. Even though I know they can put up some decent numbers.

[Belgaer]

Many people also say BLU is horribly broken, simply because they can solo skillchain and they're not SAM. Of course, none of us would agree with that, I'm sure, and we rarely really even get to take full advantage of self SC (mainly because of SAMs, ironically...). >.>

The other 3/4's of the population is just as hesitant about BLU as they are PUP, probably because of ignorance of what they can do (and they don't care to know). Or possibly because many BLUs have made the job look useless. Probably both.

[Destinye]

It's usually:

90% of BLUs don't know how to play the job, therefore a lot of people see it as a worthless slot..and DNC can self skillchain as well..in more ways than 1..but people still see DNC as a worthless slot as well, but after all that's just new job stigma. Though BLU is creeping up on being 3 years old, DRK went through the same phase zilart release.

[LD]

See: Chainspell

And you can't put AL up against the top tier 2hrs you need to put it into the totality of the 2hrs where it is far from shitty. And "Give us all spells", "Give us all spells + full MP", "I want pizza with pepperoni", and "give me 10x stat boost" do seem to raise it quite alot, especially on a job that can zerg decently well (on Non-HNM). The most likely choice to replace it with is All Spells which isn't as broken but idk, I don't see it even being as good as AL so why bother?

I completely disagree. There's no reason not to compare it to 'top tier' 2Hs, because MOST 2Hs are good. Azure Lore doesn't bring the situation changing power that even something like Overdrive, Trance, or Soul Voice bring, and those are considered some of the worst of the 20. It's a 2 Hour ES and that's really shitty, especially since BLU already gets Convergence. It's actually worse, because the accuracy and damage it adds to most spells is lower compared to the other buffs we apply to ourselves. If you're going to say that 2Hs aren't meant to be massively powerful abilities that can change the direction of almost any battle to the user's favor, then you're absolutely wrong.

Now I'm going to explain to you how reasonable the changes would be.

Unlocking Complete Spell list:
BLU is a job based on flexibility, however we only have access to under 20 spells at any given time. Given a wider array of spells, a BLU would be able to be at full strength at any crunch moment. Also, it makes sense from a Story stand point, since it's as though you're utilizing every spirit you've absorbed up to that point.

Full spell bonuses/traits:
The fact that BLU isn't a great zerger on HNM is a major problem, but even on weaker stuff, it isn't so good of a zerger that it can't be replaced by nearly every competent DD. Giving +20~ to every stat and +150~ to HP/MP during a 2H would go a long way to strengthening it in both areas while giving the job an actual purpose instead of just being a jack-of-all-trades job most people either use randomly or don't know what to do with.

Spell Cost Reduction:
Personally, I believe something like this should be implemented for everyday use since a BLU can hemorrhage MP in many situations and still wont really be better than another job (not for long enough to make it worth it, anyway.) Technically it has, but since I doubt every BLU will have access to a Tizona, an MP reduction for the inevitable spamfest to come would go a long way to help BLU's MP efficiency.


I don't believe MP cost reduction is necessary to make Azure Lore a better 2H, but even if the first 2 ideas were implemented, they aren't so powerful that would suddenly out-parse 100 fist or Kraken Soulweapon (and technically, you don't need BW to to make the latter powerful). MP would still be the main limiter and BLU would still be marginal for the other 119 minutes.

[Belgaer]

A lot of people who understand BLU's potential believe that if we had a useful 2hour, the job would be broken. I disagree, though, as I'm sure we all do, since we've experienced BLU's limitations 1st hand. Mainly on shorter HNM or high level NM fights. The best we can really do right now is get a couple spike DMG's in, or do a solo SC or two if you can avoid spaming all around you. Aside from that, frightful roar and head butt. I suppose MNK is pretty much the same way... But at least they have a good 2hour overall. >.>


On another note, I believe Azure Lure actually only adds any DMG to the 1st hit of a spell... Notice that it hardly does jack for Disseverment or Hysteric Barrage. It takes Frenetic from 600's to 1k DMG (strangely enough). It more than doubles the DMG of Vertical Cleave, Death Scissors, etc.

Also, I would say that the most retarded part, is that even with 2hour up, you can still miss your hits just as easily... So Azure Lure is very easy to waste. And with the 30 second duration, it leaves no room for recasts. /sigh



EDIT: I was talking with a friend about what Azure Lore did during a fight a moment ago when I used it. It did wonders for Fren Rip, as usual, but hardly anything for Head Butt or Disseverment. But then it hit me. It doesn't affect the first hit. I believe it unlocks the affects TP has on the spells (potency varies by your current TP), without consuming TP (or allowing them to participate in chains/bursts). {That's interesting.}

[Znooby]

A lot of people who understand BLU's potential believe that if we had a useful 2hour, the job would be broken. I disagree, though, as I'm sure we all do, since we've experienced BLU's limitations 1st hand. Mainly on shorter HNM or high level NM fights. The best we can really do right now is get a couple spike DMG's in, or do a solo SC or two if you can avoid spaming all around you. Aside from that, frightful roar and head butt. I suppose MNK is pretty much the same way... But at least they have a good 2hour overall. >.>


On another note, I believe Azure Lure actually only adds any DMG to the 1st hit of a spell... Notice that it hardly does jack for Disseverment or Hysteric Barrage. It takes Frenetic from 600's to 1k DMG (strangely enough). It more than doubles the DMG of Vertical Cleave, Death Scissors, etc.

Also, I would say that the most retarded part, is that even with 2hour up, you can still miss your hits just as easily... So Azure Lure is very easy to waste. And with the 30 second duration, it leaves no room for recasts. /sigh



EDIT: I was talking with a friend about what Azure Lore did during a fight a moment ago when I used it. It did wonders for Fren Rip, as usual, but hardly anything for Head Butt or Disseverment. But then it hit me. It doesn't affect the first hit. I believe it unlocks the affects TP has on the spells (potency varies by your current TP), without consuming TP (or allowing them to participate in chains/bursts). {That's interesting.}

check TP modifiers for those spells you mentioned above

[Belgaer]

That was what I was getting at. >.>

[Sho]

They can make Azure Lore place spells @ 400~500% effectiveness. Ftw.

[Znooby]

They can make Azure Lore place spells @ 400~500% effectiveness. Ftw.

something like that, or make Azure lore just recharge chain/burst affinity, and make spells not cost TP when you're using them with chain affinity, wouldnt be too overpowered and it would make AL a tad bit stronger, and not overpowered

[Belgaer]

I still think they should just make Azure Lore make all spells chain/burst-able without consuming TP (until it wears off). It'd be similar to SAM 2hour, except we're limited by spells set, MP, and recast timers.

Or better yet, just make Azure Lore a 5 min recast ability and give us a 2hour that just increases potency and accuracy (100% acc?)of all spells cast by a certain reasonable multiplier. I'd be happy with that. >.>

[Meian]

Heck, it would be neat if Azure Lore allowed the same type of effect as CASA AL Cannonball shows but prolly double MP used and timer as to not fully blow its power (even then I am not sure if it would be that great, was just thinking of ideas)

[Corrderio]

I think AL would be more effective if it gave your spells a perma CA or BA while the effect is up. At least then it'd be a bit more useful in "Oh shi-!" situations.

[LD]

I'm against perma CA. I don't like the idea of potentially fucking with other SCs. The only thing that'd work is if it just lowered the recast to 0 for the duration.

[Charismatic]

Maybe it wasn't this thread, but I already suggested that somewhere...

Or they could just mirror the SCH 2hr and give unlimited use of CA and BA throughout the duration of Azure Lore.
That alone would make it worthwhile I think.

[Meian]

I'm against perma CA. I don't like the idea of potentially fucking with other SCs. The only thing that'd work is if it just lowered the recast to 0 for the duration.

Because people really do try to setup SC anymore...

Could say the same thing about SAM 2hr

[Corrderio]

Maybe perma CA w/o the ability to SC?