Blue Mage: Best thread ever

[Belgaer]

I'm definitely curious about the DRK/BLU testing. I don't ever set it on RDM/BLU, since I already have single target sleeps available. But yeah, any testing on this would be appreciated. I can't log in at the moment, due to my internet going in and out, or I'd test it too. I would definitely like to know what *actually* is going to help this spell. >.> If nothing, hell, I'll just load it with haste+.

[Belgaer]

Well, it's not very good testing, but I tried it 5 times as RDM/BLU. It missed 4 times, and landed once, but only lasted about 5 seconds. I'm going to say blue magic affects both the accuracy and the sleep accuracy.

[Plow]

Work on your writing and maybe there will be better communication. No matter how smart someone is, he'll never understand that chopping your own chest and drooling mean the same thing. Speak to me when you can communicate better.

Or you could just learn to read. It really takes a rather absurd level of retardation not to take the statement that BLU can be useful as a support as meaning... who the fuck knows what you're trying to say I supposedly meant, simply because it has an example attached.

If you're at max kill speed, then you don't even have any mobs because they haven't spawned yet. How are you going to get more mobs when they don't exist? That's exactly the point fool.

This is where the example I gave of how to completely pull both of the bottom tiers as well as mamools off the top comes in, which you dismissed because you wanted to limit the discussion exclusively to colibri at that point to try to make me wrong.

Having too much support means you do not kill fast enough due to the overcrowding of support. This can be fixed by replacing support members with DDs. Having too much kill speed means there is simply not enough mobs in the zone to keep up with the kill rate. If two DD alone are enough to reach this max (As in your example), then adding a support will not help this in any case, and may even add to the problem since you'll kill mobs even faster. If 2DD + 3 Support (Note I'm using YOUR example) is enough to clear all the mobs and breaks the chain because they're at max kill speed, you need to either gimp one of the melees or reduce the support that allows them to kill at such a high speed. It's simple logic; more support will not reduce kill speed because the entire idea of support is to increase kill speed.

Seriously, what don't you get about the fact that the only reason you have any argument whatsoever here is that you're intentionally restricting the party from killing mamools in order to win an internet argument?

Again, where is the proof? Quote me where I said that because they're not the best support, that they shouldn't play support. You're just making up lies at this point to cover your own ass.

Well, here's one example:

"The moment you set sub SCH over sub NIN you changed BLU from a DD with potential to a lousy DD with heightened MP wastage potential (For Healing/CC in the example you gave). BLU cannot do it all at once. We either do our best in one area or slouch to add terrain. No one has argued against setting the bare minimum spells for support (Even Suiram did not make this point). However, I am exercising caution to the extent to which you change BLU from a DD to a healer."

Please, explain to me how that's not saying using BLU as a healer is a bad idea? You just said that setting yourself up as a healer makes you a shitty DD that can only sit there and waste mp. How on earth is that NOT saying you shouldn't do it?


Another good example would be, oh, I dunno, MAYBE THE FUCKING ONE I QUOTED THAT WAS ABOUT IN THE FIRST PLACE?!?!

You know, the one where you describe how BLU can't get into parties with good merit DD, while assuming (or just intentionally avoiding the discussion of) they will get in ones with good support, making the argument that BLU should go as a DD but not as a healer?

Fuck this, so pointless, you have no interest whatsoever but winning a retarded e-argument that nobody even knows what's about anymore.

[ClarkSammich]

Could you ladies stop arguing? We're trying to do science.

[Plow]

Could you ladies stop arguing? We're trying to do science.

Yeah I'm done, sorry, that was dumb.

[Zellgadiss]

RDM/BLU might be good for testing the Magic Acc. theory. Naked vs. Crapton of magic acc. gear that RDM has access to.

Anyone try BLU/RNG or RNG/BLU for the r. acc test rather than just gear/food?

[Yugl]

Or you could just learn to read. It really takes a rather absurd level of retardation not to take the statement that BLU can be useful as a support as meaning... who the fuck knows what you're trying to say I supposedly meant, simply because it has an example attached.

You don't even know what I was saying and yet you're the one attacking reading skills. Bravo sir, well done.

This is where the example I gave of how to completely pull both of the bottom tiers as well as mamools off the top comes in, which you dismissed because you wanted to limit the discussion exclusively to colibri at that point to try to make me wrong.

Again, reading skills. We're talking about Colibri cam not Colibris specifically. No, I did not dismiss it because of the camp location either. Trace the posts and you'll see for yourself.

If you cap kill speed, that is, have the ability to kill all mobs without any left to continue the chain, then nothing you do aside from forcefully gimping the PT will allow you to continue the chain (And consequently increase XP). Hence the part where I said the PT would be better off without the BLU if such is the case. That should be simple enough to understand.
Except *gasp* find a way to get more mobs.

I mean, seriously, at this point you're narrowing down the original statement I disagreed with (which you, yourself had disagreed with a few posts before) to simply exclude any possible scenarios where it's not correct from the discussion.

If you're at max kill speed, then you don't even have any mobs because they haven't spawned yet. How are you going to get more mobs when they don't exist? That's exactly the point fool.

No where did I mention in those posts anything about solely limiting it to colibris only. In fact, earlier I stated that in order to truly have "max killing speed" you would need to kill wivres. Once again, you're making up lies to cover your own ass. Try again.

Seriously, what don't you get about the fact that the only reason you have any argument whatsoever here is that you're intentionally restricting the party from killing mamools in order to win an internet argument?

You do realize that I didn't limit the party from killing mamools and that you're retarded for assuming so? Again, you're nothing but a liar. Ironically, it's probably to win an internet argument.

Well, here's one example:

"The moment you set sub SCH over sub NIN you changed BLU from a DD with potential to a lousy DD with heightened MP wastage potential (For Healing/CC in the example you gave). BLU cannot do it all at once. We either do our best in one area or slouch to add terrain. No one has argued against setting the bare minimum spells for support (Even Suiram did not make this point). However, I am exercising caution to the extent to which you change BLU from a DD to a healer."

Please, explain to me how that's not saying using BLU as a healer is a bad idea? You just said that setting yourself up as a healer makes you a shitty DD that can only sit there and waste mp. How on earth is that NOT saying you shouldn't do it?

It seems this discussion has become too advanced for you to follow, but since don't worry, I'll try my best to hold your hand through this.

What you did was say that because they're not the best support job, they should never play a support role.

The quotation you cited (Which should have a "because in it") is directed towards this comment where you claimed I said they shouldn't play support. However, this doesn't simply say that I'm against support, it tries to specify a motivation as well. You claim my motivation for being against BLU support is because it's not the best support. However, I never said that *because* they are not the best healer, that they should not heal. Do you understand now?

Next, lets look at what that post was originally in response to (Since you did take it out of context).

First off, I didn't "change BLU from a DD to a healer." BLU is both, not one or the other, as well as a tank.

If you look at the original question, this statement, and my response, it should be obvious that I was not saying BLU shouldn't heal because they're not the best support. The original question was about DD Colibri (Yeah? You up to speed on that now?). You attacked someone's post providing information about BLU DDing at the colibri camp and suggested that BLU sub SCH. My response was that it is irrelevant because we're talking about BLU DD and subbing SCH cripples BLU's DD potential. Then this comment about how you're not changing BLU from DD to healer came in. My response which you quoted above demonstrated that you indeed are changing BLU from a strong DD role to a lousy healing role (Since you're obviously not going to be at max potential when also trying to play DD right?).

Overall, your lack of comprehension skills cost you on two grounds. First, you misjudged my motivation for being against BLU healing. Second, it made you argue without respect to the original question. Perhaps as a troll, this is your goal. However, if not, then it stands to say that you're in need of reeducation (If they was any to begin with).

You know, the one where you describe how BLU can't get into parties with good merit DD, while assuming (or just intentionally avoiding the discussion of) they will get in ones with good support, making the argument that BLU should go as a DD but not as a healer?

Never did I make the argument that BLU would obtain perfect support PTs. If there was an instance of reference, it was because I was using your example. This is why examples don't work (Apparently for you). Idiots such as yourself never realize when I'm referring to a concept you used or if it's my own even when I quote you directly. The only reference to the support crew was in this post:

My AH DD comment was meant to clash with your example since I'm going by the norm and reality while you're making generally false assumptions. My idea of a BLU merit PT is AH DDs + Healer + 2 Support. Somehow you brought up this notion of 2DD + 3 Support + Outside healer. My scenario is much more likely, and thus, more relevant than yours.

Note that in this post I said it was unlikely for a BLU PT to have "top-notch" or even "good" support compared to the example you gave. I'll even admit that second support is unlikely. However, this only goes to further my point that the scenario you depicted is unlikely to exist. You were saying that BLU can sub SCH and CC (Which in the process deterred from the question in discussion) when BLU joins an already perfect PT. However, I said that it is unlikely to occur. Why? BLUs simply don't get those PTs.

Fuck this, so pointless, you have no interest whatsoever but winning a retarded e-argument that nobody even knows what's about anymore.

This coming from the guy who say he'll stop respond and yet, continues to respond? Hypocrite and troll.

[Kaslo]

Bah it never ends!

[ClarkSammich]

Tried DRK/BLU, 11/11 pinecone bomb casts missed. This was naked other than w.legs.
Going to change back to BLU and see if it overwrites sleep 1 and 2 once I can find a helper.

[Suiram]

Pretty sure it overwrites in that damage done wakes it while simultaneously resleeping it. Maybe try sleeping with pinecone bomb first, and then checking if sleep1/2 overwrites that, then moving on to a worm or something and see if pinecone bomb overwrites sleep 1 or two when damage does 0 due to stoneskin or what have you.

[Belgaer]

Well, Soporific doesn't overrite Sleep 1. Yawn doesn't overrite it either. I'm going to guess that Sleep 1 probably overrites it.

As for my RDM/BLU testing, it was completely naked and 1/5 landed. I have merited blue magic though. It would need more testing to determine if that played any part in the 1 that landed, or if it was just luck. Even so, it only landed for a few seconds.

[Villian]

All blu's sleep spells are tier 1 I'm afraid. Sleep 2 can overwrite them but not sleep iirc.

Edit: Unless it works like flash. I can overwrite a rdm/pld flash but I was unable to do it with a pld or whm flash. Unsure if it's the skill or if there are tiers to them.

[Sho]

All blu's sleep spells are tier 1 I'm afraid. Sleep 2 can overwrite them but not sleep iirc.

Edit: Unless it works like flash. I can overwrite a rdm/pld flash but I was unable to do it with a pld or whm flash. Unsure if it's the skill or if there are tiers to them.

I'm not sure for Soporific-- the Sleep duration on it lasts just as long as Sleep(ga) II. It might just be like Flash, as you mentioned. It also could be comparable to Sleep I, with a Tier II duration as well (since it would be odd a job has Sleep II @ lvl 24).

[arshesney]

Sleepga II overwrites Soporific (tested in Einherjar), BLU sleeps cannot overwrite any other sleep spell, which kinda sucks :/

[Magnus5557]

I didn't want to scour the whole thread for my one quick question, so if someone could answer it that would be great: how is one's Blue Magic Skill calculated into magical blue magic?

[Suiram]

So far as anyone can tell, it's just for the Macc of those spells, like how Elemental/Enfeebling/etc. skill corresponds to their respective spells. Maybe a couple exceptions (the potency of the Frost effect for Cold Wave is reported to be a function of skill).

[grozny]

Tried DRK/BLU, 11/11 pinecone bomb casts missed. This was naked other than w.legs.
Going to change back to BLU and see if it overwrites sleep 1 and 2 once I can find a helper.

Maybe it missed because you were naked.. If you go change to blu and do it naked you'll probably miss too.

[Sirrus_Asura]

Tried DRK/BLU, 11/11 pinecone bomb casts missed. This was naked other than w.legs.
Going to change back to BLU and see if it overwrites sleep 1 and 2 once I can find a helper.

Unless it lands for 0, you're going to have a hard time doing that.

[Lone]

Unless it lands for 0, you're going to have a hard time doing that.

Do it in diorama.

[ClarkSammich]

Maybe it missed because you were naked.. If you go change to blu and do it naked you'll probably miss too.

The point of the testing (if I remember right, sort of forgot about this entirely) was to determine what effected the accuracy of pinecone bomb, given it was shown to land without a sword equipped.
That being said, its accuracy on 100% naked BLU main was high, while extremely low on DRK/BLU, so it's safe to bet it's accuracy is determined by Blue Magic skill.

Do it in diorama.

Ramuh doesn't ballista anymore. I have like 54 ballista points left and can't enter, or I would be all over it.