Blue Mage: Best thread ever

[Caiti]

Thank you all for your responses. I think I am going to do the BLM hat. From what I have seen the differences seem marginal (please correct me if I misinterpreted anything).

[Sabishii]

I suggest you to put other thing rather than eva+10 since BLU can't evade shit (Enmity +5 recommend for BLU tanking) and I bet with 3rd expansion you will get another +5 Fast Cast.

I don't really BLU tank, so enmity would be counter productive, and I have enkidu harness for meleeing. There's not much else I could put on that body that'd help, so I figure EVA so I can use it as a macro piece for utsu and the EVA would help slightly in not getting hit while casting.

[Sirrus_Asura]

All of you guys' equations did not include DEF or Hidden Attack or the influence of "Physical Potency" on them, so they prove nothing.

All of BLU spells have hidden attack modifier which proportionate to both blue magic skill and physical potency. (It could be attack = blue magic skill x hidden attack modifier for each spell x physical potency x some value derived from DEF for cannonball) Adding 5 blue magic skill from Mirage will as well increase this value, while adding pure STR or VIT does not. Actially nothing can increase this value except blue magic skill. For some info, I've never break 2000 damage Disseverment on Lesser Colibri in front of town with anything else but Mirage.

It's a shame to trash Mirage with your false equation.


- For new hat -
I'll pick STR+4 WSACC+15 ACC+10 ATK+5 and I'll replace whatever +Acc pieces with +Atk on Vorpal Blade. It should give me at least +40 attack without sacrificing any accuracy.

Alright,

1. Give me a formula then. Your not-formula doesn't help.

2. My understanding of Physical Potency is that it was "Physical Spell Acc". I could be very wrong, I'm just going by what I've seen said around various Blue Mage related posts. I'll admit, I've yet to see any of the testing that supports this view, however the same is true for your view. Physical Potency is probably merited by the majority of blue mages, so this leaves the 5 skill as the reason you say Mirage pulls ahead.

3.If Blue Skill is the *only* thing that adds attack, what amount of attack are you getting from Mirage that outdoes the base dmg Gnads? I'd assume at the most mirage would add 5 "blue attack", which I doubt is gonna beat the base dmg gain from Gnad's or Augment. That and I find it hard to believe that STR doesn't also add some attack to Blue Magic spells.

4. Also defense is more or less moot. You wont notice 21 def against 24 def. That and Gnad's has the same def as Mirage(Before VIT). Wivere Mask and Augment are only 3 def lower then Mirage.

If I recall Morrigans were shown to give better returns on Vertical Cleave VS NQ Jubbah. I'd assume the same rules apply to Cannonball. *5* str beat out *15* skill. (Not sure, correct me if I'm wrong)


On another note; Playing around with Colibri just to see. 5/5 CA Mirage Disseverments ranged around 1650-1750 where as Gnadbod's ranged from 1700-1900.

[Yugl]

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/46517...ml#post2788694

Basically, Gnads > Mirage.

Physical Potency = ACC, so for CB, it's irrelevant.

AF+1 > Morrigans for CB. Whoever did that test did it wrong since +15 Skill reaches new tiers for Spells LV60 or higher.

[eva00r]

Alright,

1. Give me a formula then. Your not-formula doesn't help.

2. My understanding of Physical Potency is that it was "Physical Spell Acc". I could be very wrong, I'm just going by what I've seen said around various Blue Mage related posts. I'll admit, I've yet to see any of the testing that supports this view, however the same is true for your view. Physical Potency is probably merited by the majority of blue mages, so this leaves the 5 skill as the reason you say Mirage pulls ahead.

3.If Blue Skill is the *only* thing that adds attack, what amount of attack are you getting from Mirage that outdoes the base dmg Gnads? I'd assume at the most mirage would add 5 "blue attack", which I doubt is gonna beat the base dmg gain from Gnad's or Augment. That and I find it hard to believe that STR doesn't also add some attack to Blue Magic spells.

4. Also defense is more or less moot. You wont notice 21 def against 24 def. That and Gnad's has the same def as Mirage(Before VIT). Wivere Mask and Augment are only 3 def lower then Mirage.

If I recall Morrigans were shown to give better returns on Vertical Cleave VS NQ Jubbah. I'd assume the same rules apply to Cannonball. *5* str beat out *15* skill. (Not sure, correct me if I'm wrong)


On another note; Playing around with Colibri just to see. 5/5 CA Mirage Disseverments ranged around 1650-1750 where as Gnadbod's ranged from 1700-1900.

What you said are just speculations, it's no point to argue this without any proves. Morrigan's Robe are horrible compare to NQ Jubbah. Plus, it's impossible to gain 100 damage on average from a single marginal piece over anything. I won't claim that which piece is better, since now no one know how exactly physical spell damage is calculated.

[eva00r]

-Sorry for double posting-

[Sirrus_Asura]

What you said are just speculations, it's no point to argue this without any proves. Morrigan's Robe are horrible compare to NQ Jubbah. Plus, it's impossible to gain 100 damage on average from a single marginal piece over anything. I won't claim that which piece is better, since now no one know how exactly physical spell damage is calculated.

Then why did you bother with trying to defend Mirage in the first place? All you did was throw in crap that noone's proven yet and cry that we insulted your breath spell helm.

The Morrigan's testing wasn't against AF+1, it was against AF(AF+1 didn't exist for blue mage). Noone seemed to have issues with the testing back then. Whats the deal now?

[Kyte]

2. My understanding of Physical Potency is that it was "Physical Spell Acc". I could be very wrong, I'm just going by what I've seen said around various Blue Mage related posts. I'll admit, I've yet to see any of the testing that supports this view, however the same is true for your view. Physical Potency is probably merited by the majority of blue mages, so this leaves the 5 skill as the reason you say Mirage pulls ahead.

Physical Potency, in reference to our merits, does mean accuracy. This does not need testing, as it was directly stated by SE themselves at the last Fan Fest.


When he used the term, he was referring to something different entirely- the "attack" power of a spell; that is, its ability to reach its maximum damage consistently. There does seem to be some variance between individual spells and their associated attack power. Taking a look a Vertical Cleave, it has the same 3.0 fTP modifier at all TP values; however, more TP gives it more of that hidden attack power that lets it reach maximum damage on higher defense monsters.

Now, I don't think I have seen any definitive tests in terms of how much, if at all, Blue Magic Skill affects "attack," if at all- although I do tend to believe that it does. It's something that could use more testing.

[eva00r]

I can confirm that blue magic skill 100% effects "attack power".

-Testing-
RDM75/BLU37 AGI 59 STR 75 Blue skill 140
BLU75/COR15 AGI 59 STR 75 Blue skill 292 (wear some gears to align STR and AGI)

Spell : Feather Storm
We are all know that Feather Storm D is capped at 17 so no matter how much blue magic skill you have it will be capped at 17. BLU37 also capped this as well.

Testing Mob : Gigantobugard @ Misareaux Coast

Feather Storm damage average for RDM75/BLU37 ~95
Feather Storm damage average for BLU75/COR15 ~180

There is no way in hell that damage could double itself. With other variable fixed, I can confirm that blue magic skill is proportionate to its attack power.

Then why did you bother with trying to defend Mirage in the first place? All you did was throw in crap that noone's proven yet and cry that we insulted your breath spell helm.

THAT'S WHY COMPARING Gnad vs Mirage with just base damage and/or modifier is INCORRECT, UNDERSTAND ? I have never defend Mirage, but throwing random equations like you did prove nothing.

-more on scientific side-
I need to ask VZX or somebody how to test attack modifer for each spell. I recalled that VZX has already proved that modifier for Frenetic Rip > Hysteric Barrage somehow (or maybe with just eye balling).

This is my hypothesis,
Total attack power = Spell Modifier x Blue magic skill

Physical Potency may or may not modify attack power, I've already maxed this out so I cannot test it.

Spells like Vertical Cleave which has its damage varies by TP in description did not increase its fTP when you have more TP, but however increase its attack power instead. Using Azure Lore will also max out its attack power beyond 300 TP.

[Sirrus_Asura]

I can confirm that blue magic skill 100% effects "attack power".

-Testing-
RDM75/BLU37 AGI 59 STR 75 Blue skill 140
BLU75/COR15 AGI 59 STR 75 Blue skill 292 (wear some gears to align STR and AGI)

Spell : Feather Storm
We are all know that Feather Storm D is capped at 17 so no matter how much blue magic skill you have it will be capped at 17.

Testing Mob : Gigantobugard @ Misareaux Coast

Feather Storm damage average for RDM75/BLU37 ~95
Feather Storm damage average for BLU75/COR15 ~180

There is no way in hell that damage could double itself. With other variable fixed, I can confirm that blue magic skill is proportionate to its attack power.



THAT'S WHY COMPARING Gnad vs Mirage with just base damage and/or modifier is INCORRECT, UNDERSTAND ? I have never defend Mirage, but throwing random equations like you did prove nothing.

I'm gonna start being a real dick if you don't start fucking reading.

Noone was arguing that Blue Magic Skill didn't add attack.

Edit: Kyte questioned it, not really the same thing~

The only thing I said regarding it, was that I'm simply not convinced that Blue Skill and TP'esk "Potency" are the only things that add attack to blue magic spells(What about STR?).

The formula's I used were very basic and standard as far as Blue Magic goes. If a physical spell has 50% mnd modifier, then its base dmg goes up 1 for every 2 mnd. fStr on Blue Magic Spells is generally agreed to raise base dmg every 4 str(My usage of the terminology might be off, but the same principle applies).

Don't be so fucking buttsore about the formulas I use. You've yet to give anyone anything better.

[Suiram]

I do want to point out that when I compared those two hats in the What's Better? thread, I made clear to stipulate at the end, "[...]unless there is more to Blue Magic Skill's effect on BLU physical than is already understood," and I try to at least mention that every time we make base damage comparisons, and likewise for DEF for cannonball. But, obviously if it's just a 1:1 type of deal, then the 5 attack from skill is going to be negligible (although I somewhat doubt it's just 1:1 because that would mean you only have 300ish attack on any spell). But, until someone does iron out exactly what skill does for "Blue Attack" (and VZX ran into issues with inconsistencies when he was trying to figure it out, as I recall) it's difficult to know exactly how to begin to compare an increase there to one in base damage.

Of course, what I really wanted to post about was the new hats lol I've been planning to make a new WS hat from it, and I'm running into something of a dilemma thinking about it. Obviously if you get the full benefit from Acc+10, WSacc+15, or both, then those options are going to increase your WS damage by more than any other combo. But I can't really think of how often my WSacc isn't already capped. With Enkidu and Gorget and such I actually work out to have slightly more Acc on WS than I do on TP, and I tend to be capped on Acc in TP since I'm not afraid to use pizza when the situation calls for it, and on Colibri (which I rarely fight anymore anyway) I'm capped with 1 mad eating meat. Not to mention, I think Vorpal--as with many WS--has an inherent accuracy bonus? (Could be wrong here, I can't recall.) So anyway, DEX+4, AGI+4, Crit Dmg+2%, WS Dmg+2%... what do you guys think?

[joekairo]

Does anyone have a spellcast of there blue mage? I have been dabbling at making one but I fail of course... Also when it comes to soloing imps what is a good spell make up?

[Sirrus_Asura]

Does anyone have a spellcast of there blue mage? I have been dabbling at making one but I fail of course... Also when it comes to soloing imps what is a good spell make up?

Here's mine =P.

<?xml version="1.0" ?>
<spellcast>
       <config AutoLoadXML="True" RequireVersion="2.17" Debug="False" ShowGearSwaps="False"/>
	 <sets>
		<group name="Blue" default="yes">
		<set name = "Standard">	
                            			<head>Walahra Turban</head>
                            			<neck>Fortitude Torque</neck>
		                            	<lear>Suppanomimi</lear>
                            			<rear>Brutal Earring</rear>
		                            	<body>Mirage Jubbah</body>
                            			<hands>Dusk Gloves</hands>
                                		<rring>Rajas Ring</rring>
                                		<lring>Blood Ring</lring>
		                            	<back>Cuchulain's Mantle</back>
                          			<waist>Swift Belt</waist>
		                         	<legs>Homam Cosciales</legs>
                                		<feet>Homam Gambieras</feet>
			</set>
			<set name="HeadButt" BaseSet="Standard">
	                  			<rear>Loquacious Earring</rear>
		                             	<body>Magus Jubbah +1</body>
			</set>
			
			<set name="Physical" BaseSet="Standard">
				
				<lring>Flame Ring</lring>
				<waist>Warwolf Belt</waist>
				<lear>Triumph Earring</lear>
				<rear>Triumph Earring</rear>
				<neck>Kubira Bead Necklace</neck>
				<hands>Enkidu's Mittens</hands>
				<feet>Marine M Boots</feet>
				<legs>Enkidu's Subligar</legs>
				<head>Gnadbhod's Helm</head>
				<body>Magus Jubbah +1</body>
				<back>Cuchulain's Mantle</back>
			</set>
			
			<set name="Vertical" BaseSet="Physical">
				<head>Gnadbhod's Helm</head>
				<back>Smilodon Mantle+1</back>
				<feet>Denali Gamashes</feet>
				<hands>Alkyoneus's Bracelets</hands>
			</set>
			
			<set name="Ram" BaseSet="Vertical">
				<lring>Aqua Ring</lring>
				<head>Magus Keffiyeh +1</head>
			</set>

			<set name="Cannon" BaseSet="Vertical">
				
				<feet>Rutter Sabatons</feet>
			</set>
			
			<set name="Conserve" BaseSet="Standard">

				<head>Cobra Unit Cloche</head>
				<hands>Cobra Unit Gloves</hands>
				<legs>Cobra Unit Trews</legs>
				<feet>Cobra Unit Crackows</feet>
				<body>Magus Jubbah +1</body>
				<rear>Loquacious Earring</rear>
				
				
			</set>		
			
			<set name="Diamondhide" BaseSet="Conserve">
				
				<head>Walahra Turban</head>
				<legs>Homam Cosciales</legs>
			</set>
			
			<set name="Magic Int" BaseSet="Standard">
				
				<head>Magus Keffiyeh +1</head>
				<hands>Yigit Gages</hands>
				<neck>Uggalepih Pendant</neck>
				<legs>Mahatma Slops</legs>
				<feet>Denali Gamashes</feet>
				<lear>Moldavite Earring</lear>
				<rear>Cunning Earring</rear>
				<rring>Omega Ring</rring>
				<lring>Snow Ring</lring>
				<back>Prism Cape</back>
				<body>Errant Houppelande</body>
				<waist>Penitent's Rope</waist>
			</set>
			
			<set name="MagicAcc" BaseSet="Magic Int">
				
				<head>Mirage Keffiyeh</head>
				<body>Magus Jubbah +1</body>
				<rear>Loquacious Earring</rear>
				<neck>Promise Badge</neck>
			</set>
			
			<set name="SpeedMagicAcc" BaseSet="MagicAcc">
				
				<legs>Homam Cosciales</legs>
				<feet>Homam Gambieras</feet>
				<waist>Swift belt</waist>
				<head>Walahra Turban</head>
				<hands>Dusk Gloves</hands>
			</set>

			<set name="Fire" BaseSet="Magic Int">
				
				<main>Vulcan's Staff</main>
				<sub>Bugard Leather Strap +1</sub>
			</set>
			
			<set name="Water" BaseSet="Magic Int">
				
				<main>Neptune's Staff</main>
				<sub>Bugard Leather Strap +1</sub>
			</set>
			
			<set name="Magic Mnd" BaseSet="Magic Int">
			
				<neck>Promise Badge</neck>
				<rear>Loquacious Earring</rear>
				<lring>Aqua Ring</lring>
				<feet>Errant Pigaches</feet>
			</set>
			
			<set name="idle" BaseSet="Standard">
				
				<legs>Blood Cuisses</legs>
				<lring>Omega Ring</lring>
				<hands>Denali Wristbands</hands>
				<head>Mirage Keffiyeh</head>	
				<body>Mirage Jubbah</body>
			</set>
			
			<set name="Bludgeon" BaseSet="Standard">
				
				<body>Magus Jubbah +1</body>
				<hands>Enkidu's Mittens</hands>
				<feet>Denali Gamashes</feet>	
				<lear>Triumph Earring</lear>
				<rear>Triumph Earring</rear>
				<neck>Chivalrous Chain</neck>
				<head>Homam Zucchetto</head>		
				<back>Cuchulain's Mantle</back>

			</set>
			
			<set name="Resting" BaseSet="Standard">
				
				<main>Dark Staff</main>
				<body>Errant Houppelande</body>
				<waist>Hierarch Belt</waist>
				<feet>Numerist Pumps</feet>
			</set>
			
			<set name="Vorpal" BaseSet="Standard">
				
				<head>Gnadbhod's Helm</head>
				<hands>Enkidu's Mittens</hands>
				<back>Cuchulain's Mantle</back>
				<legs>Enkidu's Subligar</legs>
				<waist>Warwolf Belt</waist>
				<feet>Marine M Boots</feet>
				<body>Mirke Wardecors</body>
				<neck>Thunder Gorget</neck>
			</set>
			
			<set name="Savage" BaseSet="Vorpal Blade">
				
				<hands>Alkyoneus's Bracelets</hands>
				<lring>Aqua Ring</lring>
				<legs>Enkidu's Subligar</legs>
				<feet>Denali Gambieras</feet>
				<back>Forager's Mantle</back>
			</set>
	</group>
	</sets>
	<rules>
		<if spell="Autoset">
			<action type="equip" when="resting" set="Resting" />
			<action type="equip" when="idle" set="idle" />
			<action type="equip" when="engaged" set="Standard" />
		</if>
		
		<if Skill="BlueMagic">
			<if spell="Disseverment|Frenetic Rip|Hysteric Barrage|Sickle Slash">
				<action type="equip" when="precast" set="Physical" />
				<action type="equip" when="AfterCast" set="Standard"/>
			</if>
			<if spell="Sprout Smack|Wild Oats|Queasyshroom|Battle Dance|Head Butt|Feather Storm|Helldive|Pinecone Bomb|Terror Touch|Frypan|Tail Slap|Asuran Claws">
				<action type="equip" when="precast" set="HeadButt" />
				<action type="equip" when="AfterCast" set="Standard"/>
			</if>
			<if spell="Vertical Cleave|Death Scissors|Dimensional Death|Spinal Cleave|Mandibular Bite">
				<action type="equip" when="precast" set="Vertical" />
				<action type="equip" when="AfterCast" set="Standard"/>
			</if>
			<if spell="Bludgeon">
				<action type="equip" when="precast" set="Bludgeon"/>
				<action type="equip" when="AfterCast" set="Standard"/>
			</if>
			<if spell="Cannonball|Body Slam">
				<action type="equip" when="precast" set="Cannon"/>
				<action type="equip" when="AfterCast" set="Standard"/>
			</if>
			<if spell="Ram Charge">
				<action type="equip" when="precast" set="Ram"/>
				<action type="equip" when="AfterCast" set="Standard"/>
			</if>
			<if spell= "Maelstrom|Corrosive Ooze|Regurgitation">
				<action type="equip" when="precast" set="Water"/>
			</if>
			<if spell="Firespit">
				<action type="equip" when="precast" set="Fire"/>
			</if>
			<if spell="Pollen|Healing Breeze|Magic Fruit|Magic Hammer|Exuviation|Wild Carrot|Mind Blast">
				<action type="equip" when="precast" set="Magic  Mnd"/>
				<action type="equip" when="AfterCast" set="Standard"/>
			</if>
			<if spell="Metallic Body|Zephyr Mantle|Cocoon|Refueling|Feather Barrier|Momento Mori|Enervation|Warm-Up|Amplification|Saline Coat|Reactor Cool|Plasma Charge">
				<action type="equip" when="precast" set="Conserve"/>
				<action type="equip" when="AfterCast" set="Standard"/>
			</if>
			<if spell="Diamondhide">
				<action type="equip" when="precast" set="Diamondhide"/>
				<action type="equip" when="AfterCast" set="Standard"/>
			</if>
			<if spell="Sheep Song|Blood Drain|Soporific|Sound Blast|Chaotic Eye|Digest|Venom Shell|Stinking Gas|Awful Eye|Blood Saber|Jettatura|Frightful Roar|Filamented Hold|Cold Wave|Light of Penance|1000 Needles|Feather Tickle|Yawn|Voracious Trunk|Infrasonics|Sandspray|Enervation|Lowing">
				<action type="equip" when="precast" set="MagicAcc"/>
				<action type="equip" when="AfterCast" set="Standard"/>
			</if>
			<if spell="Temporal Shift|Actinic Burst|MP Drainkiss|Geist Wall|Blank Gaze">
				<action type="equip" when="precast" set="SpeedMagicAcc"/>
				<action type="equip" when="AfterCast" set="Standard"/>
			</if>
			
		</if>
		<if commandprefix="/ws|/weaponskill"> <!--When using Weapon Skills -->
				<if Mode="AND" spell="SavageBlade" Status="Engaged"> 
					<action type="equip" when="precast" set="Savage" />
					<action type="AftercastDelay" delay="3"/>
					<action type="equip" when="AfterCast" set="Standard"/>
				</if>
				<elseif mode="AND" notspell="SavageBlade" Status="Engaged">
					<action type="equip" when="precast" set="Vorpal" />
					<action type="AftercastDelay" delay="3"/>
					<action type="equip" when="AfterCast" set="Standard"/>

				</elseif>
		</if>
		
	</rules>
</spellcast>

For imps I use this:

Headbutt
Sprout Smack
Bludgeon
Frenetic Rip
Disseverment
Self Destruct
Frightfull Roar
Sound Blast(For MaB)
Refueling
Metallic Body
Act. Burst
Wild Carrot(More MP efficient than Fruit)
Chaotic Eye
Zephyr Mantle
Magic Hammer
Blank Gaze
Regurgit.

I try not to zerg kill the imps, hence no Hysteric. Bludgeon helps me conserve my MP.

[Yugl]

You set sound blast, but the only spell you use which is affected by it is regurgitation (Which has less MP efficiency than Hysteric Barrage).

[Zelduh]

You set sound blast, but the only spell you use which is affected by it is regurgitation (Which has less MP efficiency than Hysteric Barrage).

Magic Hammer.

[Toth]

Okay, need some help here.

Last night, I had to listen to about 30 minutes of BLU bashing from my LS. In summary, they feel the job is the most inferior in the game and otherwise useless. I've only played BLU at events in recent months and I do not feel the job deserves this distinction. Am I wrong to challenge this notion or should I simply accept the critcism? What can I do to prove them wrong if their accusations are unfounded?

[Dimmauk]

Okay, need some help here.

Last night, I had to listen to about 30 minutes of BLU bashing from my LS. In summary, they feel the job is the most inferior in the game and otherwise useless. I've only played BLU at events in recent months and I do not feel the job deserves this distinction. Am I wrong to challenge this notion or should I simply accept the critcism? What can I do to prove them wrong if their accusations are unfounded?

What were they saying BLU sucked at?

[Toth]

In a word, everything. They wanted to prove their point by having my blu (full relic, enkidu, proper gear for the big three) going up against a full usukane sam and a full ares drg and parsing at least 50% of their overall damage. Of course to do that, I would have to forego any headbutts, frightful roars (non-birds), and any MP management. It's a battle and argument I probably could not win no matter what the parse says.

[Seraph]

In a word, everything. They wanted to prove their point by having my blu (full relic, enkidu, proper gear for the big three) going up against a full usukane sam and a full ares drg and parsing at least 50% of their overall damage. Of course to do that, I would have to forego any headbutts, frightful roars (non-birds), and any MP management. It's a battle and argument I probably could not win no matter what the parse says.

Remember, with Frightful Roar, you can claim that 10% of all of their damage is yours, and almost be right!

[Teorem]

In a word, everything. They wanted to prove their point by having my blu (full relic, enkidu, proper gear for the big three) going up against a full usukane sam and a full ares drg and parsing at least 50% of their overall damage. Of course to do that, I would have to forego any headbutts, frightful roars (non-birds), and any MP management. It's a battle and argument I probably could not win no matter what the parse says.

Parsing in merit is hardly "everything."

- A SAM with full Usukane isn't going to survive Citadel Buster.
- A DRG with full Ares isn't going to solo for over 10k an hour on a regular and consistent basis.
- Neither have a high accuracy Stun on a five-second timer, much less five different ways to Stun.

Both jobs--and pretty much any melee--have significant dependency problems on anything that forces them to choose a melee-centric subjob.

BLU has almost unmatched versatility, but requires significant investment in equipment (and inventory space) to pull it off. Even though it's obvious you'll do less damage overall in a merit party at 75, the general criticism that the job is completely useless is stupid.