Blue Mage: Best thread ever

[Nevex]

In a word, everything. They wanted to prove their point by having my blu (full relic, enkidu, proper gear for the big three) going up against a full usukane sam and a full ares drg and parsing at least 50% of their overall damage. Of course to do that, I would have to forego any headbutts, frightful roars (non-birds), and any MP management. It's a battle and argument I probably could not win no matter what the parse says.

It's like comparing SAM vs melee RDM in terms of damage output. Of course SAM will always win, but does that mean RDM is a useless job?

BLU is good at everything, but not awesome at anything.
You can attempt to gear the job towards a specific role (and most of the time, people do that in order to replace a melee DD), but as you've probably seen, it won't work out too well if you try to turn BLU into a pseudo-copy of another job.

But still, BLU has so many strong points to differientate it from other jobs it's not even funny.
It's the only job that can deal consistent physical and magic damage (PLD, COR, SMN and PUP can too, but they all have recast/TP/pet limitations, which are worse than BLU's MP ones), has one of the most enmity generating (if not the most) abilities in the game in Diffusion+Exuviation, a ridicolously overpowered damage+superstrong Bind spell in Regurgitation, the shortest recast stun ability in the game that doesn't require a 2h (although not always reliable).... this is just scratching the surface of the job's potential.

The job loses effectiveness in large scale events where you're more likely to have more specialized jobs to cover a certain role (and even then, it has a niche in Cannonball in those cases), but otherwise BLU is almost always a solid choice (except Arrapago Remnants since without cells it's fairly useless) as long as you play it by its strenghts (read: BLUs that can only spam the big three and pretend to be top DDs everywhere can gtfo).

[Sho]

In a word, everything. They wanted to prove their point by having my blu (full relic, enkidu, proper gear for the big three) going up against a full usukane sam and a full ares drg and parsing at least 50% of their overall damage. Of course to do that, I would have to forego any headbutts, frightful roars (non-birds), and any MP management. It's a battle and argument I probably could not win no matter what the parse says.

That was a blantly stupid remark your LS made. Of course a BLU can't beat a MNK or a DRG in merits. Even the highest end of BLU wouldn't be able to out parse a top geared MNK, we just aren't built for it due to our constant need for MP.

The reason why I say it's stupid is because like most other jobs, BLU is situationally useful-- great for SA Cannonballing a plethora of HNM, soloing imps (not limited to imps, but they are the most effective per exp), holding their own in Nyzul Isle, landing Frightful Roar on multiple mobs and/or healing in Einherjar (which is more important than DDing), one of the top jobs to use for collecting exp/merit points via Campaign, and one of the best jobs to have and use in most mission fights (all that amongst other things not mentioned). Is DRG & MNK better than BLU in those areas? Of course not. they have their own uses as well.

I wouldn't be too doubtful of BLU for merits, because you should already know you can't beat certain jobs in meripo on BLU.

[Lyriane]

- A DRG with full Ares isn't going to solo for over 10k an hour on a regular and consistent basis.

Bad example. >.> I'm pretty close to that, with no Wyrm Armet and using practically no Angons.

Actually came here to ask about Enchainment. Is it true that it only helps if it pushes you over 100 (or 2, or 3)? As in, it won't do squat for self-SC? Was this tested and proven? If so I feel kinda bad. I figured spells firing off as if I had 56% instead of 6% would actually be worth something.

Someone mentioned to me yesterday that this was the case, but if it hasn't been tested, maybe I should go do so before I finish capping it.

[Sho]

Bad example. >.> I'm pretty close to that, with no Wyrm Armet and using practically no Angons.

Actually came here to ask about Enchainment. Is it true that it only helps if it pushes you over 100 (or 2, or 3)? As in, it won't do squat for self-SC? Was this tested and proven? If so I feel kinda bad. I figured spells firing off as if I had 56% instead of 6% would actually be worth something.

Someone mentioned to me yesterday that this was the case, but if it hasn't been tested, maybe I should go do so before I finish capping it.

It doesn't need to be tested-- Job Traits are always active, and always working. It's really a misconception of how people view TP since everyone is accustomed to viewing WS dmg percentages at 100/200/300 intervals.

Ask yourself on any Weapon Skill who's damage is upped in increasing TP-- "Will <insert WS here> do more damage at 125% than at 160% TP?" Same case with Enchainment (and WARs Savagery merit).

[ronin sparthos]

In a word, everything. They wanted to prove their point by having my blu (full relic, enkidu, proper gear for the big three) going up against a full usukane sam and a full ares drg and parsing at least 50% of their overall damage. Of course to do that, I would have to forego any headbutts, frightful roars (non-birds), and any MP management. It's a battle and argument I probably could not win no matter what the parse says.

Sounds like your LS members are dense and think meripo is the endall of XI.

BLU can take Nyzul Isle mobs with little support, Head Butt is one of the most potent ways of neutralizing certain mobs (sup mobs with -GA or dangerous TP moves), Cannonball is a great way to stick damage on a monster from afar, Disseverment is a great DoT spell etc etc.

Blue Mage has many aspects to it (DD, breath damage, tank, support heals) that makes a very well balanced for most events. Sizing BLU up in a meripo is like taking DRG to an HNM and trying to grade it there.

Then again im not surprised, ignorance is bliss.

[Dimmauk]

In a word, everything. They wanted to prove their point by having my blu (full relic, enkidu, proper gear for the big three) going up against a full usukane sam and a full ares drg and parsing at least 50% of their overall damage. Of course to do that, I would have to forego any headbutts, frightful roars (non-birds), and any MP management. It's a battle and argument I probably could not win no matter what the parse says.

Sorry to say, but your LS isnt very informed. I'm sure a BLU couldnt beat those jobs in a EXP parse on GCs. Like the others have said, EXP parties are the only thing to do in FFXI. A good BLU can rock out in EXP too though. On Colibri, we can MP drainkiss, Sleep, and disseverment without worrying about reflected spells. I'm still surprised at the lack of knowledge people still have about this game.

With that said, I think I'll go unlock lolDRG job finally. I hear its good at EXP now.

[Yugl]

- A DRG with full Ares isn't going to solo for over 10k an hour on a regular and consistent basis.

Not with full Ares (Since that's just stupid, you only need the body for solo), but with a mix and match set, a DRG can come dangerously close to 10k XP.

Both jobs--and pretty much any melee--have significant dependency problems on anything that forces them to choose a melee-centric subjob.

What? DRG can sub mage and turn into the most potent healer in XP PTs. Nothing melee-centric about that at all. Two SAMs can tank Odin using sub NIN, which classifies more as a tank-centric sub than a melee-centric sub.

[Valisk]

The only reason Teorem said full Ares's DRG is because that's what Toth said his LS members were comparing BLUs to. Full Usukane SAMs and full Ares's DRGs.

[Yugl]

The only reason Teorem said full Ares's DRG is because that's what Toth said his LS members were comparing BLUs to. Full Usukane SAMs and full Ares's DRGs.

I realize that, but I'm saying they're idiots if they're bragging about full Ares on DRG.

[Toth]

Well, that SAM is Vegetto/Cream Soda so let him come and defend himself. When I meant everything though, I was referring to EVERYTHING, not just meriting.

Perhaps I egged them on because I said my BLU can do very well in a merit party, to which they countered that any job is better for merits. BLU to them was dead last. My pride as BLU perked up but I eventually just had to back out of the argument. I understand that they were insulting the job, not myself as a player, but still, I don't believe BLU is anywhere close to useless.

I realize that, but I'm saying they're idiots if they're bragging about full Ares on DRG.

The person in question wasn't bragging about being full ares. I just mentioned him as having full ares and all the top notch DRG gear. He's really a highly skilled player that made me want to level DRG lol

[Yugl]

The person in question wasn't bragging about being full ares. I just mentioned him as having full ares and all the top notch DRG gear. He's really a highly skilled player that made me want to level DRG lol

Just saying that any piece aside from body (Solo) and legs (WS) is practically worthless unless you're in need of an ACC set.

[Dimmauk]

Well, that SAM is Vegetto/Cream Soda so let him come and defend himself. When I meant everything though, I was referring to EVERYTHING, not just meriting.

Perhaps I egged them on because I said my BLU can do very well in a merit party, to which they countered that any job is better for merits. BLU to them was dead last. My pride as BLU perked up but I eventually just had to back out of the argument. I understand that they were insulting the job, not myself as a player, but still, I don't believe BLU is anywhere close to useless.



The person in question wasn't bragging about being full ares. I just mentioned him as having full ares and all the top notch DRG gear. He's really a highly skilled player that made me want to level DRG lol

Either they are big morons, or they were trolling/messing with you. There is no way BLU is dead last in an EXP party. I guess they have never seen a BLU against Sky Gods, Omega, Ultima, Cerb, DI, Odin, etc...

[Kaslo]

BLU can do well in merit... sure there are better jobs, but you don't always have full usukane MNKs at you will and call.

[Wolfknight]

Just saying that any piece aside from body (Solo) and legs (WS) is practically worthless unless you're in need of an ACC set.

Dunno, I'd say mask/hands probably best pieces for jumps, though feet are meh.

[Yugl]

Dunno, I'd say mask/hands probably best pieces for jumps, though feet are meh.

Disagree, but that's for PMs or another topic.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Blue Mage is pretty amazing for a lot of different things; Meriting isn't one of them.

Even on Greater Colibri, your forte, you're going to be behind every two-handed DD, Ranger, Thief, and Monk(assuming they're allowed to sub WAR, which should be a given at Nyzul) without question(assuming equal levels of competence). You've got an edge over Beastmaster, Puppetmaster, and potentially Ninja.

On the bright side, most of those jobs can't just up and decide to solo ~10k/H on a whim. And as its been said, merit parties are hardly the end-all of XI.

[ClarkSammich]

This is a good discussion, since a lot of people are ill-informed about BLU, but it's giving me flash backs about the argument over BLU in merits a few pages back.

That being said! BLU can do fine in merits, just not as well as some other the other pure melee jobs. Also as far as comparing polearm SAM, and DRG to any other job (barring RNG, and a bad ass THF) on GC is like... "OK we're going to race each other down the street, but I get a motorcycle, and you get your feet." It's not a fair comparison.

Also this seems like a generic case of "I'm insecure and need to prove my job/dick is better/bigger than yours" syndrome.

[Zelduh]

Blue Mage is pretty amazing for a lot of different things; Meriting isn't one of them.

Even on Greater Colibri, your forte, you're going to be behind every two-handed DD, Ranger, Thief, and Monk(assuming they're allowed to sub WAR, which should be a given at Nyzul) without question(assuming equal levels of competence). You've got an edge over Beastmaster, Puppetmaster, and potentially Ninja.

On the bright side, most of those jobs can't just up and decide to solo ~10k/H on a whim. And as its been said, merit parties are hardly the end-all of XI.

PUP can outparse any DD in merits.

[Teorem]

Bad example. >.> I'm pretty close to that, with no Wyrm Armet and using practically no Angons.

Actually, it's a good example. I DO have all of that and my DRG soloing doesn't even come close to my BLU soloing--which was achieving well over 10k/hr at its peak--and I've been soloing both (though admittedly not having Ares's, of course) for years. And that's assuming you actually have a good supply of Sea Puks or colibri available somehow on DRG, because there are plenty of Heraldic Imps out there to compare with on BLU that aren't being snatched up by merit parties.

Actually came here to ask about Enchainment. Is it true that it only helps if it pushes you over 100 (or 2, or 3)? As in, it won't do squat for self-SC? Was this tested and proven? If so I feel kinda bad. I figured spells firing off as if I had 56% instead of 6% would actually be worth something.

No, as in Enchainment helps regardless of the TP you have accumulated. This was discussed not long ago--probably within the last 10 pages or so--with Cannonball or Vertical Cleave in particular, in the context of whether the damage scaled by tiers or linearly.

What? DRG can sub mage and turn into the most potent healer in XP PTs. Nothing melee-centric about that at all. Two SAMs can tank Odin using sub NIN, which classifies more as a tank-centric sub than a melee-centric sub.

That's why I said a MELEE subjob makes them dependent. A DRG/THF or a DRG/WAR or a DRG/SAM and generally most melee/melee depends on other people to keep them alive while they deal their significant damage (this being the crux of argument of why BLU was considered comparatively useless, because it did not parse as well). A BLU, while needing to also make certain subjob choices for whatever situation you're looking at, has a lot more going for it in terms of self-sufficiency right out of the box due to its versatility coming from the broad range of spells you can set (and some of the flexibility you have in being able to sacrifice a little efficiency for additional utility).

With the considerations you'd have to have in place in order for a SAM/NIN to tank Odin effectively (Slow II, Paralyze II, Elegy, etc.), would a BLU/NIN not fare just as well, if not better? There's already other examples of other NMs (Proto-Ultima, Jailer of Love) and whole events (early Einherjar Wings) that a BLU can tank well that another melee would have trouble with because of the buffs a BLU has access to.

[Charismatic]

PUP can outparse any DD in merits.

wat