Blue Mage: Best thread ever

[Tsuko_Asura]

I don't see how that's a parallel comparison. Based on the fact that Treasure Hunter requires that a thief is on the hate list, they can either sit there and do nothing, or they can participate in some small way. Conversely, blue mage is either a good choice(Yilbegan?) or a bad choice(essentially everything else). You come BLU for for the former, you come a better job for everything else. Considering the former doesn't require a melee build, it still seems like you're preparing for absolutely nothing.

[Ddboner]

At the risk of sounding like I'm trolling(genuinely not trying to), why do you all care about melee weapons? I understand that BLU has(one?) niche and a few things that they're decent alternatives for, but I can't think of a single thing that BLU is even remotely good at that involves you meleeing.

Not trolling eh?

I guess you thought "Hey, I'll kindly remind all the Blue Mages that read BG that their job is a useless tit and maybe it will save them all that time and effort bothering to gear it"

Right...

[Tsuko_Asura]

I wouldn't have bothered with the positive disclaimers if all I wanted to do was point out that BLU is a waste of time. It just seems like you all put a heck of a lot of effort into something that's about as relevant as a Death Blossom build, and I'm wondering if there's something obvious that I'm missing.

Go back to lurking. The big kids are having a discussion.

[Nightfyre]

How does x2 STR Shamshir compare to say, DA/STR?

My honest opinion on this at the moment is that STR/STR is a more than acceptable option. The relative value of the DA and OAT swords may change with the next update(s) and there's no telling what other paths might be introduced. STR/STR won't lock up your Khanda and potentially force repeating trials if you're heavy into weapon optimization, and with everything there is to do right now time is at a premium. In addition, it's great for /RDM situations (heavily skewed spell:melee split) and will also be a strong competitor for /NIN at 90 given that DW III will accelerate TP gain. Even STR/OAT will be below 180 delay/hand at that point but STR/STR will still generate better TP/min before accounting for OAT.

Haven't forgot about my promise of releasing a full workup... it's not quite where I'd like it to be but I think I'm about as far as I can take it given the vagarities involved in BLU DPS calculations. Should be posted in the next day or two.

[Ddboner]

Okay then, since you genuinely aren't trolling,

In my case personally I don't do HNM anymore so that leaves a lot of time to do stuff like limbus/VNM/dynamis/random poking of shit to help friends etc, usually in numbers of less than a pt.

In these cases I find my BLU to be infinity more useful than say my war or drg because I can tank well (especially with Fast cast trait and gear stacked, as well as -40% PDT(roughly)) headbutt spam, DD well, heal and buff myself (I don't have to rely on my buddy who is afk 1/3 of the time or watching TV etc.. or a dual box RDM).

While doing these things I want to do the most Damage I can, so I try to get the best gear I can, and the shamshir for example is a nice boost in dmg over Kogglemander lets say for its higher D alone, not to mention the stats that are boosting the spells I spam already. Given I may focus on Vertical Cleave, or Disseverment/F.Rip for my dmg base, I want to have a sword that best compliments each spell set up.

Now with more updates I don't want to be level 99 duoing dynamis with a D44 sword lol, so best to get prepared now, since I do enjoy playing the game, yes even the grind, well more-so the completion of a goal I guess, it works out.

This stuff may not be useful by your standards but they are very to me.

Sorry If I misunderstood your question or the intention behind it, I just really didn't believe that you needed a list of things where a BLU could possibly find itself poking a monster.

Please don't rip apart my grammar or sentence structure as I draft for a living and writing is not my strong suit.

[ronin sparthos]

I wouldn't have bothered with the positive disclaimers if all I wanted to do was point out that BLU is a waste of time. It just seems like you all put a heck of a lot of effort into something that's about as relevant as a Death Blossom build, and I'm wondering if there's something obvious that I'm missing.

Go back to lurking. The big kids are having a discussion.

As I said with THF and TH whore, at the end of the day you could show up to an event with nothing but THF knife, relic gloves, pizza - stick feint and get on the hatelist for TH. You'd be "doing what the job is best at" as once you're on the hatelist you can just sit back until items fall. You mention "doing their small part" but why? THF aren't the best DD so why waste my inventory on gear when I can use 3 pieces to fulfill my part?

BLU is not the best DD but if someone shows up to an event on BLU should they just not bother showing up at all? Don't answer that, im sure you'd say then they are retarded for not having another option.

Some people like to play jobs not to be the best but to have fun. It's why Mandaus, Vajras, Kikokus, Kekonkens etc exist. Yes, I understand such words as fun are subjective but only a minority play in the vacuum that is only taking the best job to every event. If you play a job, you equip it as best as possible regardless of where it stands on the totem pole to be the best you can at any event. Anything short of this is being a gimp, regardless of rationalizations.

Besides, it doesn't matter. Some people like to toy around with most of the old-shit content in this game with other jobs just to see what they can do while others continue to used the tried/true way to completing it as quick as possible. Either way you go, it's a game and the random number generator doesn't care if you have 3 SAMs, 3 PUPs or 3 RNGs.

[Tsuko_Asura]

BLU is not the best DD but if someone shows up to an event on BLU should they just not bother showing up at all? Don't answer that, im sure you'd say then they are retarded for not having another option.

Could have stopped here. Having BLU and BLU alone while simultaneously expecting people to let you participate in all manners group-oriented content is selfish, and a massive waste of everyone's time. That said, yes, it is retarded to not have an alternative.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Okay then, since you genuinely aren't trolling,

In my case personally I don't do HNM anymore so that leaves a lot of time to do stuff like limbus/VNM/dynamis/random poking of shit to help friends etc, usually in numbers of less than a pt.

In these cases I find my BLU to be infinity more useful than say my war or drg because I can tank well (especially with Fast cast trait and gear stacked, as well as -40% PDT(roughly)) headbutt spam, DD well, heal and buff myself (I don't have to rely on my buddy who is afk 1/3 of the time or watching TV etc.. or a dual box RDM).

While doing these things I want to do the most Damage I can, so I try to get the best gear I can, and the shamshir for example is a nice boost in dmg over Kogglemander lets say for its higher D alone, not to mention the stats that are boosting the spells I spam already. Given I may focus on Vertical Cleave, or Disseverment/F.Rip for my dmg base, I want to have a sword that best compliments each spell set up.

Now with more updates I don't want to be level 99 duoing dynamis with a D44 sword lol, so best to get prepared now, since I do enjoy playing the game, yes even the grind, well more-so the completion of a goal I guess, it works out.

This stuff may not be useful by your standards but they are very to me.

Sorry If I misunderstood your question or the intention behind it, I just really didn't believe that you needed a list of things where a BLU could possibly find itself poking a monster.

Please don't rip apart my grammar or sentence structure as I draft for a living and writing is not my strong suit.

Clearly a case of wanting to play BLU when BLU isn't necessarily appropriate, then. But hell, if you've found people who don't particularly care what job you're on, I have no place picking it apart any further.

[Draylo]

I wouldn't have bothered with the positive disclaimers if all I wanted to do was point out that BLU is a waste of time. It just seems like you all put a heck of a lot of effort into something that's about as relevant as a Death Blossom build, and I'm wondering if there's something obvious that I'm missing.

Ouch, that is some heavy BLU hating there... I think you have been playing with too many shit BLU's because you highly underestimate the dmg BLU is capable of in a lot of scenario's, especially low buff situations (BRD only or none). BLU is capable of dealing a lot of damage and to compare it to a melee RDM is silly... Have you NEVER done an event with a competent and well geared BLU?

[Samonez]

Could have stopped here. Having BLU and BLU alone while simultaneously expecting people to let you participate in all manners group-oriented content is selfish, and a massive waste of everyone's time. That said, yes, it is retarded to not have an alternative.

harsh man.


I don't exactly have anything besides BLU. Than again, I also have a nuking and healing setup, and I know how to use them.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Ouch, that is some heavy BLU hating there... I think you have been playing with too many shit BLU's because you highly underestimate the dmg BLU is capable of in a lot of scenario's, especially low buff situations (BRD only or none). BLU is capable of dealing a lot of damage and to compare it to a melee RDM is silly... Have you NEVER done an event with a competent and well geared BLU?

Most people won't argue that melee don't belong in situations that are completely devoid of any buffers, but on the same token, those people won't argue that those situations shouldn't happen to any competent group.

Don't see why this is relevant though, those situations have nothing to do with BLU meleeing, and BLU gets little to no benefit from being buffed(quite the same as PUP and BST, which are equally undesirable in such situations).

[Yugl]

Could have stopped here. Having BLU and BLU alone while simultaneously expecting people to let you participate in all manners group-oriented content is selfish

What is your premise for reaching this conclusion? Break it down until it reaches a self-referent.

[Draylo]

Maybe I didn't get clear what you were referring to then, are you saying BLU is useless for every single event in this game? Limbus/Dynamis/Einherjar/etc? There are some events in this game that I will say bringing a melee oriented BLU to is silly, such as zergs, higher strength mobs like HNM. I think you are wrong to say that BLU is useless in Limbus/Dynamis/Einherjar though as a melee oriented job. BLU can put up big numbers and even now with /RDM, self refresh and self haste they can deal a lot more damage. Stun lock can be extremely valuable for a lot of fights and, at this stage in the game especially, not everyone has optimal support for every single event.

[Tsuko_Asura]

We really don't need to continue, though. I got my answer, and acknowledged that BLU has a purpose. Going any further is just going to dig into more things you already know about my opinion regarding the job.

G'day

[Draylo]

Most people won't argue that melee don't belong in situations that are completely devoid of any buffers, but on the same token, those people won't argue that those situations shouldn't happen to any competent group.

Don't see why this is relevant though, those situations have nothing to do with BLU meleeing, and BLU gets little to no benefit from being buffed(quite the same as PUP and BST, which are equally undesirable in such situations).

BLU actually gets a lot from buffs where you would bring it for melee oriented fighting. Sword DOT is not something to laugh at for a BLU. Especially now with the new WS we got, Sanguine Blade. I just don't know which fights you are talking about, because I know you understand for the stronger mobs such as HNM we have nuking sets and cannonball/specific spell builds that we wouldn't run up and start TPing on it with swords etc... For events like Limbus/Dyna/Einherjar etc, BLU isn't horrible at all, especially with those buffs on that a normal DD would have (brds/cor etc).

[Nevex]

Could have stopped here. Having BLU and BLU alone while simultaneously expecting people to let you participate in all manners group-oriented content is selfish, and a massive waste of everyone's time. That said, yes, it is retarded to not have an alternative.

The bolded part is kind of a contraddition when you posted that a BLU worrying about his/her melee setup is essentially like worrying for "nothing". Discourage BLUs from improving their melee setup, then complain about their presence being a waste before they even get a chance to show their usefulness.
Yes I know that parses speak clear and BLU is almost at the bottom when it comes to melee damage, but it was never meant to be the top DD, that's not its role.

This argument has been done and redone to death but I'll bring it up once again.
The only jobs you really "need" for 95% of FFXI's content are more or less: BLM, RDM, WHM, BRD, *insert generic melee DD here*, dualboxed TH4 whore and PLD.
You can't realistically expect that people who have leveled one or more of the other 13-14 jobs and enjoy them are just going to accept that they'll see no usage whatsoever.

If you prioritize moneymaking and equip farming/time ratio over everything else, then BLU as well as a few other FFXI jobs is indeed harmful to your linkshell.
If you're willing to give up a few minutes of your life for each event while enjoying a job that has more customization and versatility than half of the other jobs combined, then BLU is perfectly acceptable choice. Besides if your linkshell (unless we're talking about extreme lowman situations) has noticiable troubles because someone shows up as a BLU instead of SAM or RNG then it sucks in the first place.

Considering the size of this topic alone, I'd say that a lot of people think that perfect efficiency in a videogame isn't everything. But they're obviously wrong. All it matters is full clearing a town Dynamis zone that you have done about 200 times with 60 minutes to spare.

[Tsuko_Asura]

What is your premise for reaching this conclusion? Break it down until it reaches a self-referent.

I'll respond to this, considering it doesn't specifically have to do with BLU. If you're aware that your job is very much second string when it comes to everything but one or two events, and you happen to be in a linkshell that does a hell of a lot more than just those two events, and continue to only offer said job, you're being selfish. Its along the lines of demanding you come a melee job 100% of the time when you have every support job under the sun available, and said support is quite often necessary but nowhere to be found. I'm certainly not saying that you should be glued to whatever your group needs at all times, but that isn't fair(and your linkshell should either recruit someone who can, or insist that others pick up the slack), but to purposefully lock yourself into a less than useful position at everyone else's expense is, again, selfish.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Meh, whatever. I'll talk about all of this again if that's what everyone wants, lets just keep it civil.

Post what you want for now, I'm off to work. I'll read them later.

[Yugl]

Maybe I didn't get clear what you were referring to then, are you saying BLU is useless for every single event in this game? Limbus/Dynamis/Einherjar/etc? There are some events in this game that I will say bringing a melee oriented BLU to is silly, such as zergs, higher strength mobs like HNM. I think you are wrong to say that BLU is useless in Limbus/Dynamis/Einherjar though as a melee oriented job. BLU can put up big numbers and even now with /RDM, self refresh and self haste they can deal a lot more damage. Stun lock can be extremely valuable for a lot of fights and, at this stage in the game especially, not everyone has optimal support for every single event.

He was saying the only situations in which BLU is "desirable" are ones where BLU don't need sword. Yilbegan BLUs should be using staff (Occasionally sword if you're swarmed by mobs, but even then it's risky when using 6-man style). Regurgitation solos require elemental staffs. In group situations, where buffs are expected, BLU benefits very little compared to most melees for the same reasons BST and PUP do. Buffs such as March, Chaos roll, and Samurai roll do not affect our spells, which are responsible for a proportion of our damage. Similarly, BST and PUP pets do not receive the benefit of these buffs. DRG would fall in this category if it were dependent on the wyvern (Empathy would not solve this since it is tied to a healing ability). Furthermore, BLU abilities appear directed to solo activity since they're self-target only. While this may not appear so due to the addition of head butt and SATACA Vertical Cleave/Cannonball, their application is limited due to the mechanics of current mobs (Yet, it's still applicable; hence, why BLU excels at Yilbegan). That said, solo activity is the best application of BLU swords since they represent situations in which buffs are at minimum and self-target mechanics are not a hindrance (passive voice...).

That said, people who argue to intentionally exclude BLU mage are unknowingly creating motions towards buff BLU posts. Much like how DRG buffs dominated most forums because of the stigma they received, BLU will likely replicate this phenomena if harassment persists.

I'll respond to this, considering it doesn't specifically have to do with BLU. If you're aware that your job is very much second string when it comes to everything but one or two events, and you happen to be in a linkshell that does a hell of a lot more than just those two events, and continue to only offer said job, you're being selfish. Its along the lines of demanding you come a melee job 100% of the time when you have every support job under the sun available, and said support is quite often necessary but nowhere to be found. I'm certainly not saying that you should be glued to whatever your group needs at all times, but that isn't fair(and your linkshell should either recruit someone who can, or insist that others pick up the slack), but to purposefully lock yourself into a less than useful position at everyone else's expense is, again, selfish.

The term "useful" is going to throw this into mayhem, but for some, that means using the *best* class for the situation while for others it simply means meaningful contribution. BLU satisfies the latter as most linkshells and events allow you to replace a melee with a BLU without meaningful consequence (And may be the reason you win). Under this definition of "useful", BLU mage is useful. If useful refers to the best, then most melees qualify as less than useful. For example, Thorny advocates MNK as top tier DD. This would mean anyone coming as WAR, DRG, DRK, or even SAM is less than useful using the optimal definition of BLU. Specifically regarding "selfish", I would question that comment under either definition. If a linkshell recruits an individual with only BLU, it's likely that they feel BLU is a contribution (Whether that be a contribution because he is a friend of someone, helping the LS more often than other DDs would, or actually replacing DDs). More clearly stated, if an individual were selfish because he only has BLU leveled, why would the linkshell recruit him? There are answers to this such as "he promised to level BRD", which would put him at fault, but even if their reasoning is something as ridiculous as "We feel at ease when we have a BLU with us", he is contributing to an indirect aspect of the activity (And for those who laugh at this aspect, see the first PW for real laughs).

[Nightfyre]

Since we've moved into a mechanics discussion...

BLU gets little to no benefit from being buffed(quite the same as PUP and BST, which are equally undesirable in such situations).

I'm not quite willing to go as far as saying it benefits on the same level as PUP and BST, though it's not far off. While it certainly doesn't receive the same benefits from haste that a pure melee will enjoy, adding March/Ballad is still a pretty hefty contribution to a BLU's damage. Yes, it's tailored support, but I don't feel that it's too much to expect. We obviously benefit less from a COR or DNC, but many shells can't field two buffers for every DD party these days.

I'm certainly not saying that you should be glued to whatever your group needs at all times, but that isn't fair(and your linkshell should either recruit someone who can, or insist that others pick up the slack), but to purposefully lock yourself into a less than useful position at everyone else's expense is, again, selfish.

Samonez evidently aside, what then is your take on those who have a good job spread but also primarily enjoy playing BLU? Should they always be asked to come on a specialized job or is it ok for them to bring BLU from time to time? Is there a threshold (number of members or such) where your answer would change?