Blue Mage: Best thread ever

[Zirael]

This^ , granted, my opinion of BLU has been slightly altered with the implementation of atma that essentially grant infinite MP. I still think you're better off with melee, but I'd be a fool to not recognize the increase in the job's power.

That aside, you seem to be pretty passionate about defending the silliness of JP practices. Protip: Most of them are terrible at this game. They're actually at a terrible disadvantage in that regard. They still have the same retard population the NA does, in addition to having most of their more "elite" players using retardedly conservative practices.

Hmm, I wouldn't go as far as 'defending' JP, more like I recognise their reasoning. BLU is not my main and doesn't get my full attention (magian trial wise) but is decently geared from my THF/RDM armor. When fighting ie. T-IT murexes I get occasional Head Butt resists, which doesn't happen if I change from MM to Stormbird atma, so I'd say I still lack few Macc points. Also, having fought Iron Giant HNM, Dvalinn/Durin or Bukhis I was getting unpleasant resists on my enfeebles at times on my RDM so to me "too much Macc" is never too much.
As of most JPs being terrible, maybe it's different on your server, but on mine during NA/EU time Whitegate is pretty much dead. On JP time you get all kinds of shouts going missions/atmas/seals/NMs. Another thing is, NA/EU are still oblivious to the idea of TE party, instead you get invites to Tahnogi with 2-3-5-10 leeches/skillers/magian-trial-logs. On my server it's NA/EU being stagnant/conservative, with JP side being pretty lively. At times I get to party with JPs, jobs are being assigned, WS/spells assigned, go in, do whatever needs to be done, go out. Last Friday I got NA/EU alliance in xp Konshtat abyssea: bugard. 1-2 key leech, rest of people ~80. My SCH81+/RDM was killing a bugard with 3 spells (atma MM+Beyond, Bliz4->sleep->Bliz4->Bliz3). In the time it took me to kill 1 bugard (I wasn't using Convert, and was being cured by 2 low level ~60 and ~73 BLMs) the DD alliance was killing ~3 bugards. I was having fun, but when my 80min+2xTE ran out and I got kicked, I just went to sleep and left people to do their skillup/magian-trial-WS. I haven't met that many JPs on my server (not speaking JP doesn't get you into many parties), but the ones I met/patried pretty much defend themselves. I'm kinda trying to say, during my prime time the game is quite depressing.
Sorry for the wall of text

[Kyte]

1) Totally agree
2) Light acc for brd, -perp for carbuncle are all that i have seen.

BRD makes sense, I just haven't seen it. Main reason why i never see SMN though is because it's already pretty easy to make carby free, so most spend their time on Garuda and Diabolos/Fenrir.

[Sylvrdragon]

I don't mind the Head Butt build answer, though personally, I would find it a waste of time since 3k HP is easier to get and makes many mobs laughable (with the aforementioned infinite MP WHMs). For lowmans and oddball strats though, I could see how a BLU dedicated to stun-lock makes many of them a joke. Hell, that was already the case back at 75 with certain NMs. I recall stun-locking Charybdis to the point where he didn't get an attack round off for over a full minute. The evasion tank we had at the time was wondering why I didn't just duo it with the BRD that wanted the sword.

Regarding that link of Yugl's post about the next step in optimizing damage output, I would say Enmity- will be the next priority. As we all know, if you pull hate on something you can't tank, you either have to stop casting, or you die. Either way, you stop doing damage. It would be great if we could give up a few slots to Enmity- and never have to stop.

Another factor could be Subtle Blow. As we all know, our best spells give the mobs a metric fuck-ton of TP. If we could gather up enough gear and rely on Atmas and spell sets to boost our damage rather than gear (aside from a few key pieces, of course), we could probably get it to the point where we're not a liability on mobs with dangerous TP moves (if there is such a thing when everyone has over 9000 HP)

[Tsuko_Asura]

I don't mind the Head Butt build answer, though personally, I would find it a waste of time since 3k HP is easier to get and makes many mobs laughable (with the aforementioned infinite MP WHMs). For lowmans and oddball strats though, I could see how a BLU dedicated to stun-lock makes many of them a joke. Hell, that was already the case back at 75 with certain NMs. I recall stun-locking Charybdis to the point where he didn't get an attack round off for over a full minute. The evasion tank we had at the time was wondering why I didn't just duo it with the BRD that wanted the sword.

The issue with this is that you're preventing something that's virtually pointless to prevent. Regardless of whether or not you have someone on "stun-lock" duty, you're going to have a healer of some sort(which if you're wise, will be a WHM). That means you have essentially limitless healing. Having your BLU sit there and stun instead of killing things faster causes the 300MP/tick refresh your WHM is probably getting to sit there and tick away at full MP.

[jimbobsonofgod]

Since I am seeing more of them anybody feel like mathing out those MAB swords for Sang blade since i doubt blu's cap MAB without a weapon.

[arus2001]

The issue with this is that you're preventing something that's virtually pointless to prevent. Regardless of whether or not you have someone on "stun-lock" duty, you're going to have a healer of some sort(which if you're wise, will be a WHM). That means you have essentially limitless healing. Having your BLU sit there and stun instead of killing things faster causes the 300MP/tick refresh your WHM is probably getting to sit there and tick away at full MP.

On the other hand, cures only come out so fast and if you wanna spell spam something like Gnawtooth Gary just to see him go Whirl Claw happy for 1500+ on anyone without shadows within 15', by all means, test your WHM.

[Nightfyre]

Another factor could be Subtle Blow. As we all know, our best spells give the mobs a metric fuck-ton of TP. If we could gather up enough gear and rely on Atmas and spell sets to boost our damage rather than gear (aside from a few key pieces, of course), we could probably get it to the point where we're not a liability on mobs with dangerous TP moves (if there is such a thing when everyone has over 9000 HP)

Nukes generally cover this situation, but if the NM is resistant to nukes this isn't a horrible idea imo. Rajas, Heed, Tiercel, Peiste Belt +1, and /NIN is 37 Subtle Blow, 42 next update. Not bad when your physical spells are 10 TP/hit.

Would really prefer SE alter our spell TP mechanics though

[arus2001]

I wanna be a bitch and say TP given should reflect damage done relative to the mob's max HP with a minimum of 1% TP per any type of damage/DoT tic, but that'd just piss off way too many people and make it more difficult to lowman some things.

[Yugl]

Just to point out a few things:
1. The haste remark is damage optimizing. Other suggestions sideline this motive (damage enhancing) for the sake of other benefits.
2. This is relevant to (1), but the reason we see ambivalence in action is because of the nature of Abyssea. The devs were smart with abyssea because they recognized the extremity that kill and burn activities produce. In order to circumvent this issue and enfranchise broader participation, SE ceased indirect tactics and adopted direct tactics. Evidence for this is in the !! and lights system.

New sets of responsibilities in Abyssea create legitimate reasons to stray from conventional practice (Maximizing a sector such as damage output). For example, Nightfyre argues for two STR Shamshirs because they produce the best output. While this is true, I argued for OAT specifically because it increases Sanguine Blade's frequency (Which does have a benefit for WS DMG total). Underlying our arguments are different realities (Premises). His argument espouses the traditional take on FFXI. Optimization of forces towards a general field of expertise. In the traditional model, all ends are towards faster kills. However, underlying my approach is the idea that Abyssea perpetuates tactics and scenarios that lead to valid assertions to deviate from this end. More specifically, the role of Sanguine blade in producing amber lights. For someone that likes to solo chest items, the benefit afforded by OAT emerges because SE has implemented a system specifically designed to reach ends other than optimal killing speed (As mentioned earlier, lights and !!).

Consider how our conflict would operate prior to Abyssea. As long as Night can prove that STR Shamshirs produce more damage, his argument would have prevailed because there is nothing specific about Sanguine blade that makes its optimization take priority over faster kills and better damage output. Even if one were to argue that Sanguine Blade's benefit arises from its ability to heal the player, this could be countered by increases in damage output that minimize future risk (i.e. risks that emerge by letting the mob live longer). Given the realm of Abyssea, we now have valid reasons to assert the admission of sideline optimization (Optimization that does not help improve kill speed). This is perplexing because, given the diversity of BLU, it obfuscates arguments of optimization. Consequently, unless the roles expected of all BLU converge, there will be disagreement. Note that this does not mean all differences in opinion are acceptable. It simply means the specificity and range of abilities that abyssea demands (And the list of blue !! emphasizes this point) increases the range of acceptable arguments regarding gear choice.

[Erics]

Hmm.. As of today I have been having problems with Quad C... It seems to be doing less damage then it normally would. Anyone else having problems or is my character being a fucktard today -.-?

[Sylvrdragon]

Just to point out a few things:
1. The haste remark is damage optimizing. Other suggestions sideline this motive (damage enhancing) for the sake of other benefits.
2. This is relevant to (1), but the reason we see ambivalence in action is because of the nature of Abyssea. The devs were smart with abyssea because they recognized the extremity that kill and burn activities produce. In order to circumvent this issue and enfranchise broader participation, SE ceased indirect tactics and adopted direct tactics. Evidence for this is in the !! and lights system.

New sets of responsibilities in Abyssea create legitimate reasons to stray from conventional practice (Maximizing a sector such as damage output). For example, Nightfyre argues for two STR Shamshirs because they produce the best output. While this is true, I argued for OAT specifically because it increases Sanguine Blade's frequency (Which does have a benefit for WS DMG total). Underlying our arguments are different realities (Premises). His argument espouses the traditional take on FFXI. Optimization of forces towards a general field of expertise. In the traditional model, all ends are towards faster kills. However, underlying my approach is the idea that Abyssea perpetuates tactics and scenarios that lead to valid assertions to deviate from this end. More specifically, the role of Sanguine blade in producing amber lights. For someone that likes to solo chest items, the benefit afforded by OAT emerges because SE has implemented a system specifically designed to reach ends other than optimal killing speed (As mentioned earlier, lights and !!).

Consider how our conflict would operate prior to Abyssea. As long as Night can prove that STR Shamshirs produce more damage, his argument would have prevailed because there is nothing specific about Sanguine blade that makes its optimization take priority over faster kills and better damage output. Even if one were to argue that Sanguine Blade's benefit arises from its ability to heal the player, this could be countered by increases in damage output that minimize future risk (i.e. risks that emerge by letting the mob live longer). Given the realm of Abyssea, we now have valid reasons to assert the admission of sideline optimization (Optimization that does not help improve kill speed). This is perplexing because, given the diversity of BLU, it obfuscates arguments of optimization. Consequently, unless the roles expected of all BLU converge, there will be disagreement. Note that this does not mean all differences in opinion are acceptable. It simply means the specificity and range of abilities that abyssea demands (And the list of blue !! emphasizes this point) increases the range of acceptable arguments regarding gear choice.

You are totally not the same Yugl that used to talk shit in /sh in Jueno/WG and have drama with Jaygcn.

[Nightfyre]

I was under the impression that discussion was for general use (ie I am getting these two weapons and that's it), not what weapons have niche but nonetheless valid uses. If that had been stated clearly (and/or I hadn't missed it, which I may have), I would have acknowledged OAT's use in building amber but still pointed towards STRx2 as the best overall setup. As it is I have PDT, OAT, and macc swords in various states of completion to complement my STR Shamshirs.

[Sho]

I was just abut to say "get off your lazy ass and do OAT Night."

I wouldn't be surprised if 90 update makes OAT into OA3 and D51~52. I still don't see a point to another STR Shamshir. Conversely, I see no point in finishing Tizona as well atm. Apart form that, a BLU-friend of mine is on his last Almace trial, may hap I can bother him to show Zorro <-> Blue Magic SCs.

[Atoreis]

I was just abut to say "get off your lazy ass and do OAT Night."

I wouldn't be surprised if 90 update makes OAT into OA3 and D51~52. I still don't see a point to another STR Shamshir. Conversely, I see no point in finishing Tizona as well atm. Apart form that, a BLU-friend of mine is on his last Almace trial, may hap I can bother him to show Zorro <-> Blue Magic SCs.

If someone is main BLU Almace is the only way i can see now. Zorro on blu with good buffs can probably break 5k maybe even 6k (lack of details what atma used RDM that did 4400).

[Darkmagi]

Slashing weak mob that was probably DC-EM. Most def had Razed ruins at the least, very good WS despite this though.

[Khidir]

I havent kept up but I came up with an idea for hannibal blade and three situational uses

1. Atma triggers(if you didn't get tp beforehand they live long enough to get tp)

2. Use it as tp build before starting a fight (CA +Efflux + spell) then switch to normal swords after

3. Blu/thf tp build gives your CA a nice boost and every bit helps

I realize this is BG and it's probrably been thought of before if it has then oh well the ideas just popped into my head after I got mine


My question is does Efflux + CA + Azure all stack the damage differences I'm getting so far implies that it does but I can only use all 3 at once and I know the first two stack with each other

[Draylo]

I was just abut to say "get off your lazy ass and do OAT Night."

I wouldn't be surprised if 90 update makes OAT into OA3 and D51~52. I still don't see a point to another STR Shamshir. Conversely, I see no point in finishing Tizona as well atm. Apart form that, a BLU-friend of mine is on his last Almace trial, may hap I can bother him to show Zorro <-> Blue Magic SCs.

Don't see how that is going to be that much more useful considering how much MP we get per tick now. If giving a lot of tp isn't an issue (if it is, why use the OAT/OA3 then) why aren't you spamming spells instead of waiting to tp to 100 to use SB or the like? If it's for a specific purpose then I can obviously see why, but in general use for DD potential, I don't. Also you realize STR shamshir will be enhanced as well with next update? How is more str for spells a bad thing.

I also agree with the MACC swords being pretty useless. Very few situations I would find them helpful and even then it's a waste of inventory space. Shouldn't need to spam head butt on most things in abyssea and if you do, I have no trouble landing them without macc swords.

[Kyte]

My question is does Efflux + CA + Azure all stack the damage differences I'm getting so far implies that it does but I can only use all 3 at once and I know the first two stack with each other

Azure Lore would max out the TP bonus to 350%, making Efflux only give the base damage from skill boost and Chain Affinity only give the boosted WSC. So yes they do stack, just not completely.

[Sylvrdragon]

Has it been decided that BLU wants the OAT Magian sword over the OA2-3 sword? I know that the damage on the [2-3] sword is utter shit, but if the whole point of getting the weapon is for TP gain, then shouldn't I go all the way?

To be clear, I don't even have an objective in mind for getting a multi-hit sword. It will just be something to play with. If it matters, I have RDM and PLD leveled too (though I may never touch my PLD again).

[jimbobsonofgod]

As long as you are wielding swords in abyssea at the end of the day I honestly believe that the stats of the swords have a minimal effect on blus.
Tizona - MP not an issue in abyssea macc shouldn't be needed with the gear you can get with macc
Alamce - ODD probably doesn't proc on the off sword, so only effect 50% of the time you are swinging, single handed damage on swords isn't enough to justify swinging vs casting +10 dex added to spells where you don't need the acc + abyssea dex buffs.
OAT/OA2-3 - With near limitless MP for blu melee isn't a focus
Str-with abyssea buffs probably not doing much for spells.
macc - see tizona
So thoughts on whats the new best set up, move away from stat based weapons move onto enfeebling weapons like lowers def, magic att or something of the like? Cause its only going to get worse next update when we get even more abyssea buffs.