Blue Mage: Best thread ever

[Kaslo]

Yeah show how easy it is to tank Bennu never casting shadows on BLU/NIN with a whm spam healing and let's see how it ends up.

lolBennu, people still fight that thing?

[Draylo]

I like the part where you forgot that the same Lethal tp moves logic can be applied to Ni?
I mean I don't know how the rest of you guys play blu but I certainly don't cast shadows every time my timer is up.

Neither do I, I normally cast it after the first Death Scissors because he does it 3 times in a row sometimes. Other than that I just tank as normal with counterstance/no occultation, DS doesn't one shot me. I don't know any other circumstances that would mean lethal for a counterstanced tank... I've done it plenty on MNK and I've done it plenty on BLU/MNK, the difference between the two is like 300 hp or so when talking about eating TP moves only.

[TheDirtyHobo]

I wasn't the one who brought up the not having to use Ni. That was your little friend stating you don't need to cast Ni at all on NMs since defense isn't a factor.

I'm assuming "your little friend" is Merc?

Bennu, Amphitrite, Fuast(pixie, sp) and other fast attacking NMs will run a WHM MP if you are eating that much dmg by not casting shadows at all.

Please show me where he (or anyone, really) mentioned not using shadows at all before this statement.

[Draylo]

I'm assuming "your little friend" is Merc?



Please show me where he (or anyone, really) mentioned not using shadows at all before this statement.

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-No, none of those will run an actual whm out of mp. Hasso is sufficient to deal with them, ni is excessive.

-If survival isn't an issue, then you can just not cast shadows and sponge your WHM. Otherwise, those shadows serve a utility. That or just stick to Ni and the case time is negligible.

[TheDirtyHobo]

Just because you can find two separate posts that each fulfill one of the conditions doesn't mean they're both fulfilled.

[Draylo]

Just because you can find two separate posts that each fulfill one of the conditions doesn't mean they're both fulfilled.

What are you talking about? Your friend is saying Ni is excessive, which to me means you don't need to use it at all. Unless I am misunderstanding something, you asked where he said don't need to use shadows at all?

[Norrissnake]

Man... Its like a political battle up in here.

[Draylo]

Mostly a personal battle, notice the opposition is the people who are in the same LS and dislike me. The whole arguement seems to be 10% delay reduction vs counter damage to them. To me it's, 10% delay reduction + casting shadow downtime/fast cast gear vs counter damage/60% counter to reduce overall dmg taken, especially vs fast mobs.

[TheDirtyHobo]

"Before" is a pretty difficult word to understand. And where exactly have I implied I'm disagreeing with you because I dislike you? I have yet to attack you or your LS, I'm only pointing out inconsistencies in your argument. I haven't done anything you haven't allowed me to.

[Draylo]

I dunno, I just assumed so I guess.

It doesn't matter if he didn't say it before, those NMs are just few of the ones I can think of that attack fast. If there is 0 reason to use shadows on them, what the hell else do you possibly need shadows for then? It's a pretty false statement because I doubt a BLU/NIN will survive vs those NMs not utilizing shadows on /nin and eating all that dmg and having the WHM spam heal them.

[jimbobsonofgod]

To me it's, 10% delay reduction + casting shadow downtime/fast cast gear vs counter damage/60% counter to reduce overall dmg taken Only when I'm tanking mobs and have 0 defense against taking damage when I'm not. As well as casting occultation when needed which is when people who are casting shadows cast them.

That's what the argument sounds like to me.

And I am not in the same LS as those guys.

I'm only pointing out inconsistencies in your argument. I haven't done anything you haven't allowed me to.

I'm in this guy's boat!

[Yugl]

For example, only thing I have had to use Occultation on while /mnk due to a TP move was Hedjedjet due to three Death Scissors in a row.

I was thinking about Physical AOE TP moves when I made that statement. Those are the type Occultation wipes against, but Utsusemi does not.

[Draylo]

To me it's, 10% delay reduction + casting shadow downtime/fast cast gear vs counter damage/60% counter to reduce overall dmg taken Only when I'm tanking mobs and have 0 defense against taking damage when I'm not. As well as casting occultation when needed which is when people who are casting shadows cast them.

Every fight I am in, I tank. Normally low manning things (in the past mostly since blu had two procs, now I mainly thf) BLU/MNK + WHM + BLM. If you never tank (I rarely find myself in these situations, even when with more people for something like empy farming) then yeah I could see /nin being more beneficial with DW3 due to not having counter damage.

Second part - I said only cast occultation for lethal TP moves, you seem to skim over this part for the 3rd time. I don't cast Occultation when I am fighting something that attacks fast w/o lethal tp moves, like Bennu. This means you are telling me you don't cast shadows at all fighting something like that and I call bullshit.

[Draylo]

I was thinking about Physical AOE TP moves when I made that statement. Those are the type Occultation wipes against, but Utsusemi does not.

I see, which TP moves would be lethal than? This would mean they are also lethal to a MNK as well if they can one shot. A good WHM can easily heal a large majority of severely damaging tp moves that can't one shot. I don't know of any AOE tp moves that fit that bill.

[jimbobsonofgod]

This means you are telling me you don't cast shadows at all fighting something like that and I call bullshit.

I don't cast shadows, when i'm not taking damage. whats the fucking point? I cast shadows like you cast occultation, when you're about to eat massive damage. I also don't try and tank when i can help it.

I am not skimming over what you have posted, you apparently aren't seeing my point.

[Draylo]

Obviously it is only if you are tanking. Maybe it's different for you but I don't play a backline job with BLU. I am always tanking because I am usually the only one on the mob with a WHM, if another DD is on it or two I still take hate either from dmg or hate cap. Have you never low manned?

[Mercilessturtle]

Mostly a personal battle, notice the opposition is the people who are in the same LS and dislike me.

Jimbob isn't even on the same server, much less in the same ls. I don't dislike you, and I am not even really "the opposition". I don't give a shit what a blu subs, they cast their grellow spell and everyone is happy. I simply pointed out that hasso is entirely adequate defense for a whm to not run out of mp on the joke NMs you mentioned.

[Yugl]

I see, which TP moves would be lethal than? This would mean they are also lethal to a MNK as well if they can one shot. A good WHM can easily heal a large majority of severely damaging tp moves that can't one shot. I don't know of any AOE tp moves that fit that bill.

Azdaja was the mob that came to mind when I said that, but it really doesn't matter since the statement remains true regardless of the mob. AoE Physical TP moves undermine the utility of MNK no matter which mob you speak of (preposition). Whether that makes a difference in the choice of sub will depend on other factors, but whenever you give the sub MNK slogan, you have a tendency to ignore the benefits of sub NIN and the fallacies of sub MNK as if stating the benefits of a sub are all that matter. You also neglect to mention that if melee is your predominant mode of damage, you can use points towards counter. If you're using GH, you gain 20% counter rate with sub NIN. This reduces the improvement from 60% counter to 33% counter.

[Draylo]

Azdaja was the mob that came to mind when I said that, but it really doesn't matter since the statement remains true regardless of the mob. AoE Physical TP moves undermine the utility of MNK no matter which mob you speak of (preposition). Whether that makes a difference in the choice of sub will depend on other factors, but whenever you give the sub MNK slogan, you have a tendency to ignore the benefits of sub NIN and the fallacies of sub MNK as if stating the benefits of a sub are all that matter. You also neglect to mention that if melee is your predominant mode of damage, you can use points towards counter. If you're using GH, you gain 20% counter rate with sub NIN. This reduces the improvement from 60% counter to 33% counter.

Forgot about him, aside from him there really isn't much else. If the AOE doesn't one shot, how do AOE tp moves undermine /mnk? The main defensive edge is against regular attacks, mainly fast attacking mobs. Where are you getting 60% to 33%? 10% GH, 10% trait = 20% vs counterstance+trait+GH= 60%. Setting trait also means you are using 7 set points, /mnk only needs 3 extra for Blazing bound over what /nin normally uses.

[Nightfyre]

Does the SpellTargetDistance rule in the includes.xml work with increasing mob size, or does it stay constant?

I was talking to someone recently who claimed that their recasts were oddly high when casting Occultation with Fast Cast trait from spells + Isador. I did some testing and verified their results. Further testing using each separately led to the tentative conclusion that they provide no more than 5% recast reduction in combination and 2-3% separately, suggesting that each is 5% Fast Cast.

Disappointment with Isador aside, I thought Fast Cast I was 10% Fast Cast? I synced WHM/RDM down to 30 and casted Reraise and got a value in line with 5% recast reduction so all I can think is that BLU Fast Cast is inferior to Fast Cast from subjob, but that's a first as far as I know. Would appreciate some verification/disproval of my results :\