Blue Mage: Best thread ever

[Atoreis]

Nothing more annoying than think they know it all Buttinski in my book its a double edge sword and it's easy to fall on it. Basically people develop play-styles and to be honest as long as they aren't doing retarded shit or last on the parse for the most part its on them and okay by me. Those that want to learn will ask and seek helpful advice the difference between heals is tiny in the grand scheme of playing actually playing the job well. Normally once a another blu sees what you can do they will ask and you don't have to ask them at all about it. Its pretty much lead by example in my book....

You met a lot better and more organized ppl then I. Don't get me wrong my reactions are different for details like Embrace vs Fruit, more annoying full af3+2 ( Because it's AF3+2 yo! It must be best to use full set! ) on something like SAM and most annoying fundamental things like staying BRD in AoE range after singing ( we had one like that in salvage he was terrible lol. Was staying close to every frog in ZR and died every single time... damn moron )

[fantasticdan]

I used p. embrace like 90% of the time inside abyssea since the mp efficiency was irrelevant, and the like 2-3s extra cd after haste/fastcast rarely mattered either. If I was mainhealing or something I set both.

EDIT: I always used ja0wait, so I didn't notice the animation lock.

[Sylvrdragon]

Really, the main reasons I use Fruit over Embrace are the Animation lock and the extra set point. The shorter recast and lower MP cost have saved my ass a couple times, but they're really secondary to the other reasons.

[Kaslo]

Extra set point + recast are the reasons I use Fruit. But shit is situational and such.

[dasva]

You met a lot better and more organized ppl then I. Don't get me wrong my reactions are different for details like Embrace vs Fruit, more annoying full af3+2 ( Because it's AF3+2 yo! It must be best to use full set! ) on something like SAM and most annoying fundamental things like staying BRD in AoE range after singing ( we had one like that in salvage he was terrible lol. Was staying close to every frog in ZR and died every single time... damn moron )

When he actually followed anyone at all you mean lol

[dasva]

Really, the main reasons I use Fruit over Embrace are the Animation lock and the extra set point. The shorter recast and lower MP cost have saved my ass a couple times, but they're really secondary to the other reasons.

I'm curious how the shorter recast or mp efficiency have saved peoples lives. I mean gotta figure most the time we are talking about /nin self healing. No healing magic skill limited or no cure potency. So even with say 150 mnd and 100 vit which I figure is an average build outside of abyssea. Heck would actually still need some kind of build inside to get that. Fruit is only pushing 485 while embrace is hitting 585.

So let's assume you got say 25% recast and only 25% recast reduction in your cure set. So 2 fruits would take about 9.7 sec while 2 embraces would be 13.5.

So you got a 3.8 sec window to hit a rather small specific dmg range for fruit (between 585 and 970 more dmg than you have hp) to save you. But go a little outside those ranges (within 100 of what fruit would cure before 2nd one goes off or 200 before a 3rd one can) and embrace could save you too.

Now sure if you healing multiple people fruits advantages become a bit bigger.

As far as efficiency you are looking at 6.74 vs 5.52 hp cured/mp. Decent but not huge.

Also not looking at the fact that outside abyssea CDC dmg goes down a bit so sanguine blade is actually worth using assuming you make a set especially if you worrying about mp when CA isn't up. During new moon that could easily add another 100 dmg and 50 more hp cured.

Inside abyssea... we can run out?

[Mithroy]

I might not be looking far enough back but based on dats what was the speculation on the new blu spells?

[Tambor]

Sudden Lunge ignores shadows but damages the user. It does add stun though. Head Butt II?

Frozen Mist would easily be the best ice oriented nuke BLU has. Competition includes such gems as Frost Breath and Ice Break. The added terrorize would be icing and likely resisted on anything that matters anyway.

One of the BLU spells looks like the Dark Orb attack used by Gargouilles. That'd be a generic AOE dark damage spell, something also lacking in the nuke arsenal.

Heavy Strike looks like your typical physical spell.

Thunderbolt being AOE stun would simply be a Temporal Shift retread and BLU already has a potent thundaga spell in Charged Whisker. Heres to hoping it's a single target magical stun.

Water bomb would be an AOE water nuke and a step up on Maelstrom.

Harden Shell/Barrier Tusk are holdouts for Pro/Shell V. It'd be nice if one were Pro/Shell rolled into one and the other a Scherzo/Migawari type tool.

This what you were looking for?

[Mithroy]

This what you were looking for?

Thank you very much.

[Sylvrdragon]

I'm curious how the shorter recast or mp efficiency have saved peoples lives. I mean gotta figure most the time we are talking about /nin self healing. No healing magic skill limited or no cure potency. So even with say 150 mnd and 100 vit which I figure is an average build outside of abyssea. Heck would actually still need some kind of build inside to get that. Fruit is only pushing 485 while embrace is hitting 585.

So let's assume you got say 25% recast and only 25% recast reduction in your cure set. So 2 fruits would take about 9.7 sec while 2 embraces would be 13.5.

So you got a 3.8 sec window to hit a rather small specific dmg range for fruit (between 585 and 970 more dmg than you have hp) to save you. But go a little outside those ranges (within 100 of what fruit would cure before 2nd one goes off or 200 before a 3rd one can) and embrace could save you too.

Now sure if you healing multiple people fruits advantages become a bit bigger.

As far as efficiency you are looking at 6.74 vs 5.52 hp cured/mp. Decent but not huge.

Also not looking at the fact that outside abyssea CDC dmg goes down a bit so sanguine blade is actually worth using assuming you make a set especially if you worrying about mp when CA isn't up. During new moon that could easily add another 100 dmg and 50 more hp cured.

Inside abyssea... we can run out?

I misspoke somewhat. It wasn't the recast that saved me per se', but more so the cast time and shorter animation lock. I was in Eldieme[S] doing Campaign, and I was the only person in the zone. Boss comes around the corner and aggros me. Eventually, I end up kiting it around relying on it's constant TP moves and occasional spells to allow me to stay ahead. For a while, I was riding my Cure timer, then eventually I was depending on refresh ticks to allow me to get my next cure in. I lived just long enough to make it to a cloud of NPCs who eventually finished off the Boss. So yeah, MP Efficiency, lower cast time, lower MP cost, and lower animation lock all played a part in saving my ass.

Granted, this is only one rather irrelevant example, but it just shows that the shit CAN make a difference. As I said above, the Animation and Spell Point are the MAIN reasons I prefer it.

[Vegetatheprince]

Think white wind going to be a U.K. spell? I'm still trying to decide if that's a good thing or not. 0 set points vs. actually using it more than once every five min.

[dasva]

Hmmm never noticed this longer animation spell lock. Then again I had already switched to spellcast by the time I started using it so I don't get locked anyways

[Yugl]

I'm curious how the shorter recast or mp efficiency have saved peoples lives. I mean gotta figure most the time we are talking about /nin self healing. No healing magic skill limited or no cure potency. So even with say 150 mnd and 100 vit which I figure is an average build outside of abyssea. Heck would actually still need some kind of build inside to get that. Fruit is only pushing 485 while embrace is hitting 585.

So let's assume you got say 25% recast and only 25% recast reduction in your cure set. So 2 fruits would take about 9.7 sec while 2 embraces would be 13.5.

So you got a 3.8 sec window to hit a rather small specific dmg range for fruit (between 585 and 970 more dmg than you have hp) to save you. But go a little outside those ranges (within 100 of what fruit would cure before 2nd one goes off or 200 before a 3rd one can) and embrace could save you too.

Now sure if you healing multiple people fruits advantages become a bit bigger.

As far as efficiency you are looking at 6.74 vs 5.52 hp cured/mp. Decent but not huge.

Also not looking at the fact that outside abyssea CDC dmg goes down a bit so sanguine blade is actually worth using assuming you make a set especially if you worrying about mp when CA isn't up. During new moon that could easily add another 100 dmg and 50 more hp cured.

Inside abyssea... we can run out?

1. It may not be about wipe v win, but more so about being able to cure them to full faster in general. That allows you to resume DDing faster and prevents you from being locked from other essential functions like stunning.
2. Inside Abyssea, you have more HP to heal at an accelerated pace, so fruit triumphs again because the spell can restore HP quicker and this advantage increases the more cures you need to do.
3. That CDC's damage drops outside abyssea is irrelevant because *every* WS's damage drops outside abyssea. CDC can still hit roughly 2k on non-high tier VNM content and I doubt sanguine is going to beat that + the SC potential.

[dasva]

1. It may not be about wipe v win, but more so about being able to cure them to full faster in general. That allows you to resume DDing faster and prevents you from being locked from other essential functions like stunning.
2. Inside Abyssea, you have more HP to heal at an accelerated pace, so fruit triumphs again because the spell can restore HP quicker and this advantage increases the more cures you need to do.
3. That CDC's damage drops outside abyssea is irrelevant because *every* WS's damage drops outside abyssea. CDC can still hit roughly 2k on non-high tier VNM content and I doubt sanguine is going to beat that + the SC potential.

1. Well if you don't stop meleeing inbetween how long it takes to heal to full isn't the problem it's how long you spend not meleeing. You actually spend more time casting magic fruit for similar amount healed than you do embrace. Stunning is kinda goes both ways. Yeah you can get back to just watching it sooner on the other hand while you are curing up alot more of your time is spent curing giving you less chances to stun while curing.

2. You're really just arguing the same thing but setting a bigger scale so See 1 as well as the wipe vs win argument. Though really if I was expecting to have to do massive curing on blu I'd be /rdm or /sch setting both probably. Idk guess any pt where there wasn't other healing in it I'd come as a rdm to begin with in the first

3. Well that argument was partly due to the shift in ws to spell dmg. But yes skillchaining with CDC will net more dmg than sanguine blade. However the increased dmg from spells makes using savage blade -> quadratic even better than CDC ->typhoon. But I was really referring to ws done inbetween CA recast.

And yes CDC by itself will almost always beat out sanguine blade if you are at least eatting att food by itself on almost anything out there though your CDC will do more after you embrace... However the real point of sanguine blade is not just it's decent consistent dmg but the fact you can rely on it for mp less instant cure. In situations where I'm not in too much danger letting my hp go down a bit I'll often plenilune right into a sanguine blade which being lol taru is pretty much a full heal outside . Or maybe not right away but try to time it based on how much dmg I'm taking and such that I could use the sanguine blade hp. Though tbh I rarely set any cure spell now on blu since I almost always got a whm following me around.


Regardless there are advantages and disadvantages to either. Often the same ones for both just having slightly different timing taking advantage from one and giving to the other. And saying your a bad blu for using plenilune is silly.

So on a semi related note since it has to do with blu and maintaining mp... how do you do different idle sets for meleeing and well not engaged. I'd like to crank in a bit more refresh while not engaged

[Atoreis]

. And saying your a bad blu for using plenilune is silly.

It's not like this fact makes them bad. It's just based on my experience that whenever I see BLU using Embrace I'm asking him few things and it turns to be a total noob 95% of the time.

[dasva]

It's not like this fact makes them bad. It's just based on my experience that whenever I see BLU using Embrace I'm asking him few things and it turns to be a total noob 95% of the time.

Probably lol. Then again it's so much easier telling whose a n00b these days since most of them don't ever gear change and have rather questionable choices in what gear they are full timing. Recently played with 2 tanks that had less haste than my blm uses to cast aspir and I don't have any nashira gear...

Or a couple of weeks ago we got a thf to tank and I came blu/rdm since no one else could sub something with dispel and I just ended up tanking and made the thf only come in for SA/TA since somehow he took more dmg than me and did almost no dmg... not even sure how that happened since it's not like I was using mdt/pdt/evasion just full out DD lol.

What I don't get is somehow these guys that clearly have no atmas have 1 set of gear for 1 to 2 jobs somehow take longer to get ready then people with multiple gear sets having to use porter moogles running more than 1 character around...

P.S Ato help me make ochain for my lvl 12 pld

[Yugl]

1. Well if you don't stop meleeing inbetween how long it takes to heal to full isn't the problem it's how long you spend not meleeing. You actually spend more time casting magic fruit for similar amount healed than you do embrace. Stunning is kinda goes both ways. Yeah you can get back to just watching it sooner on the other hand while you are curing up alot more of your time is spent curing giving you less chances to stun while curing.

You're actually safer being able to cure with fruit increments unless 100-200HP is really the difference between stopping your cures and continuing (Using the numbers someone posted earlier). The main concern, from what I hear, is the animation lock. With fruit, you can break up the cure cycle, which gives you better chances at stunning. Think of it as choosing an instant TP move v Bahamut's laser charge. You have a chance to stun at each interval.

2. You're really just arguing the same thing but setting a bigger scale so See 1 as well as the wipe vs win argument. Though really if I was expecting to have to do massive curing on blu I'd be /rdm or /sch setting both probably. Idk guess any pt where there wasn't other healing in it I'd come as a rdm to begin with in the first

Of course you would set both for main healing, which is why I'm specifically talking about the odd cases (i.e. Unplanned curinghood). The real problem with your earlier argument is that you assume bigger increments over time will outdo the pace of fruit. However, the numbers you posted earlier suggest that you can get 1-2 fruits within the recast difference between embrace and fruit since fruit is typically 2s recast (Maybe less if I bothered to make a better build). That means the extra 100HP cured has to match an extra 485HP cured.

3. Well that argument was partly due to the shift in ws to spell dmg. But yes skillchaining with CDC will net more dmg than sanguine blade. However the increased dmg from spells makes using savage blade -> quadratic even better than CDC ->typhoon. But I was really referring to ws done inbetween CA recast.

Huh? Using savage isn't using sanguine. I thought you argument was to use sanguine to save MP? I'll agree with that, but talk of "worthy" damage is baffling.

So on a semi related note since it has to do with blu and maintaining mp... how do you do different idle sets for meleeing and well not engaged. I'd like to crank in a bit more refresh while not engaged

Spellcast?

[dasva]

Animation lock is a moot point to people that aren't getting animation locked... for that matter you can cast ws ja etc decently before the animation finishes anyways even when you are "locked". Just can't do things like engage/disengage or move.

You exaggerate both to make fruit sound better and to make embrace sound worse as far as timing goes. Base fruit recast is 6 sec embrace is 10. How are you getting 2? And even if you did get fruit recast down to 2 that means embrace would be at 3.33 (I forget the current theory on how it rounds and such so just using that) with same gear/set. So forget 2 fruits how are you casting just 1 in 1.33 seconds? Is there like a good 40% fast cast gear I don't know about?

Was just saying that Savage quad is even better. But idk about you but I can typically get another ws inbetween CA recast. Though the dmg difference between say sanguine + CA spell with no skillchaining and then another DD spell or 2 using the mp you saved not having to cure yourself is probably similar. But yes if mp was really tight and you had to stick to purely defensive sanguine blade is an obvious choice.

Not sure what you mean there. Doing good sanguine blade dmg? Idk I typically do 1-1.2k on mobs neutral to it's dmg outside which is most things. Well that's without doing silly things like mori or sound blast or enervation etc. Though I do use typhoon a bit... so if that's up yeah a bit more. But that's kinda unreliable since can never really tell if it worked or be certain if it's worn yet

Yes different idle sets in spellcast for engaged/not engaged. Not sure how to rules that

[Yugl]

I'm using recast to tell me the time, and it doesn't make sense given that (I think) 50% is the recast cap, but that's what I get.

The extra magic fruit comes from your post:

So let's assume you got say 25% recast and only 25% recast reduction in your cure set. So 2 fruits would take about 9.7 sec while 2 embraces would be 13.5.

So you got a 3.8 sec window to hit a rather small specific dmg range for fruit (between 585 and 970 more dmg than you have hp) to save you. But go a little outside those ranges (within 100 of what fruit would cure before 2nd one goes off or 200 before a 3rd one can) and embrace could save you too.

Was just saying that Savage quad is even better. But idk about you but I can typically get another ws inbetween CA recast. Though the dmg difference between say sanguine + CA spell with no skillchaining and then another DD spell or 2 using the mp you saved not having to cure yourself is probably similar. Not sure what you mean there. Doing good sanguine blade dmg? Idk I typically do 1-1.2k on mobs neutral to it's dmg outside which is most things. Well that's without doing silly things like mori or sound blast or enervation etc. Though I do use typhoon a bit... so if that's up yeah a bit more.

Not sure I would opt for the reduced damage if solo. If not solo, I don't find myself curing as much, so the issue is irrelevant for the most part. If you add those buffs/debuffs, you're wasting MP/time, so I wouldn't even consider them.

Spellcast:

<var name="VARIDLE">1</var>

Make sets:

<set name="Idle-1">
<set name="Idle-2">

and so forth

Make a trigger to change VARIDLE to 1 through X

Your rule for equipping idle should then have

<equip set="Idle-$VARIDLE" />

[dasva]

I'm using recast to tell me the time, and it doesn't make sense given that (I think) 50% is the recast cap, but that's what I get.

The extra magic fruit comes from your post:




Not sure I would opt for the reduced damage if solo. If not solo, I don't find myself curing as much, so the issue is irrelevant for the most part. If you add those buffs/debuffs, you're wasting MP/time, so I wouldn't even consider them.

Spellcast:

<var name="VARIDLE">1</var>

Make sets:

<set name="Idle-1">
<set name="Idle-2">

and so forth

Make a trigger to change VARIDLE to 1 through X

Your rule for equipping idle should then have

<equip set="Idle-$VARIDLE" />

Ah I see I used 25% fastcast/-recast for my numbers and it seems you used something like 50% fastcast and -66% recast to get exactly 1 more fruit in. Use the same amounts of fast cast and -recast and you wont get those extra in. And if you do the math to get the same amount of curing in you actually spend more overall time casting/locked from actions.

Yeah those buffs outside of having already used typhoon are generally pointless which is why I don't use them... or even generally set them lol. And yeah not soloing I don't even set cure spells anymore anyways. As far as opting for less dmg... idk it's been so long since I've hurted for mp on blu I forget really. It was before I got sanguine blade.

Ok make a trigger how? Like when I try to do a certain spell/ja change variable? Whats the syntax on that? And I though there was a way to make it always go to a certain idle set when not engaged and another one when engaged on it's own...