Blue Mage: Best thread ever

[VZX01]

Barrier Tusk: 15% PDT that is multiplicative to current PDT
Phalanx: A static damage reduction dependent on Enhancing Skill

They are mutually exclusive.

Well they are different in execution, but

Phalanx overwrites Barrier Tusk, but Barrier Tusk cannot overwrite Phalanx. (This is with no enhancing skill+)

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They occupy the same slot, meaning they are the "same kind" of buff. So Phalanx and Barrier tusk can't be up at the same time. Hence, I'm questioning how it's going to be the replacement for Phalanx. It would be a buff than Phalanx when you're taking 100 damage (after PDT factored in), wouldn't it?

If you want to be so nitpicking then I would say NO statement isnt true because it wont REPLACE phalanx because both effects stack. EDIT oh wait they dont. Still its like saying that Umbra cape can replace phalanx at some damage range. It's just stupid...

Barrier Tusk and phalanx have 2 different uses. Stop being stubborn.

Now I really just taking you were just mocking me on last page because I didn't have any memory Proteschar saying the stackability with Phalanx. You didn't even remember it doesn't stack.

[Yugl]

(1-PDT)*(0.85) = DMG taken

[1-(1-PDT)*(0.85)] = [1-(0.85-{PDT*0.85})] = DMG Mitigated

Phalanx under 300 Skill = ([EnhancingSkill/10]-2) = DMG Mitigated

Compare to see when one overtakes the other.

[Sylvrdragon]

I feel fairly confident in saying that Barrier Tusk will likely almost never see any use. One minute duration for 41 MP and 3 set points is just not practical- especially when you consider that it's only 7.5% -DT if you stack it with capped MDT/PDT- Which you SHOULD be using if you're fighting something for which you would even consider using Barrier Tusk in the first place.

In other words, when you need it, it sucks; When you don't need it, it's useless.

[VZX01]

7.5% damage taken is pushing it over the cap. Meaning that only happens if you're already at capped PDT/MDT-. 57.5% damage taken is better than 50% damage taken, no?

Conversely, you can just equip 41%/42% DT- gear, cast barrier tusk, and you'll get almost similar effect as if you capped PDT/MDT-.

If we talk about MP inefficiency, Occultation, in contrast, should last 3 minutes 18~19 seconds (138/41MP * 1 minute duration), but from my experience on continuous fighting, the shadows always get eaten all before 3 minutes timer.
Probably... if we take 6 seconds cast time into account, we can argue it's impractical to cast it when you have the mob attention bound to you.

[Yugl]

I must have misread Harden Shell's duration for Barrier Tusk because that stinks. If the cast time is quick, then I could see it having MDT purposes (Probably pair with MDT macro if using spellcast).

[Nightfyre]

especially when you consider that it's only 7.5% -DT if you stack it with capped MDT/PDT-

Uh, no. It's still 15% less damage taken overall. 7.5/50=0.15

[Ladydeathstrike]

might have a use when used in conjuction w/ perfect defense depending how they stack?
have blu diffuse barrier tusk once pd starts to decay

[Prothescar]

I must have misread Harden Shell's duration for Barrier Tusk because that stinks. If the cast time is quick, then I could see it having MDT purposes (Probably pair with MDT macro if using spellcast).

Takes about 6 seconds to cast before fast cast.

[Atoreis]

Well they are different in execution, but

They occupy the same slot, meaning they are the "same kind" of buff. So Phalanx and Barrier tusk can't be up at the same time. Hence, I'm questioning how it's going to be the replacement for Phalanx. It would be a buff than Phalanx when you're taking 100 damage (after PDT factored in), wouldn't it?


Now I really just taking you were just mocking me on last page because I didn't have any memory Proteschar saying the stackability with Phalanx. You didn't even remember it doesn't stack.

I didnt because they have completely different purpose. Barrier tusk should be cast incase of big damage comming soon ( like you know it will be AF used soon or mob will go into some rage with few AoE or some TP move used on various % ) Phalanx on blu/rdm is used to reduce big part of damage when fighting with low damaging mobs. Talking about when one can replace another is pure math with no practical use.

[dasva]

Also this wouldn't be the first time different buffs overrode each other. So that argument is kinda invalid. And plenty that do do the same thing but maybe in different amounts do stack

[mrmusicmr]

yup, the argument makes no sense,.

[Kegsay]

The argument between Phalanx vs Barrier Tusk is well-founded, because they function differently and both cannot be up at once. Here's a pretty diagram:

Assumptions: No PDT/MDT, Lv45 /RDM skill
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...mgmitigate.jpg

So realistically, Phalanx is still king for most scenarios, except for say HNM tanking where damage is consistently high.

You can expand this information and say "well what if /RDM was 49?" which would up the threshold of the crossover. But bear in mind you use Phalanx or Tusk to mitigate damage, and whilst Phalanx is superior (and continues to be so as the cap rises) for lower level damage, the difference isn't huge compared to the more extreme attacks where tusk clearly mitigates lots of damage, plus you must sacrifice your sub rather than going for another mitigating sub, /NIN.

[Atoreis]

The argument between Phalanx vs Barrier Tusk is well-founded.

No it's not.

Tusk is for big damage
Phalanx is for small damage

You should never be on /rdm when you want/need to use Tusk.

Compering those two is pure math with no practical use.
You can do it but dilemma which to cast will never appear in the game.

[VZX01]

^ Yes, basically that's the direction I want the discussion to go.

Now, considering Barrier Tusk could be the replacement of /RDM phalanx, especially when the enemy you fight hits hard (>100 after the damage taken- gear), wouldn't /NIN become the choice again for some of the stuff you'd want to tank with /RDM (Or people don't use /RDM for blood tanking at all? CMIIW for I don't have RDM sub)

[Atoreis]

^ Yes, basically that's the direction I want the discussion to go.

Now, considering Barrier Tusk could be the replacement of /RDM phalanx, especially when the enemy you fight hits hard (>100 after the damage taken- gear), wouldn't /NIN become the choice again for some of the stuff you'd want to tank with /RDM (Or people don't use /RDM for blood tanking at all? CMIIW for I don't have RDM sub)

You not having /rdm sub after 1 year of abyssea is pretty much a fail.

One last time. There is no such dilemma because if the mob hits hard you wont ever tank it on /rdm unless you are stupid. /rdm tanking is only for fast and weak hitting mobs for which Tusk wont do shit. If you can't understand it then I give up.

[Kegsay]

But you're over-generalising that monsters will either hit very hard or hit pitifully weak. This is hardly ever the case when TP moves/spells deal high damage and melee hits are weak(ish). In such circumstances, the decision between phalanx/tusk is relevant.

You can herpderp and say "WELL DUH PHALANX FOR SMALL, TUSK FOR LARGE" but you won't be utilising your damage mitigation options to their fullest by instantly disregarding options like this.

[VZX01]

You not having /rdm sub after 1 year of abyssea is pretty much a fail.

Well, thank you very much. It has not even been 3 months I've returned to the game since early 2009.

And thank you for letting me know that I won't be needing /RDM for any circumstances I use my BLU for.

[Yugl]

Takes about 6 seconds to cast before fast cast.

Ya, its worthless then.

I don't get your graph Kegsay. Phalanx is going to be a static amount of damage reduced, so whether you take 20 DMG or 1000 DMG, at 132 skill, you'll always mitigate 11DMG. That's the reason why it's so beastly when taking minimal damage.

[Atoreis]

The graph itself is good but there is no point in making it because a) it has no purpose b) You almost never gonna use Tusk w/o MDT/PDT

@VZX RDM is one of the best subjobs for BLU just not for tanking high damaging mobs when Tusk will be helpful.

[VZX01]

Ya, its worthless then.

I don't get your graph Kegsay. Phalanx is going to be a static amount of damage reduced, so whether you take 20 DMG or 1000 DMG, at 132 skill, you'll always mitigate 11DMG. That's the reason why it's so beastly when taking minimal damage.

His Y axis should label "Damage Taken after phalanx/barrier tusk reduction"

But anyway... Considering +33 Enhancing magic skill and 144 (non-merited) enhancing magic skill by lv49, the best we can get is 15 damage reduction....
And well, the cut off point for this is 100 damage after considering damage taken. Any damage lower than 100, phalanx will win; Any damage higher than 100, barrier tusk will win.
But considering one scenario where phalanx would have nullify the damage (damage taken=15 after subtracted from gear), barrier tusk still reduce the damage to 12~13 points. I personally don't call that as completely losing at all.