Blue Mage: Best thread ever

[Darkmagi]

My tp/ws sets for blu are nearly optimal, I'd be glad to test this against the best DDs I know. I'm fairly certain a good blu won't be providing nearly as much damage as you think they will in an optimal situation.

[Prothescar]

Go try it then and prepare to be amazed. Underselling what a good BLU can do next to a good "heavy" DD is annoying. I go against Apocalypse DRKs and Ukon warriors in my LS daily, I'm pretty sure I have enough experience in the field to justify my claims.

I will say though, that if you're going in to optimal conditions and are an non-optimal BLU, you'll be proving nothing aside from your own ineptitude.

[jimbobsonofgod]

A BLU that's DDing isn't proccing any slower.

That is not correct, A blu that isn't setting traits and not setting DD spells will have a greater chance to not have to reset spells to get a proc. And it makes me fucking weep every time I see a blu that will hear its a blu proc, stop whatever they were doing and reset their spells every fucking time. Because I know exactly what they are doing . Setting all DD/Trait spells leaving almost 0 for proc, hear its blu proc, drop the last 4 spells on their list and repeating.

I've VW fights end in less time then it takes for some blus to reset/set their spells.
Fires spit/ Mind Blast/cold wave/sand spray/eyes on me/death ray/actinic burst/acrid stream/cursed sphere/blitzstrahl/magnetite cloud/sandspin/hecatomb wave/mysterious light/ice break/frost breath/blank gaze/thermal pulset/blast bomb
Is usually what I set> Put fire spit and Mind blast at the top its 9 points covers most spell reset elements except for fire.

[Draylo]

That is not correct, A blu that isn't setting traits and not setting DD spells will have a greater chance to not have to reset spells to get a proc. And it makes me fucking weep every time I see a blu that will hear its a blu proc, stop whatever they were doing and reset their spells every fucking time. Because I know exactly what they are doing . Setting all DD/Trait spells leaving almost 0 for proc, hear its blu proc, drop the last 4 spells on their list and repeating.

I've VW fights end in less time then it takes for some blus to reset/set their spells.

I'm sure you were capped lights by that time too, right chief?

[Yugl]

If you have two BLUs, at least one of them can have DA+DW set (Not DW2+ unfortunately) without sacrificing spells. Your point is anecdotal and could generalize to most BLUs though.

[Prothescar]

Setting DD traits affords you enough space for 1.5-2 elements. Removing three of those crucial DD traits affords room for 3-4. Removing all DD traits leaves room for 5-6 depending on which elements you set. If you're creative you can have 1-3 spells of several or all elements with all DD traits set, thus affording a decent chance at proccing any element at any given time.

That greater chance to have an ability to proc is negated every time it's one of those 2~4 elements that you won't have set. If you're killing the NM fast enough that the proc that the BLU wasn't able to get out in time wasn't put into play, then it clearly wasn't crucial enough to stop you from killing the NM. It's an exponential increase in availability of procs to be sure, but when the chance is already loaded against you, the increase is slim.

I do hope your Tizona and Almace go to better use than just hanging on your hip being showpieces, though. A shame to waste weapons like those. Just goes to show that good gear is a horrible way to measure someone's worth at a job.

[Byrthnoth]

I'm sure you were capped lights by that time too, right chief?

Which is pretty much what I said.

BLU, even if you assume all the traits, doesn't have a melee or WS advantage over a job like Monk, Dragoon, Dark Knight, Warrior, etc. You are choosing to bring the BLU because he is a good player and you know he has capped Atmacites/whatever, which is worth more than the differences in potential damage between the jobs, not because BLU is inherently a good DD.

[Prothescar]

If you're in a linkshell with nothing but domineering WARs, SAMs, DRKs, and MNKs, you likely don't have anyone who gives a shit about BLU to begin with. Unfortunate that you had to add the last part though, are you implying that it's a bad DD unless circumstances land favorably?

[Yugl]

It's an inferior one, yes, and that is all that matters (I assume that is what Byrthnoth means). Talk of 'absolutes' (read: nominal) when discussing DD potential is a moot and ridiculous point.

[Prothescar]

Ugh, forget it. It's like talking to brick walls, except brick walls are still good for hanging up posters and stopping cars from destroying my favorite bar. I've said it before, but this time I'll just stick to it. Continue believing what you will, applying thought only to stigmas that existed previous to the past... 4 or 5 months or so. I'll continue performing my job proficiently and contributing more to my group than the guy who sits with the BLMs casting haste on the DD who's likely already hasted and waiting for the 1 in 10 chance, thereabouts, of a BLU proc surfacing for a crucial proc. Odds are it will extend the longevity of BLU being able to do that, too, since there won't be as many shitheads running around so that SE catches notice and decides to nerf something.

Inferior clearly means it isn't worth anything, though.

[Draylo]

Yugl constantly editing his posts, should think before you post. It is most certainly not an "inferior" DD.

[Yugl]

Inferior clearly means it isn't worth anything, though.

You're the only one reaching this conclusion. I'm glad you now understand that BLU is an inferior DD though.

LolDraylo? I only edited in the parenthesis portion. And it certainly is.

[Byrthnoth]

Put up some math showing how BLU compares to a MNK. Napkin math has Monk destroying them in every case even giving every assumption in BLU's favor.

[Prothescar]

You're the only one reaching this conclusion. I'm glad you now understand that BLU is an inferior DD though.

LolDraylo? I only edited in the parenthesis portion. And it certainly is.

I am? I don't recall being the one to say that BLU isn't worth cures and support because it's a negligible form of DD. I've not claimed that BLU is a superior DD to WAR, SAM, etc., simply that it can stand next to and perform admirably within a reasonable (which was later revised) percentile of their damage output. The god complex of the standard "heavy DDs" implying that a BLU isn't worth having on the front lines is what I'm arguing, on top of the stupid argument of "if they're DDing theyre slowing procs hurrrrrr".

[jimbobsonofgod]

I'll continue performing my job proficiently and contributing more to my group than the guy who sits with the BLMs casting haste on the DD who's likely already hasted and waiting for the 1 in 10 chance, thereabouts, of a BLU proc surfacing for a crucial proc.

Again people are inviting blus to proc and once you take away the need for blus to proc you'll be taking away the need for blus to be in VW parties in the first place. VW around my server usually goes, 1 "proc'n" blu or 2 "melee" blus to cover procs. Obviously having 1 blu focus on procs instead of 2 means you can swap in another "DD" in its place, but lately i've seen a growing pattern of people just skipping jobs like rdm blu smn for more of a zerg style.
And as for my tizona and almace, total show peices , never use them outside of jeuno, unless i'm standing around another town. Hope that makes you happy.

[Prothescar]

That's the blanket mentality of players that you're only fostering with the kind of argument being raised in this very thread. The situation will not improve with this sort of support. Instead, good BLUs such as myself, Draylo, and a couple other select individuals that I know will continue to prove ourselves to our friends, linkshells, and server as a whole, and continue to play the job to its fullest. I have no issues bringing my BLU to any voidwatch event, and I do not plan on it becoming an issue in the future.

[Yugl]

I am? I don't recall being the one to say that BLU isn't worth cures and support because it's a negligible form of DD.

In the time between your response to Jimsbobsomethin'somethin' and your meltdown post, in which you sarcastically make that remark, there have been only two remarks on the issue. Both posts have only claimed that BLU's damage potential is inferior until you create circumstances that favor the BLU (i.e. gimp competitors). Somewhere and somehow, you've managed to pull "is worth nothing because of inferiority" out of that. None of our posts imply that. I also back Byrthnoth's request for some numbers if you oppose our response.

[Prothescar]

Uh, no, I've already received a couple of direct responses to my posts implying that BLU is better off to sit on the sideline and wait for BLU procs "because thats all we want you for". Nice try, though. Turning the tables doesn't work when the table wasn't facing me to begin with.

And I've already annulled the need for math, as I have already specified that I'm not trying to say BLU is a superior DD to MNK. Now you're just stirring the shit barrel for no reason.

[Byrthnoth]

There are a limited number of buffers because you need proc jobs. Justify giving them to BLU instead of another DD without using the reasoning I used earlier.

[Prothescar]

Hate to be cliche but I'll just use the same ammunition that was used back at the dawn of the Ukko's Fury nerf: it doesn't have to be optimal as long as it's sufficient. If you believe that BLU can be a sufficient DD to get the job done, you wouldn't be so up in arms over it to begin with...