Blue Mage: Best thread ever

[Yugl]

I am in the position to claim that you have bias, as you are absolutely taking sides in this situation. I don't care about your miniscule control over moderation powers either, as my posts have broken no rules. Your stubbornness and inability to comprehend my argument are astounding, and quite frankly, offensive.

I've provided more factual evidence and argument to this conversation than all of you combined, particularly yourself who has contributed 0 to it at all aside from criticism of my claims based on no grounds.

Again with the ad hominems. And for what reason? All I've said is that you cannot prove subjective stances, you cannot control people, and you cannot claim that I have a bias (Hint: I melee on BLU). Which of these is an inability to comprehend your argument? Which of these is stubbornness? You've provided facts and falsities. Unfortunately, you fail to grasp what it means for subjectivity to be impossible to prove. As my MOD status, it should be known that the only person I've infractioned is someone who necrobumped in the advanced section. Otherwise, I limit myself to the math section. Many can attest to the fact that I don't reign terror in that section as well. That you bring up my status supports the claim that you're abstaining from the point of discussion and focusing on personal attacks. That is a consequence of your ego and demand that everyone become your sheep.

[Vriska]

By the way, I'm using your numbers, but they're not correct. In my DD setup I can fit two full elements in addition to my trait spells, so... yeah, I have 25%, not 18.75%. Your argument's relevancy diminishes rapidly the more it's examined, it seems.

[EjinCaitsith]

And your argument is only relevant 8.5% of the time, due to the number of procs, which is the basic point of OUR argument.

In addition to that, 56.25% of the time, by your numbers, the two hypothetical BLUs will take the exact same amount of time to proc (either by the DD BLU having the right proc set, or the proc BLU not having it set). So your argument further diminishes to being relevant 43.75% of 8.5% of the time, or 3.7% of the time. One in 27 fights.

So all a DD BLU has to do is speed a fight up by enough to save 95 seconds (your numbers) across 27 fights. Let's call it four seconds. Doesn't seem so unreasonable.

By this logic, why not just replace the BLU with a better "heavy" DD and shave even more time off every fight.

[Prothescar]

Again with the ad hominems. And for what reason? All I've said is that you cannot prove subjective stances, you cannot control people, and you cannot claim that I have a bias (Hint: I melee on BLU). Which of these is an inability to comprehend your argument? Which of these is stubbornness? You've provided facts and falsities. Unfortunately, you fail to grasp what it means for subjectivity to be impossible to prove. As my MOD status, it should be known that the only person I've infractioned is someone who necrobumped in the advanced section. Otherwise, I limit myself to the math section. Many can attest to the fact that I don't reign terror in that section as well. That you bring up my status supports the claim that you're abstaining from the point of discussion and focusing on personal attacks. That is a consequence of your ego and demand that everyone become your sheep.

Yes I'm totally demanding people to become my sheep rather than see simple logic that a third grader would be able to math out. You've been condescending since you've started your little crusade on my "ad hominem", don't try to play with me.

By this logic, why not just replace the BLU with a better "heavy" DD and shave even more time off every fight.

Why don't you just do that so that you can stop arguing it and leave those of us with common sense to continue functioning at our best. Your ideal of a BLU with more procs set and a BLU with 1-2 proc elements set is horribly askew. Your opinion to any BLU worth their salt is not going to be taken with any relevancy, but mostly the same scrutiny that you're facing now.

[Vriska]

By this logic, why not just replace the BLU with a better "heavy" DD and shave even more time off every fight.

Hell let's just not accept any jobs to LSes that aren't WAR BLM COR BRD or MNK.
COR BRD WAR WAR WAR WAR x2
BLM BLM BLM BLM WHM WHM
is obviously the optimal party setup for every situation in the game, why the hell did they add all those useless jobs.

It was sarcasm but I'm really worried that might actually be the way the game goes.

[Yugl]

Yes I'm totally demanding people to become my sheep rather than see simple logic that a third grader would be able to math out. You've been condescending since you've started your little crusade on my "ad hominem", don't try to play with me.

Each time you claim to have proven your argument, you prove that you fail to grasp the notion of subjectivity and lie. If calling you out for substituting arguments with ad hominems is condescending, then you reinforce the notion that you want sheep, not discussion. It's quite problematic when your temper causes you to flail who agree upon the outcome (Meleeing) but disagree on the details. Perhaps you need counseling.

[Prothescar]

Each time you claim to have proven your argument, you prove that you fail to grasp the notion of subjectivity and lie. If calling you out for substituting arguments with ad hominems is condescending, then you reinforce the notion that you want sheep, not discussion.

It isn't subjectivity, it's complete fact, your failure to see that is astounding. It's literally more effective and efficient to subscribe to the ideals that Vriska and I are advocating, there is no other way about it. It isn't subjective, it's fact. How hard must I hammer it in before you grasp this?

By what possible definition of subjectivity and dishonesty are you attempting to facilitate my argument as subjective and a lie?

[Nightfyre]

Holy fuck. Prothescar. Enough.

[Zirael]

What you're arguing is that it's acceptable to make the ally wait to get BLU procs. You'll have a 18.75% chance that you have the proc set when setting DD traits, while a BLU setting all procs will have a 62.5% chance to proc. That's a 43.75% increase, and that's what we're arguing about.

From the second the monster is popped, there will be at least a 10-20 second wait to find all possible procs, sure you could get the hint 1/1, but realistically it will take 15 seconds to find it. Then you have to set the spells, which will take at least 10sec. Then there is the 60 second wait. Lastly, you have to cast the spells can proc them, which could take anywhere from 3 seconds to 30 seconds, so we can say 10 to be fair. That's 95 seconds from the start of the fight until your DD blu is able to proc. Which is time you will waste 81.25% of the time. A BLU setting maximum procs from the start only wastes this time 37.5% of the time.

This is the basic point of my argument. You're trying to justify BLU DD to shave mere seconds off a fight, while at the same time saying "Wait guys, don't kill, I'm waiting for spells to change."

My BLU is totally NQ yet I get asked to go VW on it quite often. I don't get asked to come BLU to do damage, I (or most of BLUs) get invited to proc. Otherwise another WAR SAM MNK RNG or COR could take that spot and kill as fast or even faster, right?
Awhile ago I made an Uptala shout and had this BLU in full DD mode. He was boasting how he's topping up the parse, I was getting tells from people pissed about BLU spells remain unprocced for the whole of that 5-7min fights. One thing is you can easy top parse in random shout, other thing is, you're topping parse because other people actually do their job and work on their procs when their turn is up.
Doing damage is nice, but that's not why I get invited to VW. Personally I think Tourbillion and restoring one or all temps as soon as possible is why I'm there in the first place. Otherwise, again, why not bring another WAR instead?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to take sides here, it's just my point of view. BLU can be played in many ways, depending on personal preferences. It's just, in case of VW, it's so damn frustratingly broken with proc spell setting/resetting hindering your DPS

[Prothescar]

My BLU is totally NQ yet I get asked to go VW on it quite often. I don't get asked to come BLU to do damage, I (or most of BLUs) get invited to proc. Otherwise another WAR SAM MNK RNG or COR could take that spot and kill as fast or even faster, right?
Awhile ago I made an Uptala shout and had this BLU in full DD mode. He was boasting how he's topping up the parse, I was getting tells from people pissed about BLU spells remain unprocced for the whole of that 5-7min fights. One thing is you can easy top parse in random shout, other thing is, you're topping parse because other people actually do their job and work on their procs when their turn is up.
Doing damage is nice, but that's not why I get invited to VW. Personally I think Tourbillion and restoring one or all temps as soon as possible is why I'm there in the first place. Otherwise, again, why not bring another WAR instead?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to take sides here, it's just my point of view. BLU can be played in many ways, depending on personal preferences. It's just, in case of VW, it's so damn frustratingly broken with proc spell setting/resetting hindering your DPS

*shrug* anecdotal evidence sir. You can't really judge the job's role by one individual's inability to do their job. I see where you're coming from, but that's the same thing as myself saying "I once had this WHM who let my tank die, WHM is a horrible healer". While it is indeed frustrating to try to overcome the limitations of the blue magic system, it isn't possible to transcend those limitations completely, and what you can avoid is usually not worth the cost.

[doctorugh]

Dear SE,

Thank you for the proc/stagger system. I cant see that it has failed in any way; especially with the blue mage community. I'm excited to see what you will create next.

Sincerely,
Doctorugh (Cerebrus)

[dasva]

Hey at least it's better than bst procs... seroiusly wtf SE

[ronin sparthos]

Hey at least it's better than bst procs... seroiusly wtf SE

The fiend seems extremely vulnerable to leech family abilities.

Sparthosx uses Call Beast
Pil readies Flank Opening
FatsoFargann was defeated by Pil

BANARANCE.

[Koyangi]

Holy shit I laughed way too hard at that.

[Churchill]

I don't have a problem only setting 4 spells and the rest DD, if it's a fight where procs matter I set proc spells and wait, 95% of the other fights I go with DD spells.

Sorry, sec.

WHAT THE FUCK WHY CAN YOU NOT SEE WHAT LIES CLEARLY BEFORE YOUR FACES!?? BLUE MAGE CLEARLY DEFINES THE VISCERAL AND TRUE MEANING OF THE WORD...D...P...S...

Also, from the AH thread: Still not buying good BLU outparsing a good MNK, SAM, DRK, etc. Your argument was that it would best all but WAR, and sometimes not SAM or DRK. Easily MNK though.

[Prothescar]

I never said any of that, but ok. What I did say was that BLU can stand next to them admirably, and did say that it could beat MNK. I appreciate the enthusiasm however.

[Vathris]

I quite enjoy DDing in VW, cause raping face while using fanatics and when the mob is frozen is quite fun <.<

But to somewhat contribute...

There will be 2 cases for VW, when you have 1 blu in the alliance, and when you have 2:

With only one blu, id rather set all the proc spells i can and go /blm and spam T1s for messages.

But when you have 2, i go /war and all I need to do is tell the other blu to set Earth, Thunder, Wind and Light (60 points), and you get Fire, Water, Ice and Darkness, so this means that after all your dd traits are set, you have enough points left over for setting all of darkness, ice and half of the water ones (cause acrid stream is a dd trait spell and a proc), so in my case cuts the chance to having to reset my spells only if its Fire or 2 of the water spells i didnt set, cutting the chance of not having a proc to 6/15.

Edit: Apologies <.< but its 6/15, cause darkness only has 3 spells.

[Imoq]

Bleh, I just leveled BLU and came to this thread to "learn" some advanced stuff about it, or at least to read interesting discussions regarding the job!

So far, from reading 10? 12? last pages I just learned that some wolves are so stubborn that it gave me a bad headache.

I'll come back to this thread when people actually discuss BLU stuff, I guess.

[dasva]

So Queasyshroom great for testing tp bonus and such because duration is based soley on tp... so what is the formula?

[Prothescar]

Roughly 3.3 seconds per point of TP, will have to double check my notes though if I can find them.