Blue Mage: Best thread ever

[Nightfyre]

Issues I have: There's a possibility that these merits don't affect ranged attacks, however the fact that I was able to cap attack 5 points earlier, or at least get very convincingly close, suggests that this isn't the case. Therefor, it's possible that, in our currently limited understanding on how ranged pDIF works and how it works with blue magic, a margin of error is possible, however the probability of an attack bonus of more than 2 or so attack per merit is incredibly unlikely, and the possibility of more than 1 attack per merit is at this point unproven.

How do you explain my previous results? The number I arrived at was supported both by existing pDIF calculations and by me removing my merits, engaging an identical target (re-checked defense), and requiring that much more attack to hit cap. fSTR2 was capped the entire time.

EDIT: I did switch to using Queasyshroom, for what it's worth.

[Prothescar]

I used the most sterile test conditions possible, so I don't know. I most certainly had inconsistent numbers prior to adding Mavi Tathlum on, and 222 was certainly hitting the ratio cap on this particular target within that 1 ATK: DEF range.

The entire thing is bizarre, and I certainly don't want to leave it at believing that it's a flat +5 attack for 5/5 merits. The only thing I could do to get more data that would be harder to dispute is to test with actual melee range physical spells, possibly multiple sets for different levels of skill to see if it's some sort of bizarre scaling thing, but I just don't have the time for that right now.

[Yugl]

How does cannon's DEF modification translate to pDIF? Pure DEF or DEF provides bonus?

[Prothescar]

For Cannonball, Defense is used entirely in place of Attack


As an added bit, for Blazing Bound, Magic Defense Bonus is used entirely in place of Magic Attack Bonus (allows you to do damage with it while double weak, yay)

[Nightfyre]

some sort of bizarre scaling thing

I've touched on this previously but I really do suspect it's a ~5% multiplier, and taken as such our results are actually very close to each other. If we assume that Feather Storm's 10% penalty and a multiplicative bonus are additive per other related stacking terms, 222*0.95=210, which is 3.0 pDIF on your 70 def targets. I'm free pretty much all day tomorrow, so I should be able to gather conclusive data on this.

[Yugl]

I've touched on this previously but I really do suspect it's a ~5% multiplier, and taken as such our results are actually very close to each other.

That was my thought as well. I'm wondering if this is the same term as fantod tbh.

[Prothescar]

Would make sense all things considered, would definitely have to be a very low multiplier, 5% being probable but at the same time feels a little high. I'll get some data too if I get some free time, have a couple of jobs to take care of tomorrow though

[doctorugh]

I will eat my hat if there is a 5% bonus.

[doctorugh]

Worked on trying to figure acc bonus on some multihit spells. Previously I tested BT to have no acc bonus and VD to have at least +60 (capped at acc65%)

Small sample size, but its pretty easy to tell which ones get an acc bonus.
Set acc to 62% on gobthf, roughly 30 casts each

DT sample was +30 acc (assumed no attack bonus)

AS was +3 (likely 0, assumed 12.5% attack)

QS was +44 (significant, assumed +25% attack)

QC was +56 (significant, assumed +25% attack)

GR was +16 (assumed +40% attack)

Take it for what it is worth but I'm done testing stuff for a bit.

[Helel]

Worked on trying to figure acc bonus on some multihit spells. Previously I tested BT to have no acc bonus and VD to have at least +60 (capped at acc65%)

Small sample size, but its pretty easy to tell which ones get an acc bonus.
Set acc to 62% on gobthf, roughly 30 casts each

DT sample was +30 acc (assumed no attack bonus)

AS was +3 (likely 0, assumed 12.5% attack)

QS was +44 (significant, assumed +25% attack)

QC was +56 (significant, assumed +25% attack)

GR was +16 (assumed +40% attack)

Take it for what it is worth but I'm done testing stuff for a bit.

Nice info. I was wondering why QC always landed on the QQ THF in nyzul.

[Prothescar]

That was my thought as well. I'm wondering if this is the same term as fantod tbh.

Reread some stuff and am kinda confused about this, do you mean the way that Fantod stacks with itself, adds to attack, etc.? 'Cause it doesn't affect physical spells.

If we assume that Feather Storm's 10% penalty and a multiplicative bonus are additive per other related stacking terms, 222*0.95=210, which is 3.0 pDIF on your 70 def targets.

Slightly confused on this too, on reading it again. It doesn't explain why 222 attack was required to cap before merits.

.95 * 222 = 210, which is indeed 3x DEF

however

Because 222 attack is what I needed to cap before merits, you'd have 199 attack. It'd be impossible for me to match to my results without it being 1/merit, thus there's something fishy going on, and it's looking less like a 5% multiplier or so in my eyes. Possibly another form of scaling altogether.

[Yugl]

I had been under the impression that Fantod's boost was multiplicative upon itself. Looking at the wikia page again (Which is probably wrong from what I see), that may not be the case.

[Prothescar]

It's correct yes, though I'm not sure how that relates to the merits unless you mean each merit is multiplicative with itself

Fantod: trunc(7⅔*boost#)/256

[Yugl]

I misunderstood Fantod's effect on physical spells, but the idea was that the blue magic attack is functioning in an equation similar to Fantod where the number of merits goes through an equation to determine the boost rather than being a raw value.

[tennotsukai87]

So Tourbillion, Barbed Crescent, etc. will be fixed after this update?

[Nightfyre]

Maybe, maybe not. They worked on the test server, but that's no guarantee they'll work on the live servers.

[Kaisha]

Would be a hell of a thing to ninja in without any notice on the update notes.

[Prothescar]

Wouldnt be the first time they've done something like that, however I'm not holding my breath. Will test it once servers are up, logged out outside of la theine

[Nightfyre]

Still testing but it doesn't look like they fixed anything.

[Prothescar]

Nope, they didn't. Tourbillion, Sandspin, Barbed Crescent, and Hecatomb Wave have all failed to land on each cast so far. Presumably Ageha is still broken as well. Good game, SE.