Blue Mage: Best thread ever

**Toth** · 2013-05-23 15:13

So CDC sword (either coin or Almace) is not recommended as a main hand sword with the delve sword secondary? I was under the impression CDC was the superior weaponskill.

**Prothescar** · 2013-05-23 15:14

Do you see SAMs using Amano/Masa just 'cause Kaiten and Fudo are better weaponskills than Shoha or WARs using Ukon just 'cause Ukko is a better WS than Upheaval? Delve weapons upset the balance of what is assumed to be better due to the fact that they're so much stronger compared to previous options. A 71D sword with a superior weaponskill can't hold a candle to a 130D or 106D weapon with a slightly inferior weaponskill, not even with Aftermath.

**Toth** · 2013-05-23 15:24

Forget it, I am an idiot lol. I forgot that the main weapon alone determines the ws damage. Carry on!

**kenshyn** · 2013-05-23 15:26

Originally Posted by Prothescar

Do you see SAMs using Amano/Masa just 'cause Kaiten and Fudo are better weaponskills than Shoha or WARs using Ukon just 'cause Ukko is a better WS than Upheaval? Delve weapons upset the balance of what is assumed to be better due to the fact that they're so much stronger compared to previous options. A 71D sword with a superior weaponskill can't hold a candle to a 130D or 106D weapon with a slightly inferior weaponskill, not even with Aftermath.

Unless its a bow or gun

**Prothescar** · 2013-05-23 15:30

Originally Posted by Toth

Forget it, I am an idiot lol. I forgot that the main weapon alone determines the ws damage. Carry on!

Well no, offhand weapon has some bearing on weaponskill damage too. Weaponskill superiority isn't always everything, however, and that shows quite readily with these weapons.

**fantasticdan** · 2013-05-23 15:34

How does the delve DA earring set compare to moonshade + brutal for cdc/req?

**kenshyn** · 2013-05-23 15:38

Originally Posted by Prothescar

Well no, offhand weapon has some bearing on weaponskill damage too. Weaponskill superiority isn't always everything, however, and that shows quite readily with these weapons.

Seems some of the old ws are getting a boost with such large D values any one looking at how some of the old favorites may perform like vorpal?

**dasva** · 2013-05-23 15:46

Originally Posted by kenshyn

Unless its a bow or gun

Well that's largely to the unique traits of the ws l. That and anni is just flat out more dmg then delve gun. Even more so after delve ammo

**doctorugh** · 2013-05-23 17:51

Reran all numbers on Delve club/delve sword vs delve sword/cala. A total advantage of roughly 4% for club/sword. I think I initially decided against this because of the drop in acc of spells by 30. Heres the other catch: the only thing worthwhile of creating a SC with (and this damage adds up) is Heavy Strike......which requires alot of acc to land. Another catch 22 by SE...well played.

**stamos** · 2013-05-23 17:56

Or spikes. Does Grav.

**doctorugh** · 2013-05-23 19:48

Eh I've gotten to fond of dark /light

**Tidane** · 2013-05-24 10:13

Originally Posted by Prothescar

, and did you fail to incorporate weaponskills and proper damage calculations too?

That was certainly one possibility, which is why I asked the question. My concern was that my DPS calculations for single-wielding a weapon were not what I had expected they would be.

Originally Posted by Prothescar

What were your results

Below are the comparisons for Halachuinic + Shikargar and Halachuinic with nothing for melee DPS. Hopefully the mistakes I made are obvious to you, because I wasn't able to figure it out. I checked things against the bg-wiki pages and Math subforum, but who knows what I missed.

Enemy Stats (Delve Eft, taken from a post in the math section)

Spoiler: show

Halachuinic + Shikargar

Spoiler: show

Halachuinic

Spoiler: show

**doctorugh** · 2013-05-24 13:16

Originally Posted by Tidane

That was certainly one possibility, which is why I asked the question. My concern was that my DPS calculations for single-wielding a weapon were not what I had expected they would be.

Below are the comparisons for Halachuinic + Shikargar and Halachuinic with nothing for melee DPS. Hopefully the mistakes I made are obvious to you, because I wasn't able to figure it out. I checked things against the bg-wiki pages and Math subforum, but who knows what I missed.

Enemy Stats (Delve Eft, taken from a post in the math section)

Spoiler: show

Halachuinic + Shikargar

Spoiler: show

Halachuinic

Spoiler: show

Your data shows roughly a 25% increase in damage with the DW (on shikargar), mine had 22% difference (with cala). No reason to SW sword.
However, yours should show an even higher % for the following reason:

Multihit attack for 3QA,11TA,30DA should be 1.56 (you had at 1.43)
and 3QA,11TA,35DA should be 1.597 (not 1.53)

3 QA = +9%(1.00)
11TA= +22%(0.97)
30DA= +30%(0.86)
Multi=1.56

**Tidane** · 2013-05-24 15:15

Originally Posted by doctorugh

Multihit attack for 3QA,11TA,30DA should be 1.56 (you had at 1.43)
and 3QA,11TA,35DA should be 1.597 (not 1.53)

3 QA = +9%(1.00)
11TA= +22%(0.97)
30DA= +30%(0.86)
Multi=1.56

Yeah, I've played around with multi-attacks for a decent amount of time, trying to get a sense of what the number is versus what it should be. The numbers I put into my post aren't raw multi-hit attack rates, but accuracy-adjusted rates. I have a few different working models I've been adjusting and revising to try to get as close to the actual in-game rates.

Halachuinic + Shikargar
QA: 3%
TA: 11%
DA: 30%
ATK/RND: 1.56
Hit Rate: 89%
ADJ ATK/RND: 1.39
Previous Post: 1.43
Difference: 0.04 [2.8%]

Halachuinicr
QA: 3%
TA: 11%
DA: 35%
ATK/RND: 1.61
Hit Rate: 92%
ADJ ATK/RND: 1.48
Previous Post: 1.53
Difference: 0.05 [3.3%]

The numbers in my previous post were from a modified model that I was testing at the time and forgot to change back.

**onihavoc** · 2013-05-30 21:16

I would be interested in seeing some up to date vorpal and requiscat builds or what would be the "ideal" setup for them.

**Hazu** · 2013-06-01 06:56

Question for those better at spreadsheets then I.

Been looking at making some delve gear sets for my CDC, I know Almace isnt the best DD option at the moment but I put a lot of work into making it 99 and I still do well in Plasma farms using Delve gear for TP, and I'm hoping with the upcoming increase to r/e/m it will be back or near the top again.

I was thinking of using Thur hat and Manib body to replace tocis/oceo+1, the stat and attack boosts are bigger (especially with path A on the body) but it looses the DA and TA.

I'm not much of a pro when it comes to math-ing out gear so Im not sure what the loss will do - any thoughts?

**doctorugh** · 2013-06-02 09:48

Originally Posted by Hazu

Question for those better at spreadsheets then I.

Been looking at making some delve gear sets for my CDC, I know Almace isnt the best DD option at the moment but I put a lot of work into making it 99 and I still do well in Plasma farms using Delve gear for TP, and I'm hoping with the upcoming increase to r/e/m it will be back or near the top again.

I was thinking of using Thur hat and Manib body to replace tocis/oceo+1, the stat and attack boosts are bigger (especially with path A on the body) but it looses the DA and TA.

I'm not much of a pro when it comes to math-ing out gear so Im not sure what the loss will do - any thoughts?

For straight damage Thur/Mani wont pass your current combo until you get up to about rank 8 on manibody, however the whenever acc is an issue the mani/thur combo with beat it easily. Gearing for acc may give you better options for att food, so that is also something to think about (ie sushi vs pizza, or pizza vs RCB). For example I currently have enough acc built into my DNC that I can safely eat RCB when doing delve fodder mobs.

**Galiber** · 2013-06-02 10:51

Sheets have always given me a significantly better result using Thur hat and Athos body over Oce+1 and Toci. I've neglected it until now but with the new tp set I'm considering removing Toci and Oce to save inv ( counting it would even perform better... ).

What's holding me back is the months spent doing pil!

**dasva** · 2013-06-06 23:44

Anyone try making absolute terror sets and seeing how well you can land on nms without ES?

**Kyte** · 2013-06-07 01:00

I didn't really have any trouble landing it on the Orobon NM without ES and just a mediocre MACC set.

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