Blue Mage: Best thread ever

[Gulkeeva]

Burst damage is great and all, but with enough refresh BLU/NIN can spam spells while BLU/THF cannot.

Is there any reason why a /nin can spam spells whereas a /thf cant ?

BLU/nin you pull hate you won't die as fast
blu/thf you do max damage, you'll get your face raped, becuase no one can pull it off you.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Burst damage is great and all, but with enough refresh BLU/NIN can spam spells while BLU/THF cannot.

Is there any reason why a /nin can spam spells whereas a /thf cant ?

BLU/nin you pull hate you won't die as fast
blu/thf you do max damage, you'll get your face raped, becuase no one can pull it off you.

Cocoon, Magic Fruit, Stuns, Diamondhide. BLU is far from helpless.

[Not Kuno]

Burst damage is great and all, but with enough refresh BLU/NIN can spam spells while BLU/THF cannot.

Is there any reason why a /nin can spam spells whereas a /thf cant ?

BLU/nin you pull hate you won't die as fast
blu/thf you do max damage, you'll get your face raped, becuase no one can pull it off you.

I sata the scizzors so I don't get hate and if you have a pld you won't steal hate from just spam. Like I said earlier, /nin is good if you have a nin tank or are fighting stuff that dies too fast + eccentric hate but I only stole hate once the last time I leveled, and I was going nuts on the mobs with a pld tank /thf.

[Gulkeeva]

Burst damage is great and all, but with enough refresh BLU/NIN can spam spells while BLU/THF cannot.

Is there any reason why a /nin can spam spells whereas a /thf cant ?

BLU/nin you pull hate you won't die as fast
blu/thf you do max damage, you'll get your face raped, becuase no one can pull it off you.

I sata the scizzors so I don't get hate and if you have a pld you won't steal hate from just spam. Like I said earlier, /nin is good if you have a nin tank or are fighting stuff that dies too fast + eccentric hate but I only stole hate once the last time I leveled, and I was going nuts on the mobs with a pld tank /thf.

I havne't found any good PLD's on this server, I steal hate off them unless they get a thf ;;

[NynJa]

Burst damage is great and all, but with enough refresh BLU/NIN can spam spells while BLU/THF cannot.

Is there any reason why a /nin can spam spells whereas a /thf cant ?

BLU/nin you pull hate you won't die as fast
blu/thf you do max damage, you'll get your face raped, becuase no one can pull it off you.

cant spam spells if you're too busy recasting utsusemi....and getting interrupted.

[DrObvious]

Cocoon, Magic Fruit, Stuns, Diamondhide. BLU is far from helpless.

That's a lot of set points. I don't even have diamondhide yet and I find myself at 40/40 w/o equipping cocoon and only sometimes equipping magic fruit. I don't see the spell choices becoming any easier when I get access to hysteric barrage.

With cocoon diamondhide will last about ~2 hits? If you have hate you don't want to heal yourself...you want the tank to get hate back.

/thf only really works when there is some coordination with another sata user, not all parties are set up that way and not all people are willing to cooperate. Sata on someone else just makes them the mp sink instead of you.

I do agree with Kuno though, /thf all the way with a pld. It can work in nin parties too, but in most nin parties I find /nin to be superior as I'm holding back too much with /thf. My best experience /thf has been with a thf where I would spam sa and he would sata back onto the nin.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

With cocoon diamondhide will last about ~2 hits? If you have hate you don't want to heal yourself...you want the tank to get hate back.

If you get hate you should have done enough damage that the mob should be almost dead.

[DrObvious]

The faith you place in the average tank is misguided.

Like I said, when everything clicks /thf is great. When it doesn't, it blows.

[Koyangi]

In 9/10 parties I've been in my DD/DoT potential falls greatly with /thf vs /nin, I can't hardly spam spells w/o pulling hate as /thf, meaning I'm forced to hold back; /nin and knowing how to utilize shadows when you get hate, and tank gets hate back. Escpecially when I have rdm + brd and/or cor, /nin >>>>/thf since I want to spend my MP.

[Not Kuno]

The faith you place in the average tank is misguided.

Like I said, when everything clicks /thf is great. When it doesn't, it blows.

I agree. You guys must have terrible terrible tanks. I very rarely steal hate on blu even when I spam everything I got.

[Gulkeeva]

In 9/10 parties I've been in my DD/DoT potential falls greatly with /thf vs /nin, I can't hardly spam spells w/o pulling hate as /thf, meaning I'm forced to hold back; /nin and knowing how to utilize shadows when you get hate, and tank gets hate back. Escpecially when I have rdm + brd and/or cor, /nin >>>>/thf since I want to spend my MP.

well that may be almsot true but, I usualy saveup for the killshots and random casts through a fight

like sa frenetic rip after 2 provokes 400-700 damage won't pull hate off a PLD (nin I wait for like 2 unless they WS early then sjut go after their WS)
and with the builtup TP (about 50-120%) take the mob from 30~35% Hp -> dead with a death scissors usualy for 700~1200 on IT mobs.

I keep in mandibular bite also which is a nice 200-300 damage you can toss in randomly, and 60-120 damage headbutts at random.

[Mysterio]

So much versatility from Bluemage.

Will be cool to see a 6-lvl 75 BLU burn parties in near future.

Then after about 2 weeks of it, it will seem as ho-hum as normal melee groups. lol

[FFXIFlux]

The faith you place in the average tank is misguided.

Like I said, when everything clicks /thf is great. When it doesn't, it blows.

I agree. You guys must have terrible terrible tanks. I very rarely steal hate on blu even when I spam everything I got.

Sanction + auto refresh + vermillion + refresh + conserve MP = enough MP to do disseverment + rip at least once every fight + vorpal blade. Unlike a BLM I don't have -enmity gear on, in fact I probably have warwolf belt and maybe some other +enmity. I haven't had a paladin yet that could hold hate on me. Of course it doesn't help that you want to disseverment as the pull comes in since the longer the 18/tick DOT is on the mob, the better.

[DrObvious]

like sa frenetic rip after 2 provokes 400-700 damage won't pull hate off a PLD (nin I wait for like 2 unless they WS early then sjut go after their WS)
and with the builtup TP (about 50-120%) take the mob from 30~35% Hp -> dead with a death scissors usualy for 700~1200 on IT mobs.

I don't think I've ever done 35% of the mob's life, maybe 25% at most, usually less. It seems like your parties are taking 2 mins to kill the mob though(wait 1 min to use sa, then 1 min again for sa death scissors)?

[Hiruke]

If you're in the 60s or higher and can't pull hate with /NIN even when you throw everything you got at the mob... You should probably seriously consider upgrading your gear or changing which spells you have equipped. I PPTed with a very capable NIN with me as BLM from 60-75, and I've been in pretty much every HNM situation conceivable as every mage job... I understand how hate works and whether or not the tank is good.

For me, on BLU/NIN, bad tank = I'm afraid to WS until the mob is at 25% or less and it can be killed out of hand. Good tank = If I Vorpal Blade at the beginning of the fight and don't miss a bunch a bunch of hits, I might want to save my damage spells until later in the fight. Even if I waited until 50% to start spamming my spells and WS, I could easily pull hate off any but the most ridiculously geared tank. (This is not an accomplishment, I'm just making a point. People who intentionally steal hate, especially BLMs... that does not make them uber by any stretch of the imagination.)

I'm sure /THF is also a very good SJ. It's not what I like to play, and moreover my PT set-up isn't really geared toward it (unless I want to be like those THF mains who get tired of people screwing up the SATA set up and just TA onto whoever is stupid enough to be behind the mob at the time). That said, if you can't deal efficient damage with /NIN, you're not properly geared for it in some fashion, because it is defnitely a viable SJ for dealing a nice volume of damage over the course of the fight.

Ninja Edit: Yes, on ITs. If you can't pull hate on ITs... lol. Just wow.

[Celeras]

If you're in the 60s or higher and can't pull hate with /NIN even when you throw everything you got at the mob... You should probably seriously consider upgrading your gear or changing which spells you have equipped. I PPTed with a very capable NIN with me as BLM from 60-75, and I've been in pretty much every HNM situation conceivable as every mage job... I understand how hate works and whether or not the tank is good.

For me, on BLU/NIN, bad tank = I'm afraid to WS until the mob is at 25% or less and it can be killed out of hand. Good tank = If I Vorpal Blade at the beginning of the fight and don't miss a bunch a bunch of hits, I might want to save my damage spells until later in the fight. Even if I waited until 50% to start spamming my spells and WS, I could easily pull hate off any but the most ridiculously geared tank. (This is not an accomplishment, I'm just making a point. People who intentionally steal hate, especially BLMs... that does not make them uber by any stretch of the imagination.)

I'm sure /THF is also a very good SJ. It's not what I like to play, and moreover my PT set-up isn't really geared toward it (unless I want to be like those THF mains who get tired of people screwing up the SATA set up and just TA onto whoever is stupid enough to be behind the mob at the time). That said, if you can't deal efficient damage with /NIN, you're not properly geared for it in some fashion, because it is defnitely a viable SJ for dealing a nice volume of damage over the course of the fight.

Ninja Edit: Yes, on ITs. If you can't pull hate on ITs... lol. Just wow.

Thats alot of text, im not gonna pretend I read every word but ill sum it up for you in 4:

Get a new tank.

[Gulkeeva]

like sa frenetic rip after 2 provokes 400-700 damage won't pull hate off a PLD (nin I wait for like 2 unless they WS early then sjut go after their WS)
and with the builtup TP (about 50-120%) take the mob from 30~35% Hp -> dead with a death scissors usualy for 700~1200 on IT mobs.

I don't think I've ever done 35% of the mob's life, maybe 25% at most, usually less. It seems like your parties are taking 2 mins to kill the mob though(wait 1 min to use sa, then 1 min again for sa death scissors)?

Well I swap between sa and ca and for some sa+ca so every 2 mobs I do a sa+ca and atleast sa per mob. Most the PT's reach chain 5 atleast *ahem* usualy, ya know pickup pt's these days... "AFK 5min, brb gotta go pee, brb drink, brb gotta walk the dog, brb gotta go eat etc etc"

and anyway I'd guess it depends on mob 900 sa+ca deathscissors is like near 30% Hp off crawlers at mount zhaolym, 1100+ is pretty much near and or over 35% hp off

I'll take a screenshot next time I go if I do, most pt's I been to want to poke fleas >.>

[Tanthalas]

I browsed quickly through the last 2 pages, and I'm noticing that those who are arguing for BLU/THF seem to be mid 60's. In other words, pre-Disseverment, pre-Hysteric Barrage.

I'd have to agree with you, you can't really "spam" spells for massive damage before you get all three of those spells (Fren, Diss, Hyst). Only then, can you effectively rotate 3 HIGH output spells with little recast downtime. Trust me, you'll pull hate - I do all the time. I don't even use CA unless it happens to get timed well right after a WS. Sword merits (I have 6) and decent gear (I have decent, but not best by far) really help you build TP faster with Dual Wield (Haste Gear + Suppanomimi) for WS spammage, plus the option to "spam" three really good spells.

Before 69, I could see where you guys are coming from because of Death Scissors. That spell simply kicks ass with SA, even more with SATACAJABAZADAFATALALALA, so I definitely see where you're coming from. What's a BLU/NIN going to spam with before then? Frenetic Rip, Death Scissors, Mandibular Bite, Spinal Cleave, Dimensional Death? In other words, all of those spells are pretty mediocre in DMG:MP-COST:RECAST ratios.

Once you get to 72 (Suppanomimi + Disseverment + Dusk Level), I think NIN subjob will clearly take over any THF subjob (even a skilled player with good gear) on the parser. Disclaimer: I am speaking of VT burn style PT's - not IT++ PT's (my BLU/NIN sucked on IT++ mobs the whole way to 75 so I custom tailored all my PT's to be VT burns).

[Machazareel]

Dual-Wield does not increase your TP gain, Suppa does not increase your TP gain. TP per hit is directly proportionate to your delay. You will attack faster, yes, but you're also getting less TP per swing than if you were to single-wield. >_>

[Airshort7]

Dual-Wield does not increase your TP gain, Suppa does not increase your TP gain. TP per hit is directly proportionate to your delay. You will attack faster, yes, but you're also getting less TP per swing than if you were to single-wield. >_>

Sickle Slash + Tail Slap = I get 6tp per hit while dual wielding ftw