Blue Mage: Best thread ever

[tennotsukai87]

after the update, will the thaumas coat still be best for tp build? I'm assuming so...

[kenshyn]

I Just dream they turn gd requiescat to a str mod would go a long way and take off the attack penalty lol.

[Damane]

I Just dream they turn gd requiescat to a str mod would go a long way and take off the attack penalty lol.

this would prolly get us on par with other DDs, Just takeing the attack penalty would help alot!

[tennotsukai87]

Using Google Translate, I saw in the JP Dev section, probably a reply from producer, a paragraph on where they talk about nin's and blu's spells. The producer does talk something about raising blu's D in it. Anyone know JP better than google?

[tennotsukai87]

Using Google Translate, I saw in the JP Dev section, probably a reply from producer, a paragraph on where they talk about nin's and blu's spells. The producer does talk something about raising blu's D in it. Anyone know JP better than google?

Eh...nvm.

[Kyte]

Slycer did translate a blurb about that, but the full meaning is still fairly cryptic. It kind of sounds like they're trying to say that the level 60+ spells are starting to hit base damage caps. That doesn't seem to really add up at all with what people have tested in the past (and Heavy Strike is already a fairly high level spell), but it would be nice if someone could perhaps test Tamaxchi again with a higher level spell such as Barbed Crescent.

Although it was mentioned in other threads that magic damage and accuracy would rise in proportion to combat skill on the main weapon, I tried it out with Tamaxchi on blue mage (club skill +188), but I did not see the damage effect of blue magic rise as I would have expected. Has the specification not already been implemented? [[Goes on about blue magic]]
For physical blue magic, the upper limit of the damage will be adjusted with DMG. For certain spells, they did not reach their damage limit, but do now with the "combat skill +" gear, while there are other spells which will continue to grow.

I don't know, it can be taken a few different ways, none of which make a whole lot of sense.

[dasva]

There was testing on here that showed a kinda meh rise. Like 20 base dmg or so iirc. Maybe it meant that the base dmg increase from that caps kinda like the magic dmg stat is and much lower than expect and so weren't using all the skill?

[Fireon]

I think what he's trying to say is that with a really high DMG rating, the threshold of potential damage goes up. So, like, say the maximum a Delta Thrust can do with a 90 Almace is 400. Equip a Halachuinic Sword instead, and the maximum goes up to 500. Buramenk'ah raises it to 600. But there were no provisions gearwise for easily hitting that potential, as all we have to work with is higher attack and a couple boosted stats. With the planned adjustment, a BLU with Bura is going to be seeing a lot more 600s.

This is just a generalization, or course, but you see my point. That's why the testing with Tamaxchi wasn't that great a boost, because while the damage was indeed boosted, the fact that the DMG rating of the weapon was 88 made the effect of the skill increase less substantial.

[larrymc]

Is there an up to date list of currently known D caps for physical blu spells?
Or is D cap just the level of the spell roughly?

[Kyte]

As far as I know, base damage from skill didn't cap for any 60+ spell.

There was testing on here that showed a kinda meh rise. Like 20 base dmg or so iirc.

I'm aware- we discussed it 2 pages ago lol

[larrymc]

Unless I'm misunderstanding the official SE post here -

I'm sure you know that there is a damage value cap for physical blue magic spells.

While I am not certain which spells you used that made you feel this way, it could be you are feeling this because you've hit the cap on Head Butt, Quadratic Continuum, and such.

Even for spells that weren't able to reach the cap before, by using equipment with "combat skill +" there are spells that will reach the cap and spells that have room to grow.

they are implying that D is already capped (or near cap) at player level 99 for Quadratic Continuum - which is a level 85 spell.

[Alistaire]

I know I'd seen before the cap was roughly 15 levels worth of skill above the spell level.

[dasva]

I know I'd seen before the cap was roughly 15 levels worth of skill above the spell level.

Which if that holds and the reason they added so little is because of this it still is kinda unless. That would mean assuming no other skill gear or merits you would be only using a bit over of the skill on the weapon on lvl 99 spells. Much less on lower lvl spells

[Prothescar]

Known D Caps

Spoiler: show

Foot Kick - D Cap 9, 10% STR 10% DEX, fTP 1.0
5MP, 6.5 seconds

Power Attack - D Cap 11, 30% VIT, fTP 1.125
5MP, 7.25 seconds

Sprout Smack - D Cap 11, 30% VIT, fTP 1.5 [Slow: 15% for 3:00]
6MP, 7.25 seconds

Wild Oats - D Cap 11, 30% AGI, fTP 1.8359375
9MP, 7.25 seconds

Queasyshroom - D Cap 15, 20% INT, fTP 1.75 [Poison: 3/tic for 1:30 ~ 3:00]
20MP, 15 seconds

Battle Dance - D Cap 17, 30% STR, fTP 2.0
12MP, 10 seconds

Head Butt - D Cap 17, 20% STR 20% INT, fTP 1.75(0) 2.125(150), 2.25(300), 2.375(350)
12MP, 10 seconds

Feather Storm - D Cap 17, 30% AGI, fTP 2.0 [Poison: 1/tic for 1:30]
12MP, 10 seconds

Helldive - D Cap 19, 30% AGI, fTP 1.25(0) 1.625(150) 2(300) 2.125(350)
16MP, 11.25 seconds

Bludgeon - D Cap 21, 30% CHR, fTP 1.0
16MP, 11.75 seconds

Claw Cyclone - D Cap 23, 30% DEX, fTP 1.4375
24MP, 19.75 seconds

Screwdriver - D Cap 27, 20% STR 20% MND, fTP 1.375
21MP, 14 seconds

Grand Slam - D Cap 33, 30% VIT, fTP 1.0
24MP, 14.25 seconds

Smite of Rage - D Cap 35, 20% STR 20% DEX, fTP 1.5(0) 2.25(150) 2.5(300) 2.53125(350)
28MP, 13 seconds

Pinecone Bomb - D Cap 37, 20% STR 20% AGI, fTP 2.25 [Sleep: 0:10 ~ 1:00]
48MP, 26.5 seconds

Jet Stream - D Cap 39, 30% AGI, fTP 1.125
47MP, 23 seconds

Uppercut - D Cap 39, 35% STR, fTP 1.5
31MP, 17.75 seconds

Terror Touch - D Cap 41, 20% DEX 20% INT, fTP 1.5 [Attack Down: 15% (38/256) for 1:00]
62MP, 21 seconds

Mandibular Bite - D Cap 45, 20% STR 20% INT, fTP 2.0
38MP, 19.25 seconds

Sickle Slash - D Cap 49, 50% DEX, fTP 1.5
41MP, 20.5 seconds
**SPELLS BEYOND THIS POINT HAVE NO REACHABLE D CAP**

Death Scissors - 60% STR, fTP 1.5(0) 2.75(150) 3.25(300) 3.296875(350)
51MP, 24.5 seconds

Dimensional Death - 50% STR, fTP 2.25
48MP, 23.75 seconds

Spiral Spin - 30% AGI, fTP 2.0 [Accuracy Down: -15 for 0:45 ~ 1:00]
39MP, 45 seconds

Seedspray - 30% DEX, fTP 0.875 [Defense Down: -8% (20/256) for 1:30 ~ 2:00]
61MP, 35 seconds

Body Slam - 40% VIT, fTP 1.5
74MP, 27.75 seconds

Spinal Cleave - 30% STR, fTP 3.0
61MP, 28.5 seconds

Frenetic Rip - 20% STR 20% DEX, fTP 1.359375(0) 2.0703125(150) 2.359375(300) 2.609375(350) [Attack bonus]
61MP, 28.5 seconds

Frypan - 20% STR 20% MND, fTP 1.7734375
65MP, 26 seconds

Hydro Shot - 30% AGI, fTP 1.25 [Enmity Down effect is miniscule, so small that the damage done by the spell often overtakes the decrease]
55MP, 26 seconds

Tail Slap - 20% STR 50% VIT, fTP 1.625
77MP, 28.5 seconds

Hysteric Barrage - 30% DEX, fTP 1.25(0) 1.625(150) 1.75(300) 1.875(350)
61MP, 28.5 seconds

Asuran Claws - 10% STR 10% DEX, fTP 0.625
81MP, 60 seconds

Cannonball - 50% STR 50% VIT, fTP 1.75(0) 2.125(150) 2.75(300) 2.875(350) [Uses Defense rather than Attack to calculate damage.]
66MP, 28.5 seconds

Disseverment - 20% STR 20% DEX, fTP 1.5 [Poison: level/5+3 for 3:00]
74MP, 32.75 seconds


Sub-zero Smash - 60% VIT, fTP 2.0 [Paralyze: 10% for 3:00]
44MP, 30 seconds

Ram Charge - 30% STR 50% MND, fTP 1.0(0) 1.375(150) 1.75(300) 1.875(350)
79MP, 34.75 seconds

Vertical Cleave - 50% STR, fTP 3.0
86MP, 37.25 seconds

Final Sting - fTP 1.0 [Damage varies with HP, will never deal more than 66% of a monster's HP in damage.]
88MP, 11 seconds

Goblin Rush - 30% STR 30% DEX, fTP 1.25 [+35% Attack bonus]
76MP, 25.5 seconds

Vanity Dive - 50% DEX, fTP 3.0(0) 4.0(150) 4.5(300) 4.75(350) [+66% Attack bonus]
58MP, 40 seconds

Benthic Typhoon - 60% AGI, fTP 4.0(0) 4.5(150) 5.0(300) 5.25(350) [Defense Down: -10% (25/256) for 1:00. Magic Defense Down: -10 for 1:00]
56MP, 55 seconds

Whirl of Rage - 30% STR 30% MND, fTP 3.0(0) 3.5(150) 4.0(300) 4.25(350)
73MP, 30 seconds

Quad. Continuum - 32% STR 32% VIT, fTP 1.25(0) 1.5(150) 1.75(300) 2.0(350) [Attack bonus]
91MP, 31.75 seconds

Empty Thrash - 50% STR, fTP 2.0
33MP, 40.75 seconds

Delta Thrust - 20% STR 50% VIT, fTP 1.09375 [Plague: -10TP and -6MP/tic for 0:40 ~ 1:00]
28MP, 15 seconds

Heavy Strike - 50% STR, fTP 2.5(0) 3.5(150) 4(300) ???(350) [Scores a critical hit 100% of the time. Possesses a penalty of -100 Accuracy]
32MP, 30 seconds

Sudden Lunge - 40% AGI, fTP 1.5(0) 2.5(150) 3.0(300) ???(350) [Boasts an incredibly potent stun effect.]
18MP, 12 seconds

Quadrastrike - 30% STR, fTP 1.1875 [Roughly 33% Critical Hit Rate at 150% TP]
98MP, 42.5 seconds

Tourbillion - 25% STR 25% MND, fTP 4.0 [Defense Down: -33% (85/256) for 1:30 ~ 2:00]
108MP, You are only able to cast this spell while under the effect of Unbridled Learning

Amorphic Spikes - 20% DEX 20% INT, fTP 1.0(0) 1.375(150) ???(300) ???(350) [Attack bonus]
79MP, 58.25 seconds

Barbed Crescent - 50% DEX, fTP 2.0 [Accuracy Down: -30 for 2:00]
52MP, 22 seconds

Bilgestorm - ???% ???, fTP ??? [Defense Down: -25% (64/256) for 0:30 ~ 1:00. Attack Down: -25% (64/256) for 0:30 ~ 1:00. Accuracy Down: -??? for 0:30 - 1:00]
122MP, You are only able to cast this spell while under the effect of Unbridled Learning

Anything without a number has no discernible D cap with currently available tools. We must have been right on the edge of cap if 20 extra is all we needed. Ignore attack bonuses and shit, I haven't updated this list in months

[Yugl]

To be fair, 20 base damage is like 70 to 82 skill (Neither is precisely 20, so the range is 19-21). Still, were pre75 spells tested at 99? I don't see how we go from no caps for LV60 to 99 spells to capped for every spell with just that much base damage.

[Prothescar]

Yes. I was never able to reach a discernible D cap on any spell after Sickle Slash.

[Foldypaws]

Wouldn't an easy way to test this be to look at spells we already know are capped (Like say, Feather storm which has the advantage of consistent damage), and see if the club adds any damage to them? If it doesn't, it's just adding to the D term, which is now somehow capped. If it does, it's working differently somehow.

[larrymc]

I posted this on official forum - sorry for cross post.

Spoiler: show

I almost hesitate to post these testing results ... because

1) the sample set is so small and
2) the results are so disappointing.

I decided to test against an adoulin mob - I picked Monster Peiste in Morimar Basalt Fields for high levelish fighting conditions.
They check as "very tough".

My stats were str 87+56, dex 93+36, vit 77+5, agi 83+22, int 91+14, mnd 80+59, chr 81, blu skill 455 for all tests.

For the testing of each spell - I did several with Tamaxchi in main hand, Mondaha Cudgel offhand.
Then I would swap clubs & perform more spells.

I have tested a variety of spells - all level ranges - with the assumption that the higher level the spell, the higher the D cap.

All tests were for a given spell were performed against the exact same mob (these mobs have quite a bit of HP).

Quadrastrike - LVL96
Raw data
....Tamachi mainhand - 987,760,879,1007,644
....Tamachi off-hand - 804,784,719,588,541

Average
....Tamachi mainhand - 855.4 (24% increase)
....Tamachi off-hand - 687.2

Death Scissors - LVL34
Raw data
....Tamachi mainhand - 434,378,417,333,316,327,322,415,312,337
....Tamachi off-hand - 295,400,267,383,304,310,328,234,404,327,409

Average
....Tamachi mainhand - 359.1 (7% increase)
....Tamachi off-hand - 332.8


Vanity Dive - LVL82 (data from 2 mobs combined)
Raw data
....Tamachi mainhand - 570,774,770,637,873,762,559,889,885,660,603,809
....Tamachi off-hand - 483,495,498,763,553,563,716,705,688,731,623,689

Average
....Tamachi mainhand - 732.5 (17% increase)
....Tamachi off-hand - 625.5

Whirl of Rage - LVL83
Raw data
....Tamachi mainhand - 681,631,772,498,625,611
....Tamachi off-hand - 412,424,693,679,469,548

Average
....Tamachi mainhand - 636.3 (18% increase)
....Tamachi off-hand - 537.5

Barbed Crescent - LVL99
Raw data
....Tamachi mainhand - 430,382,347,263,383,385,322,335,369,405
....Tamachi off-hand - 335,328,333,337,340,322,328,226,330

Average
....Tamachi mainhand - 362.1 (13% increase)
....Tamachi off-hand - 319.8


Sudden Lunge - LVL95
Raw data
....Tamachi mainhand - 127,87,143,89,124,122,123,114,112,122
....Tamachi off-hand - 110,103,126,124,124,88,86,123,114,104

Average
....Tamachi mainhand - 116.3 (5% increase)
....Tamachi off-hand - 110.2


Each sample set was small - but taken in aggregate - we are not getting enough of a damage boost to be competitive.

I really hope that this is a bug in implementation, and not what SE intended...

[tennotsukai87]

Can anyone answer what is better in terms of dealing more damage? The Tamaxchi or the Mondaha Cudgel?

[Shaano]

I'm no blu or keep up with this shit but mura sam vs req blu's on mobs that need the non physical dmg weapon skills in delve, which is pulling out. Read mura was losing its joy.