AV: Nobody Cares About Him Anymore...

[aurik]

[quote=Demetrios]

I'm sick of hearing you a quadrillion times. Oh, and why don't you refute it if you're so tired of hearing it? Douche.

I have. Many times. I'm not going to copy paste my arguements again, I'm sick of that.

Maxx is right, I would honestly bet alot of people that bitch about Sea bitch because it's the cool thing to do. I personally enjoy it quite abit, fun fights, the torques are nice, some of the weapons are pretty good (PLD/NIN Dual Wield Justice/Joyuese GG). Of course my LS never really agreed with me on this (likely due to our awful record on Torque and Cape drops).

While the loot tables are people's main concern, for LSs like Deme's that are almost totally capped out on Kings and Sky, what else is there to do?

Do some ToAU or level another job so they have to camp more and get the abj for the new job.

Or realize that really, only the leaders are capped out on kings/sky, and that's why they are naziing the peons to go farm sea instead for their fat loots.

Ground kings and farming sea are far from mutually exclusive. We haven't stopped camping these except during our initial rush to get everyone sea access (what a blunder that was =_=).

But meh, I have zero mage jobs leveled besides BRD (NIN, WAR, RNG, PLD being my others) which I use almost only for Ballista (ever hit a BRD who's wearing -41% dmg gear? XD). I farm sea to equip the mages who have been in the shell for a damn long time. Do you think I really want a Novio Earring for my NIN/BLM? I have no fantasies that my LS can kill AV without the wall, so you can't claim its drops as my motivation.[/quote:456b2]

No wonder people burn out of this game, when their leaders demand them to camp 3-10 hours a day for kings PLUS farm shitty-ass sea PLUS be ready at the drop of a hat to go kill Yet Another Fire Crystal Dropping Tiamat.

[Lockecole]

Basically in closing, everyone who is defending sea KNOWS ABOUT THE ABYSMAL DROP RATES. You don't need to keep on reminding us. We remember the 5hour Ix'DRK pops, the 0/15 drop rate on Hope Virtue. Never getting a cape to drop unless you're forced to kill an Aern without the chance of a Deed. We remember the constant training and deaths involved in that. We remember AV destroying us, and no possible win in sight. We remember 15% Torque droprates.

But guess what. We remember all of that, it was an experience, and to SOME people it's still worth it. Its worth experiencing something new, its worth getting those items that NOONE else has just because sea is so difficult. Knowing you're one of 2 people on the server with Novia earring says that your LS is willing to tough shit out and do things. No it doesnt always mean you're a loot whore, I went into sea to get a JoL pop set knowing it wouldnt benefit me and didnt care, its just as pimp to see a leading member in your LS pimp an item out as you doing it yourself.

Some people wanna experience something new, that plain and simple. My first DL kill was the most absolutely mind-blowing thing Ive ever done in a game before. I was a semi-noob back then and it was just so beyond anything I had done before in scope that it just blew me away. Guess what, the 3-4 after that were kinda meh, were still cool but nothing to speak of really. Sometimes you gotta just go out there and experience things and something new can really click with you the right way, and bring some life back into this game.

[BRP]

And BG forums is an end game LS community >_>;

You mean a forum that talks about FFXI from an end-game perspective. Because I've seen enough Quest and Assault threads to prove you wrong if you take that phrase too literal.

[Demetrios]

No wonder people burn out of this game, when their leaders demand them to camp 3-10 hours a day for kings PLUS farm shitty-ass sea PLUS be ready at the drop of a hat to go kill Yet Another Fire Crystal Dropping Tiamat.

Diplomacy is your friend. There are two far end game NA HNMLSes on my server. We trade HNM pops like Tiamat, and weekly turns on monsters like Fafnir/Nidhogg. Shit is a lot easier to handle when you get breaks from it and know that when you do go, that your greatest competition won't show up. I'd go fucking insane if we had to do Fafnir every day while it is in NA hours or watch Tiamat like a hawk.

[Flarega]

It wouldn't break the game. Fights are already easy. Its the new content that makes the game harder. Honestly I don't give a flying fuck if a piece of equipment allows me to kill nidhogg a few minutes faster than I would without it because guess what, I STILL WOULD HAVE WON.

HNM fights have reached the point where the gear you have doesn't really change whether you win or not. Look at sea. You can't kill Jailers the way you beat every other mob in the game. It requires thought before you can just blow the mob up.

So honestly, why do people dread gear that will make fights go faster? The players have already gotten pretty much every new NM fight down to a science so who the fuck cares if it goes faster?

The game is bigger than HNM fights. It would break Meriting, Soloing, Assault, Missions, Job Balance (even more), and more. It would also make them have to escalate new content to impossible levels for people who have the awesome gear to have any challenge which makes the game suck for people who haven't played for over 2 years. So you piss off a whole bunch of people who leveled to 75 only to learn its impossible to experience fresh content and have to grind the old shit over and over again while the new, creative things can't be done.

Shutup. Seriously. You lose and I'll say why.

Meriting: Warriors already get about 15k/hr in new areas. Jobs like PLD, THF, and DRK would go INSANE if they were offered that kind of exp. How is that not broken, and how does that not illustrate how imbalanced the jobs are already? Two of your ideas on how better gear than sky would break the game down.

Assault: Assault is already shown itself to be very dynamic like sea fights. For example, blowing up boulders with mines, making Mamool Ja throw their weapons at untargetable doors to open them. New equipment won't make those fights undynamic.

Missions: All the city missions are easy; RoZ missions are easy(w/o introduction of new gear). CoP missions are hard and will remain hard because they're level capped. ToAU missions involve no fighting, can't say yet.

Job imbalance: I'll just reitorate this. Jobs are unbalanced. There's a reason people put up exp comments that say MNK pt or WAR pt only. Thats because the other jobs aren't as useful for meriting. There's a reason people use a lot of BLMs for HNM fights and BCNMs because BLMs deal a crapload of damage whenever they want to, other jobs can't do that.

Oh, and your whole shpeal about new LSes not being able to experience new content? No shit? You have to learn to crawl before you walk, so you can't expect to just walk into an extremly difficult endgame area with tons of noobs expecting to own the place. There's a reason theres tons more sky linkshells than there are land LS or Wyrm LS. The sky linkshells haven't gotten good enough to take down the three kings or wyrms yet so they stick to sky.

Progression in FFXI already exists, its just much less apparent than say WoW. When was the last time you read about people making a linkshell that would start by farming Tiamat then moving to sky once they got bored with wyrms? Never? That's what I thought.

[Lockecole]

No wonder people burn out of this game, when their leaders demand them to camp 3-10 hours a day for kings PLUS farm shitty-ass sea PLUS be ready at the drop of a hat to go kill Yet Another Fire Crystal Dropping Tiamat.

Diplomacy is your friend. There are two far end game NA HNMLSes on my server. We trade HNM pops like Tiamat, and weekly turns on monsters like Fafnir/Nidhogg. Shit is a lot easier to handle when you get breaks from it and know that when you do go, that your greatest competition won't show up. I'd go fucking insane if we had to do Fafnir every day while it is in NA hours or watch Tiamat like a hawk.

.................................................. .......wtf server are you on?

[aurik]

No wonder people burn out of this game, when their leaders demand them to camp 3-10 hours a day for kings PLUS farm shitty-ass sea PLUS be ready at the drop of a hat to go kill Yet Another Fire Crystal Dropping Tiamat.

Diplomacy is your friend. There are two far end game NA HNMLSes on my server. We trade HNM pops like Tiamat, and weekly turns on monsters like Fafnir/Nidhogg. Shit is a lot easier to handle when you get breaks from it and know that when you do go, that your greatest competition won't show up. I'd go fucking insane if we had to do Fafnir every day while it is in NA hours or watch Tiamat like a hawk.

.................................................. .......wtf server are you on?

Echoed for incredulity.

[Demetrios]

No wonder people burn out of this game, when their leaders demand them to camp 3-10 hours a day for kings PLUS farm shitty-ass sea PLUS be ready at the drop of a hat to go kill Yet Another Fire Crystal Dropping Tiamat.

Diplomacy is your friend. There are two far end game NA HNMLSes on my server. We trade HNM pops like Tiamat, and weekly turns on monsters like Fafnir/Nidhogg. Shit is a lot easier to handle when you get breaks from it and know that when you do go, that your greatest competition won't show up. I'd go fucking insane if we had to do Fafnir every day while it is in NA hours or watch Tiamat like a hawk.

.................................................. .......wtf server are you on?

Cerberus!

There was a third NA power that reached "far endgame" (ie Tiamat, Vrtra, Jorm) status but it broke and their core absorbed by us and the other linkshell.

[aurik]

Cerberus!

There was a third NA power that reached "far endgame" (ie Tiamat, Vrtra, Jorm) status but it broke and their core absorbed by us and the other linkshell.

So I guess all your claims are based on a server where competition is nonexistent, ie Atomos and Cerberus.

[Demetrios]

Cerberus!

There was a third NA power that reached "far endgame" (ie Tiamat, Vrtra, Jorm) status but it broke and their core absorbed by us and the other linkshell.

So I guess all your claims are based on a server where competition is nonexistent, ie Atomos and Cerberus.

There is competition for ground kings, but most NA LSes are too afraid/too lazy/too apathetic to camp due to the botting aura surrounding both my LS and the other.

I'm not sure what to say about Tiamat, they simply just don't try. Sure, the Japanese get a few, but if it pops in NA time it may be up for a few hours before either LS touches it. A lot of people on Cerberus seem content with Limbus/Dynamis/Sky and not having to deal with claim wars.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Shutup. Seriously. You lose and I'll say why.

Meriting: Warriors already get about 15k/hr in new areas. Jobs like PLD, THF, and DRK would go INSANE if they were offered that kind of exp. How is that not broken, and how does that not illustrate how imbalanced the jobs are already? Two of your ideas on how better gear than sky would break the game down.

YES THE JOBS ARE UNBALANCED. Guess which jobs have access to RoZ imba gear and which don't? HMMMM. Dumbass. And I know for a fact that given the right setup a DRK can contribute and make 15k/hour. Most people don't give it a chance though.

Assault: Assault is already shown itself to be very dynamic like sea fights. For example, blowing up boulders with mines, making Mamool Ja throw their weapons at untargetable doors to open them. New equipment won't make those fights undynamic.

It would break some of them, not all but some. Assault is a unique thing.

Missions: All the city missions are easy; RoZ missions are easy(w/o introduction of new gear). CoP missions are hard and will remain hard because they're level capped. ToAU missions involve no fighting, can't say yet.

You said something good about CoP, even if it was by mistake
Missions are easy because they are meant to be experienced by many, they're like the main plot of other FF games.

Job imbalance: I'll just reitorate this. Jobs are unbalanced. There's a reason people put up exp comments that say MNK pt or WAR pt only. Thats because the other jobs aren't as useful for meriting. There's a reason people use a lot of BLMs for HNM fights and BCNMs because BLMs deal a crapload of damage whenever they want to, other jobs can't do that.

MNK and WAR pts are not the only way to go, they are just more reliable because they are the easy jobs.

Thats not why people use BLMs. Its because they deal a crapload of damage without getting close to the mob and giving tons of TP, many other jobs can do a crapload of damage as well dumbass. Very few mobs are not damagable by other jobs. And people who now do BLM/SMN onry on Fafhogg are 100% dumbasses. Those guys were always beatable with melees.

[epigram]

There is competition for ground kings, but most NA LSes are too afraid/too lazy/too apathetic to camp due to the botting aura surrounding both my LS and the other.

Or just don't give a damn.

[Mysterio]

I still think in majority of DD scenarios a SMN > BLM merely on the hate and TP issues, SMN's dont have to hold back, whereas BLM would.

[Nikko]

apathetic = just don't give a damn

[Demetrios]

There is competition for ground kings, but most NA LSes are too afraid/too lazy/too apathetic to camp due to the botting aura surrounding both my LS and the other.

Or just don't give a damn.

I'm sure there are a ton of people in IonStorm that would like E bodies, Dalms, etc. I've yet to see them at a Fafnir camp or even attempt Jormungand or Tiamat. Hell even one of their members bought Herald Gaiters for 80 million gil. There's desire there, but apparently no motivation.

(epigram is a former member of my LS, from Cerberus)

[netz]

I'm not sure what to say about Tiamat, they simply just don't try. Sure, the Japanese get a few, but if it pops in NA time it may be up for a few hours before either LS touches it. A lot of people on Cerberus seem content with Limbus/Dynamis/Sky and not having to deal with claim wars.

A FEW HOURS?

Holy fuck.

Tiamat is lucky if she isn't claimed in 10 minutes after pop, if not immediately since one of the JP LSes on this server occasionally posts a hold party at the spawn. For hours. Upon hours. Really. It doesn't matter what time of the day it is, either; they've got people who can do it.

I'm impressed by your server.

The scenario described by aurik earlier, with 3-10 hour daily campathons + sea/sky farming at various intervals + limbus + dynamis is pretty standard here... I'm lucky to still have a little bit of sanity left :D

[Flarega]

If you think about it even, my douchie friend, addition of new more powerful gear could actually put jobs that normally get the shaft on par with warriors and monks. For example a 2-3 attack scythe with maybe 70~ damage would make DRK parties feasible. Giving THF equipment that enhances SA damage, or another THF JSE that gives huge boosts to THF DEX and STR/atk.

Introduction of new gear would even be able to balance the jobs. Unfortunately square enix has no idea what stats are good for which jobs, and whenever a job gets strong stupid people yell for them to be nerfed.

And I was mainly talking about BLM in BCNMs, not HNMs there.

[Lordwafik]

Demetrios I cant really see you saying to BLM "Dont you really want a novio earring? Or an ariole?" as if you can just farm sea for a few hours and pop a "quick JoL" and a "Quick AV" and get them, and as if they have a high drop rate.

Sky, you can do a quick genbu right after killing his 100% drop item NMs, and get a garunteed 1x Abj maybe 2, various synth materials, and a peice of Shinra gear. You cant just be like "Hey let's go do a quick JoL, I dont have a novio, anyone up for it?". Because what you're asking is, "Hey guys wanna spend potentially 3 months of your life slaving over sea and it's shitty drop rates, maybe we'll get the items on first go if we're lucky, and then gather 30-40 people for JoL, and watch it maybe drop only a Love Halberd?".

+

Wyrms were released when CoP was released. I remember poking vrtra after the patch but before CoP came out.

I didnt know you had the ability to see things before they were out.

http://na.square-enix.com/ffxi/evolution/

See september and october.

[Demetrios]

Demetrios I cant really see you saying to BLM "Dont you really want a novio earring? Or an ariole?" as if you can just farm sea for a few hours and pop a "quick JoL" and a "Quick AV" and get them, and as if they have a high drop rate.

Sky, you can do a quick genbu right after killing his 100% drop item NMs, and get a garunteed 1x Abj maybe 2, various synth materials, and a peice of Shinra gear. You cant just be like "Hey let's go do a quick JoL, I dont have a novio, anyone up for it?". Because what you're asking is, "Hey guys wanna spend potentially 3 months of your life slaving over sea and it's shitty drop rates, maybe we'll get the items on first go if we're lucky, and then gather 30-40 people for JoL, and watch it maybe drop only a Love Halberd?".

I wouldn't compare getting a Novio Earring to geting anything from Tier 2 sky gods. I'd say it's more like getting a defending ring or Ridill from a ground king. At some point an end game LS is going to go after those items, but they're specifically for tank and melee jobs. Novio earring is that insane and rare item for BLMs. We've had decent luck on JoL I guess, 3 earrings for 3 kills. It made our time in sea worthwhile.

Edit: JoL does NOT take 30-40 people to kill. He's maybe a notch higher than Kirin. 18+6 of the ideal jobs could do this fight with relative ease.

I go to sky to get Haidates, Crimson legs, and Osodes. Besides a few various N abjurations, the rest of it is really shit. If I really want to make money for the shell we do Ouryu, Vrtra, and Bahamut #2 to fill the coffer.

I've never implied quick. I said it's bullshit to think that it takes 6 months to farm a JoL pop set. Sure, the first people doing it (without the nice guides posted on KI and livejournal) may have taken that long, but once you get efficient at it 1-2 weeks is not unreasonable. People think that the 6 month claim is true, hell one guy in this thread said one year to see an item from sea. Both are huge exaggerations.

[DrObvious]

...if you ACTUALLY think PCC > Torques you are retarded beyond belief. The ONLY ones where this might be the case is Axe and H2H since CHR and MND aren't exactly important. And even then, I say nowai.

I agree with Nny. You know, some people use attack food, in which case you want accuracy gear.

And here's an already existing item that is equippable by drks that comes close to the torques: http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/1797

Some of you people talk like the torques are the greatest thing since sliced bread.

1 skill = .9 ACC as I've proved in one of the previous threads. For Warrior atleast, that means +6 ACC.

Considering the few pieces that ACC gear can be raised in without giving up something better (Body with Haub series and Togi, Rings with Snipers, and Neck Slot), I'd glady give up the meager +7 ATK for +4 ACC. With 700+ ATK, 7 ATK won't do that much whereas 4 ACC will.