AV: Nobody Cares About Him Anymore...

[epigram]

Sorry I was charming shit at a rostrum run and didn't read it through. Probably why my GRE scores weren't great :/ Good enough for grad school though :D

Yeah cerberus is pretty apathetic. It was a drama hotbead for a while but after WW and KoN decided it was easier to share (or at least keep their members sane)

A lot of people don't like each other between the ls's but for the most part KI isn't a drama-rama like other servers.

PM broke up, I don't know why, or can really say why, since I left the ls before then. I just do social ls and work my relic, I'll eventually need help getting my fragment and attestation, but I don't think I've pissed off enough people to keep from getting help, well maybe elien, but it's elien.

[Not Kuno]

Wyrms were released when CoP was released. I remember poking vrtra after the patch but before CoP came out.

I didnt know you had the ability to see things before they were out.

http://na.square-enix.com/ffxi/evolution/

See september and october.

I knew I wasn't crazy! I asked on vent and people agreed that they came out the same time as CoP but I was almost certain they werent. <3

[Jiyo]

I think we've all come to the agreement that drops are shitty lol...

I don't know why so many -hate- it so much though, I think its a good break from the montonous farming that sky is, just my opinion. I mean, instead of low drop rates, you have 3+ competing linkshells instead. Also, timers could be down and you have to wait 6 hours for a pop. ALSO there are gil sellers that farm the pop NMs now too (at least on Titan, damn them at ulli).

Each god fight is the same really, genbu, byakko, suzaku, seiryu. You have your tank pt pop it, and just hold it in one spot. Sometimes you gota do a invinc or SB for seiryu/suzaku, but thats really it. Sky is sooooo boring to me, i go to get points and maybe ill bid on an item sometimes, but thats it. Kirin is only different one, cept you have to fight the boring gods before him again.

Thing about sky drops with me is that I see so many with them now. Like eevverryy person and their mom has a KO and/or full god gear, just not as rare anymore. It feels nice to be one of the few or see one of the few who has a piece of sea gear, because you know you or that person worked really hard for it.

I like the fights in sea, much more "action" if you will. We started doing something new with J Of Fortitude and it was really fun. Instead of killing his grahs right away, we'd leave them out and make our blm army sub nin, and just full out nuke Fort even with reflect still up. It was a blast, we'd have the blms kiting and tanking, trying to keep shadows up, running all over the place. Kills were a lot faster too lol... J of Faith is another interesting one. I say interesting because it can actually be a challenge and be a problem for us at times. Unlike sky gods where they are really fucking easy and dont need to pay the utmost attention, sea gods/demi gods can give you a little fun.

Yeah i know most of you will say "fuck that, forget that bullshit stuff i want my drops EASY!", and hey, who doesn't lol. I go to sea (or did, kinda on a break from game now) because its fun to me, even though I know I wouldn't be getting items I wanted, I go. Even though I know i could easily get items I want in sky I rather go to sea because its actually fun and not like a monotonous job i'm going to.

Lot of you people just seem to focus on the drops, when that isn't all the expansion was made for...I dunno maybe you types were hoping for cop to introduce a lot of sky-ish drops so you could increase your e-peen or whatever, but its getting kinda old... some of ya get so worked up about how CoP is so omgwtf bad when ya only focusing on drops from sea. ENMS are awesome, granddragons are uhh ok...the missions, I enjoyed some, some I hated (snoll/airship), and there was other items/armors introduced with cop, cant forget that stuff. Yeah i know dragon talon comes from fafnir but forget that >_> need uh buffalo hides so i can make some barone stuff...yeah...

Increased drops would be really sweet, and figuring out how to kill AV would even be better, but hey, for now I'm happy with the way sea is and I like the fights.



Except Temperance, he can go burn in hell. I feel so sorry for you melees... "HEY LOOK IM IMMUNE TO EVERYTHING BUT SLASHING NOW LOL.....NOW IM IMMUNE TO EVERYTHING BUT PIERCING LAWL"

[Lordwafik]

Unlike you, the majority of people on this planet like to receive a reward for their efforts, this is the exact reason why there are so few full time voluntary associations, and so many careers out there that pay.
Would you go to work for the fun of it and not get paid? If not, that's exactly how people are viewing sea at the moment. Sea , sure, it's fun after you killed the jailer once, but like how you said, every genbu fight is the same, nothing different about sea, the fights are the same and you know what to expect. The difference is, genbu will reward you for the time you put in, and Jailer of Justice will take a shit on your face and smear it into your nostrils.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Wyrms were released when CoP was released. I remember poking vrtra after the patch but before CoP came out.

I didnt know you had the ability to see things before they were out.

http://na.square-enix.com/ffxi/evolution/

See september and october.

I knew I wasn't crazy! I asked on vent and people agreed that they came out the same time as CoP but I was almost certain they werent. <3

Whoa... I have no idea where I got that memory from then wierd.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Unlike you, the majority of people on this planet like to receive a reward for their efforts, this is the exact reason why there are so few full time voluntary associations, and so many careers out there that pay.
Would you go to work for the fun of it and not get paid? If not, that's exactly how people are viewing sea at the moment. Sea , sure, it's fun after you killed the jailer once, but like how you said, every genbu fight is the same, nothing different about sea, the fights are the same and you know what to expect. The difference is, genbu will reward you for the time you put in, and Jailer of Justice will take a shit on your face and smear it into your nostrils.

Oh.

and as for "nothing different about sea, the fights are the same and you know what to expect." JoFaith always has some nice surprises for our ls. Ix'Mnk can be toned up if he's getting too boring. Prudence is just wierd. Justice is ALWAYS a blast (pun semi-intended.) Temperance is unlike anything else and ends up being fun. All melees can use 2 different damage types in some way or another, some all three. The fights are so different they remain fun. Sky fights are so the same they get boring.

[Veli]

LOL@ people who kill Tiamat,Jorm,Vrtra as soon as they pop. IMO they all have shitty drops.

[epigram]

CoP's HNM theme was more effort for less reward. Now, the jailors certainly do reward you. They give you rare items, some are marginally the *best*, but for a non-hardcore ls that does sky, it certainly isn't a real alternative, and honestly a disapointment. Now if you already have everything then sea is the ultimate grind, and will take you well over a year or so to cap out on items.

So sea has it's place, it's just a bit of a disapointment when we expected another sky, and got, well sea.

[Tom Chambers]

Unlike you, the majority of people on this planet like to receive a reward for their efforts, this is the exact reason why there are so few full time voluntary associations, and so many careers out there that pay.
Would you go to work for the fun of it and not get paid?

Well...you're already paying just to play the game, so the analogy doesn't stand that well. You're putting in work? Oookay, but you're paying to work so obviously something is different already.

Here's the simple fact: If it wasn't for ego this game wouldn't exist- I daresay no MMORGs would. People don't always take Cloud to level 99 and then beat the game, and in NBA Street the only reason you'd cap your player is play other people who have done the same (competition= fun and ego).

So, acknowledging that ego is a big part of the equation of this game, people like having "better" gear that few others have. Sky gear at this point is a foregone conclusion. If you're a serious endgame player, you have most, if not all, of the sky gear that you'd like to have. The 'rare' stuff is found on kings or on jailers/AV. You're chances of getting either are low for different reasons (you shouldn't need me to spell them out).

Some people prefer the sea stuff (which no one has because OMG SEA SUX), and some people prefer the kings stuff (which alot of people don't have because OMG THEY BOT). If you spent the time you spend in DA, VoS, and BD every day in Sea, I'm sure you'd see the rewards would be about the same, because you'll go days without claiming even an NQ (not counting Adaman), or weeks without an HQ. It all evens out.

I don't blame people for prefering DA cause you're only paying attention 5 minutes of the 3 hour window. You can do other stuff. But in the same regard, don't rag on other people for being freaks who don't like to be 'paid' for their 'work' because they're not as lazy/don't have as much homework.

[Lordwafik]

you act like sky gods cant be "toned up" either. Ever done naked genbu, or minimum parties, 12 man gods etc instead of zerg rushing them? Takes longer but it's still fun.

Half the fun of killing the monster, is seeing what reward it's gonna have at the end.

The way I see it, Sea is like a lottery ticket, you can keep scratching at it all day, but there's a low chance you'll come out with something amazing, more often than not you'll come out with nothing, or a booby prize of 5$ (lol jailer weapon).

Wheras I see sky, as I see any other offline video game. Fight monsters, fight demi boss on the way to mega boss, kill megaboss, get reward. And what's that? Get rewarded on every step of the way.

[Xavier]

Would you go to work for the fun of it and not get paid?

Well...you're already paying just to play the game, so the analogy doesn't stand that well. You're putting in work? Oookay, but you're paying to work so obviously something is different already.

You're now paying to have fun. I don't think I've ever had fun in Sea.

I'd put Limbus outside of Sea as a different system.

[Maxxthepenguin]

you act like sky gods cant be "toned up" either. Ever done naked genbu, or minimum parties, 12 man gods etc instead of zerg rushing them? Takes longer but it's still fun.

Most people just want to get it over with. I'm saying Ix'Mnk can be toned up with a harder monster with higher drop rates. I'm all for making things a challenge for yourself, but most people aren't. They, like you, care about the phat lewt above all.

Half the fun of killing the monster, is seeing what reward it's gonna have at the end.

No I know people who jump at the opportunity to do the Promathia fight because its so damn fun. I jump at the opportunity to do certain jailers. I cant get enough of Justice

The way I see it, Sea is like a lottery ticket, you can keep scratching at it all day, but there's a low chance you'll come out with something amazing, more often than not you'll come out with nothing, or a booby prize of 5$ (lol jailer weapon).

Wheras I see sky, as I see any other offline video game. Fight monsters, fight demi boss on the way to mega boss, kill megaboss, get reward. And what's that? Get rewarded on every step of the way.

Except sky isnt fun to many people. It was interesting to explore and learn, but the fights themselves? Meeeeeh

[Xavier]

I'm sure as a DRK the fights probably weren't that fun. Standing in the corner w/ flag up the entire time does tend to get boring. But that can't possibly be restricted to sky alone.

[Lordwafik]

Unlike you, the majority of people on this planet like to receive a reward for their efforts, this is the exact reason why there are so few full time voluntary associations, and so many careers out there that pay.
Would you go to work for the fun of it and not get paid?

Well...you're already paying just to play the game, so the analogy doesn't stand that well. You're putting in work? Oookay, but you're paying to work so obviously something is different already.

True, you're paying to do this instead of getting paid to do it, HOWEVER, at the end you are getting "paid" for it, the rewards off the HNM/NM themselves are your payment for the time invested. Stop taking everything said for face value.

Now imagine going to "Work" (see : camp NM or fight a lotto pop NM) , and at the end of the day(after the monster dies), the boss says(the monster drops) "Hmmmm Nah, im keeping it all for me, nothing for any of you people who came" (dropped nothing).

They, like you, care about the phat lewt above all.

Once again, how is this a bad thing? They wanted to be rewarded with what they put their efforts into.

Sure, the fight is fun after 1 or 2 or 3 times, but after that, you know what's gonna happen, you want it dead and over with so you can see what's gonna drop and when the drama is gonna start over who got what.

[Maxxthepenguin]

I'm sure as a DRK the fights probably weren't that fun. Standing in the corner w/ flag up the entire time does tend to get boring. But that can't possibly be restricted to sky alone.

When I did sky I was the leader of the melee party.

[Tom Chambers]

Nine hours camping kings will often enough net you nothing at all. Nine hours in Sea will probably give you a couple torques. Another nine hours and you claimed Faf and got some nice things. Another nine hours in Sea and you have another couple of torques, maybe a cape or two.

Now, keeping in mind we're playing for ego in one way or another, whether you like that weskit more than that torque is a personal opinion, but how many people have weskits and how many people have torques? Rarity of items goes along way for ego in an MMORG. And what are we playing for again? Punishment is very subjective here.

Jailer rewards are akin to king rewards in difficulty and rarity as far as the design goes (Player preference and sheer time released makes king rewards more common in reality).

Limbus rewards are akin to Sky and Dynamis (god set + AF).

[Lordwafik]

Nine hours camping kings will often enough net you nothing at all. Nine hours in Sea will probably give you a couple torques. Another nine hours and you claimed Faf and got some nice things. Another nine hours in Sea and you have another couple of torques, maybe a cape or two.

Now, keeping in mind we're playing for ego in one way or another, whether you like that weskit more than that torque is a personal opinion, but how many people have weskits and how many people have torques? Rarity of items goes along way for ego in an MMORG. And what are we playing for again? Punishment is very subjective here.

Jailer rewards are akin to king rewards in difficulty and rarity as far as the design goes (Player preference and sheer time released makes king rewards more common in reality).

Limbus rewards are akin to Sky and Dynamis (god set + AF).

Kings are gay, and kings arent anything to do with sea. Sky is the equivelance to Sea, and nothing else. Sky and Sea are both oranges, Kings are Apples, CoP's 3 kings were the 3 wyrms, which are also the apples.

9 hours of camping sky can get you at least a ro'maeve water, a few god pop items, heck maybe enough to even pop 1-3 gods, maybe more.
Our last 9 hour sea session got us :

1x Temperance axe
2x Fortitude axe
dot.

We did this multiple times later, eventually the LS ended up with 2x Fort torques, 1x Temperance axe, 2x Faith h2h.

Nothing else. the amount of time farming the 12x Ghrah chip x2, giving us no torques was lame, after farming almost 7 stacks of chips for 2x torques, meh.

Torques arent 100% drops, virtues arent 100% drops, only thing that's 100% is the weapons, which most people think are complete junk. Some weapons are amazing, or have amazing potential (temperance axe) , but given to a job that's hardly ever allowed in the front lines, making it worthless again.

[Tom Chambers]

Kings are gay, and kings arent anything to do with sea. Sky is the equivelance to Sea, and nothing else. Sky and Sea are both oranges, Kings are Apples, CoP's 3 kings were the 3 wyrms, which are also the apples.

They're zones unlocked by missions and have popped NMs. Okay. But comparing time vs. reward, quite clearly jailers and comparable to kings. And quite clearly, Limbus is a mesh of Dynamis and Sky as far as rewards go.

I understand it's not what we expected, but there you have it.

[layoneil]

But comparing time vs. reward, quite clearly jailers and comparable to kings.

the focus/effort needed for kings is a lot less than what you need constantly running around in Sea.

i never spent 3 hours camping kings, between every window i get to watch TV/anime, play another game, shower, eat, etc, etc.

because i know how to use my time, kings don't feel like a waste of time, even if i don't claim.

you would only equate them if you were a douche that wasted away staring at darters between windows.

[Lordwafik]

Nothing CoP threw at us time:reward wise is comparable to the kings. Challenge wise they threw us 3 new wyrms to be the kings, however on the reward side of view, the items from the harder CoP kings are nowhere near as good as the items dropped from the lesser , weaker, zilartian kings.

I have a feeling ToaU is going to add a new king system that'll drop items wayyyyyyy better than what zilart had to offer, and if not way better, instead of upgrading over, they'll just sidegrade the items, make them extremely desirable, but have alternate stats on them.