AV: Nobody Cares About Him Anymore...

[Lockecole]

HELLO, THIS IS A CHOOSE YOUR OWN ADVENTURE POST. IF YOU'D LIKE TO ENGAGE IN MEANINGFUL, ALBEIT AT THIS POINT CONDENSCENDING, DISCUSSION ABOUT THE SEA, SKY, KINGS COMPARISON, TURN TO PAGE 1. IF YOU'D LIKE TO HAVE YOUR OWN SHITTY ARGUING SKILLS THROWN BACK IN YOUR FACE TO EXHIBIT HOW IT PROVES NOTHING AND ISN'T WORTH A SHIT, TURN TO PAGE 2.

PAGE 1-

Am I cheerleader or something? Is this like a Lakers-Kings rivalry? I'd have to concede? Get your head out of your ass.

Sea is like Sky in that're zones unlocked by missions and they have popped NMs. That's it. That's where the comparison ends. I know, I know, there there, you really wanted the comparison to go on, but guess what- SE didn't. They heard people complaining about Kings and how they were botted, and they still thought the gear from them should be rare. So the next time they wanted to make rare gear, they decided to do through difficult missions and low drop rates. Viola! Now the gear is just as rare, but the players don't have botting JPs who hold Fafnir for 6 hours to get the window in Tokyo time to blame, they only have their lazy selves! What an ingenius solution!

But we have Septimus over here: No! I don't want the gear to be rare! I don't want it to be in Sea, I want Sea to be comparable to Sky, even though it's not!








PAGE 2-

Stop comparing sea to sky- they are two very different activities. Compare sea to kings. Oh, but then you will have to concede that kings is a failure.

Lol Kings is possibly, game design wise, the hugest failure out of anything Ive ever seen in a game. Irony of it is that EVERYONE camps them and everyone gets the gear, therefore getting the gear apparently is the cool thing to do to keep up with the Joneses so everyone camps. E.Body is pimp because its rare, and because everyone wants it, not because it adds 3% to your parser.

Edit:Ooops

[FFXIFlux]

My point was that for reward vs. ratio Sea and Kings are almost identical, but you hear alot more bitching and moaning about Sea. But I think last night me and Wafik and Lockecole figured out it was just plain hypocrisy/laziness.

Stop comparing sea to kings- they are two very different activities. Compare sea to sky. Oh, but then you will have to concede that sea is a failure.

I think you can safely compare sea to kings. Kings are a failure as well. As are wyrms. Fortunately we have besieged to keep us occupied now!

[Raineer]

HELLO, THIS IS A CHOOSE YOUR OWN ADVENTURE POST. IF YOU'D LIKE TO ENGAGE IN MEANINGFUL, ALBEIT AT THIS POINT CONDENSCENDING, DISCUSSION ABOUT THE SEA, SKY, KINGS COMPARISON, TURN TO PAGE 1. IF YOU'D LIKE TO HAVE YOUR OWN SHITTY ARGUING SKILLS THROWN BACK IN YOUR FACE TO EXHIBIT HOW IT PROVES NOTHING AND ISN'T WORTH A SHIT, TURN TO PAGE 2.

PAGE 1-

Am I cheerleader or something? Is this like a Lakers-Kings rivalry? I'd have to concede? Get your head out of your ass.

Sea is like Sky in that're zones unlocked by missions and they have popped NMs. That's it. That's where the comparison ends. I know, I know, there there, you really wanted the comparison to go on, but guess what- SE didn't. They heard people complaining about Kings and how they were botted, and they still thought the gear from them should be rare. So the next time they wanted to make rare gear, they decided to do through difficult missions and low drop rates. Viola! Now the gear is just as rare, but the players don't have botting JPs who hold Fafnir for 6 hours to get the window in Tokyo time to blame, they only have their lazy selves! What an ingenius solution!

But we have Septimus over here: No! I don't want the gear to be rare! I don't want it to be in Sea, I want Sea to be comparable to Sky, even though it's not!










PAGE 2-

Stop comparing sea to sky- they are two very different activities. Compare sea to kings. Oh, but then you will have to concede that kings is a failure.

you need to get laid

page 2: omg kings are a failure, i guess you win

now concede the sky is blue and i win because i said so

[Septimus]

HELLO, THIS IS A CHOOSE YOUR OWN ADVENTURE POST. IF YOU'D LIKE TO ENGAGE IN MEANINGFUL, ALBEIT AT THIS POINT CONDENSCENDING, DISCUSSION ABOUT THE SEA, SKY, KINGS COMPARISON, TURN TO PAGE 1. IF YOU'D LIKE TO HAVE YOUR OWN SHITTY ARGUING SKILLS THROWN BACK IN YOUR FACE TO EXHIBIT HOW IT PROVES NOTHING AND ISN'T WORTH A SHIT, TURN TO PAGE 2.

PAGE 1-

Am I cheerleader or something? Is this like a Lakers-Kings rivalry? I'd have to concede? Get your head out of your ass.

Sea is like Sky in that're zones unlocked by missions and they have popped NMs. That's it. That's where the comparison ends. I know, I know, there there, you really wanted the comparison to go on, but guess what- SE didn't. They heard people complaining about Kings and how they were botted, and they still thought the gear from them should be rare. So the next time they wanted to make rare gear, they decided to do through difficult missions and low drop rates. Viola! Now the gear is just as rare, but the players don't have botting JPs who hold Fafnir for 6 hours to get the window in Tokyo time to blame, they only have their lazy selves! What an ingenius solution!

But we have Septimus over here: No! I don't want the gear to be rare! I don't want it to be in Sea, I want Sea to be comparable to Sky, even though it's not!










PAGE 2-

Stop comparing sea to sky- they are two very different activities. Compare sea to kings. Oh, but then you will have to concede that kings is a failure.

Let me put your argument in perspective.

Tom Chambers "Guys! Driving in a pinto is better than walking."

Other people "But Pintos explode when they get in rear end collisions! Why not talk about pintos versus other cars?"

Tom Chambers "But Pintos are totally faster than walking."

If only we had non-pop HNMs developed in CoP that we could compair to ground kings... Maybe they could be huge, dragon-looking type things... Nope, nothing like that in CoP.

And you know what? For some odd reason you see people camping Fafnir, Adaman, and Behemoth every day well over two years after they were introduced, yet the amazingly superior sea remains almost always empty. Now which one of those is a failure?

[Faranim]

If every single NM in Sea dropped all of their items 100% of the time, maybe it would be comparable to Sky.

Maybe.

[Siatdiat]

Sea compares to ground hnms I think, and Limbus compares to Sky gods. however, Koenig and Adaman and Dhalms are always going to be more desired over the majority of items in Sea. If you think that the random mix and match bs of the torques/capes is valuable in comparison to the abjs off sky and ground gods, then I think your crazy. The torques could have been replaced by something better like an acc/att torque, racc/ratt torque, some stat torques for ws mod, and make them all obvious upgrades to spike necklace/pcharm switch combo. Im a blm and I know there is a point f extremely diminishing returns with ele skill, after a certain amount your back to m. att and trusty old INT to do as much damage as possible, but at the same time suicide blm tactics are fucking gay, I have 0 desire for a new earring, and everyone knows that if your a smart blm you lvl another job to reward, you may go to most events as blm but your still interested in drops for your melee job. Also, dont include any AV rewards until new AV is beaten, im sure the 1 person on all servers who has sash thinks Sea is a smash, but considering everyone who bought CoP paid for it, and alot of people, some who i know very well in game, got GM cockblocked on their WoJ attempt, I have to say the whole affair is bs and a slap in the face to even the most hardcore endgame players. Grats Taru Samurai/whatever other melee jobs on your Speed belt +2 ^^

Wall of text kind of sorry but got stuck in rant mode :wink:

[Tom Chambers]

Yay! I win!

[Demetrios]

Sea compares to ground hnms I think, and Limbus compares to Sky gods. however, Koenig and Adaman and Dhalms are always going to be more desired over the majority of items in Sea. If you think that the random mix and match bs of the torques/capes is valuable in comparison to the abjs off sky and ground gods, then I think your crazy. The torques could have been replaced by something better like an acc/att torque, racc/ratt torque, some stat torques for ws mod, and make them all obvious upgrades to spike necklace/pcharm switch combo. Im a blm and I know there is a point f extremely diminishing returns with ele skill, after a certain amount your back to m. att and trusty old INT to do as much damage as possible, but at the same time suicide blm tactics are fucking gay, I have 0 desire for a new earring, and everyone knows that if your a smart blm you lvl another job to reward, you may go to most events as blm but your still interested in drops for your melee job. Also, dont include any AV rewards until new AV is beaten, im sure the 1 person on all servers who has sash thinks Sea is a smash, but considering everyone who bought CoP paid for it, and alot of people, some who i know very well in game, got GM cockblocked on their WoJ attempt, I have to say the whole affair is bs and a slap in the face to even the most hardcore endgame players. Grats Taru Samurai/whatever other melee jobs on your Speed belt +2 ^^

Wall of text kind of sorry but got stuck in rant mode :wink:

And when you quit this game would you rather have a priceless 7% MAB earring to RMT or an Abyssal Earring to show for your work? Maybe ask everyone that quit for WoW if it's a good thing to have big major non rare ex items that you can pawn off to the Chinaman in order to buy gold.

[layoneil]

My point was that for reward vs. ratio Sea and Kings are almost identical, but you hear alot more bitching and moaning about Sea. But I think last night me and Wafik and Lockecole figured out it was just plain hypocrisy/laziness.

and your point fails.

if you concede that people complain more about Sea because of laziness, than you concede that Sea requires more effort since laziness is the reluctance to put forth the necessary effort.

time vs reward is an invalid comparison if you don't count effort. because time has no meaning unless you value what you do with that time.

2 people both work 40 hours a week, 2 people both make $25 an hour. one person does so by constantly running around outside sweating his brains out, the other person does so in an air-conditioned office surfing the internet.

time vs reward is the same but those 2 jobs are hardly the same. it's much easier to see which person has the better job. which person can afford to be lazier.

Stop comparing sea to sky- they are two very different activities.

i'll list a series of actions and you tell me what i'm talking about
1) kill normal mobs in order for an NM to pop
2) kill NMs that lotto pop off of step 1
3) kill normal mobs for pop items
4) kill NMs that are item popped from step 3
5) kill NM(s) that are item popped from step 4

tell me now if Sea, Sky or Kings fit those 5 actions.

Oh, but then you will have to concede that kings is a failure.

the kings have a problem that is different from the problems with Sea. Kings aren't perfect, there are some very bad things about it, but it's better than Sea and CoP wyrms, worse than Sky, Limbus, Assault, ENMs.

[Demetrios]

i'll list a series of actions and you tell me what i'm talking about
1) kill normal mobs in order for an NM to pop
2) kill NMs that lotto pop off of step 1
3) kill normal mobs for pop items
4) kill NMs that are item popped from step 3
5) kill NM(s) that are item popped from step 4

Sounds like Limbus to me. Especially the relatively harder Temenos if you want to have two tiers between a boss fight. Omega has one, but you're still killing instanced, lower tier NMs and mobs in order to get a pop item.

[Machazareel]

Bull. Shit.

[NynJa]

E.Body is pimp because its rare, and because everyone wants it, not because it adds 3% to your parser.

Is 5 STR, 5 DEX, 5 ACC and 5 ATK really going to add 3% to a parser (4 STR, 4 DEX, 3 ACC 3 ATK if you have Haub+1) ?? I really dont think so...

[layoneil]

If you say sea is a complete failure you have to include Limbus. Sea god armor comes from Limbus.

how dumb are you? the Jailer system is a complete failure, that's what people mean when they talk about Sea.

you can't even say for certain Apollyon and Temenos are even in Sea, you just pass through Sea on the way there.

Sounds like Limbus to me. Especially the relatively harder Temenos if you want to have two tiers between a boss fight. Omega has one, but you're still killing instanced, lower tier NMs and mobs in order to get a pop item.

nevermind, now i see how dumb you are.

[Lordwafik]

Sea compares to ground hnms I think, and Limbus compares to Sky gods. however, Koenig and Adaman and Dhalms are always going to be more desired over the majority of items in Sea. If you think that the random mix and match bs of the torques/capes is valuable in comparison to the abjs off sky and ground gods, then I think your crazy. The torques could have been replaced by something better like an acc/att torque, racc/ratt torque, some stat torques for ws mod, and make them all obvious upgrades to spike necklace/pcharm switch combo. Im a blm and I know there is a point f extremely diminishing returns with ele skill, after a certain amount your back to m. att and trusty old INT to do as much damage as possible, but at the same time suicide blm tactics are fucking gay, I have 0 desire for a new earring, and everyone knows that if your a smart blm you lvl another job to reward, you may go to most events as blm but your still interested in drops for your melee job. Also, dont include any AV rewards until new AV is beaten, im sure the 1 person on all servers who has sash thinks Sea is a smash, but considering everyone who bought CoP paid for it, and alot of people, some who i know very well in game, got GM cockblocked on their WoJ attempt, I have to say the whole affair is bs and a slap in the face to even the most hardcore endgame players. Grats Taru Samurai/whatever other melee jobs on your Speed belt +2 ^^

Wall of text kind of sorry but got stuck in rant mode :wink:

And when you quit this game would you rather have a priceless 7% MAB earring to RMT or an Abyssal Earring to show for your work? Maybe ask everyone that quit for WoW if it's a good thing to have big major non rare ex items that you can pawn off to the Chinaman in order to buy gold.

Once again, you talk about this earring as if you can just stroll into sea and go get one. At least the abyssal is 100%, and hey, everyone in that allience can go choose 1 earring to pick from that suits their job the most, instead of the many people who took months getting up to JoL, then the "Maybe" chance of getting an earring or not.

Not only that, Novio earring isnt dropped off a mission.

[NynJa]

Limbus is a part of CoP and Sea. You cant seperate the two of them. No matter how hard you try...

You still had to go through the same bullshit lvl cap missions (that was one of the arguments against sea) to get to Limbus.



Limbus is as much of sea, as is:
75% of ENM's, Mammet rematch, Ouryu + Bahamut BCNM's, CoP rings, two fucking EASY xp pages (cookbook and rivernewort), Apoc Nigh...

[Tom Chambers]

Well the exit polls are in and the concensus among the big three networks and Reuters is that I won- because that's all I care about, I'm just a-cheerin' and a-rootin' for CoP so much, I desperately want other people to love something that I really don't care about so much so that I don't even play the game anymore- but I'm back for quick clarification:

Sendoh, the last two things you quoted me on wasn't even a real argument from me. It was just a make-fun-of-crappy-logic-by-Septimus post. That said, yeah the gameplay is the same, but the time/reward ratio is not. And that's what we're talking about. People keep wanting to tell me Genbu+Byakko+Seiryu+Suzaku=Kirin and then tell me how Faith+DRG=Prucence and so on like they're making some awesome, earth-shatteringly obvious post that I just overlooked. I know they play the same, but quite obviously SE didn't want the reward vs. time to be the same...they wanted it to be like Kings. Rare gear, staying rare, without the botters and windows to worry about.

Also the running back and forth sweating for $25 an hour versus chilling reading BG for $25/hr makes sense, until you realize that you're actually paying SE for the luxury of doing this 'work'. Jailers require you to play the game you're paying for to get your low chance at a drop, Kings doesn't. If you equate playing the game to running around outside sweating and watching anime as sitting in an air-conditioned office...well dude, maybe you should stop playing the game, sounds like you have more fun with the anime.

But I won and that's all I care about because CoP is so near-and-dear to my heart that I just have to sit here mindlessly defending it. It can't possibly be that I'm questioning why one activity isn't seen as a failure where another is, even though the reward vs. time is the same. That can't possibly be why, I just wanna win this damn argument because it's so fucking critical to my non-FFXI playing existence.

[Lordwafik]

You can keep telling yourself you won, it doesnt mean it's true.

Im the king.
Im the king.
Im the king.


Wait, im not really the king, but if I say it over and over I am!

[Not Kuno]

Holy shit you're retarded. You do "work" in game. It's called trying to get pop items/pop shitty ix'gay for hours upon hours and then getting nothing in return. Oh wait you probably don't call menial stuff like that "work" but instead Lollypops and Rainbows.

[Tom Chambers]

Raineer said it and also it's on the bottom scroll on FoxNews. Fair and balanced, they say, so the proof is in the pudding.

Kuno- You just described Kings, but with less PLAYING THE GAME YOU PAY TO PLAY and more 'watching anime'. If you don't like it...maybe this isn't the game for you?

[Raineer]

Limbus is a part of CoP and Sea. You cant seperate the two of them. No matter how hard you try...

You still had to go through the same bullshit lvl cap missions (that was one of the arguments against sea) to get to Limbus.



Limbus is as much of sea, as is:
75% of ENM's, Mammet rematch, Ouryu + Bahamut BCNM's, CoP rings, two fucking EASY xp pages (cookbook and rivernewort), Apoc Nigh...

All those things are very good, I think most people are just pissed about the 'endgame' part of it. Bahamut? Yes, very awesome. But 99% of CoP's 'endgame' activity is sea, literally the water mobs in Al'teiu.

I don't understand how people seperate sea and sky as "very different activities". Sea is just sky without 100% trigger drops... that's the only fucking difference, that and the drops are much much better in sky.