AV: Nobody Cares About Him Anymore...

[Nagamaki]

Some people saying torques aren't better than Peacock doesn't mean its true. Peacock is better for jobs that cover a range of weapons, but as a MNK I much prefer my 299 HTH to a Peacock and a Promise Badge. There's all kinds of different gear and food because there's different ways to play the game, not the "Approved by BG Forums" way and the wrong way.

Shitloads of people say "CoP fails" when they mean "Jailers fail". There are serious flaws with every damn endgame activity, I'll get pissed off if Ix'DRK doesn't pop in 4 hours but at least I got a few merits, if another LS gets Faf or we get Faf and he drops shit, then I walk away with just fighting Faf one more time, or getting ToD one more time. Or if we compare to sky, sky was awesome when you could just go whenever and rape the triggers, and go do gods or Kirin whenever you wanted. Competing over the triggers and over the freaking ??? repop is so amazingly gay that its really not particularly easier to get people to Tu'lia than to Al'taieu these days (including pre-ToAU).

Speaking of ToAU, there's some good stuff here but any that has even vaguely experienced Besieged should have realized its completely retarded. 750 freaking people in Al Zhabi to kill the Mamool attack force that won't even load on your screen and depops with full HP because the server is too overloaded to even register damage until it dies? The expansion also needs way better exp spot balance, I had fun getting 25 merits in 4 days before anyone else figured why my LS had a permanent party in Bhaflau, but now there's 9 freaking parties there all the time.

Nothing wrong with being unhappy about various things in different expansions, but focusing on the flaws in one while ignoring the flaws in the others is pointless.

[BRP]

Okay lets look over this:

Al'teiru and the In The Name of Science quest: Good.
Sea, aka Jailers: Bad.
Limbus: Good.
Several story spin-of BCNM fights: Good.
Wyrms: Bad.
ENMs: Good.
CoP Dynamis: Bad.
Enchantment items: Good.
Storyline: Good.
Level-capped zones: Bad.
Brenner: Good.
Fellowship: Good.
Pop NMs: Good.
+3 new 70+ exp zones: Good.

It appears to me, it isn't so straight forward as "OMG COP SUCKS". CoP only failed in three (big) areas: new kings, new dynamis, and new sky(notice: RoZ's end-game + pop NMs). People hate CoP because it sucked at being RoZ. However, there was a lot of good in CoP. One can say it was bad for the end-game LS, but it wasn't bad for the casual end-game player.

[Vormav]

The expansion also needs way better exp spot balance, I had fun getting 25 merits in 4 days before anyone else figured why my LS had a permanent party in Bhaflau, but now there's 9 freaking parties there all the time.

Not to pick bones Nagamaki. I agree with the majority of your post, but this part is just not accurate. I got 17 merits in 3 days this weekend exping in 7 different spots, and I can think of 7 more I would have visited. There are ton of very usable XP camp in Mamook, Halvung, Caederva Mire, as well as Mount Z. I would definitely try to peek around some more.

[aurik]

Torques are no better than PCC, and PCC is 100 times easier to get even if you camp PCA.

What? I don't want to make this another MNK item derail, but 7 ATK is obviously more than double 3 ACC. Not doubly important, but obviously 3x2<7. If only there were other slots and equipment that we could compare this to to fully understand which one we'd choose! Oh wait! Ochiudo's/Bandomusha Kotes give double or more than double the atk that Noritsune Kotes give in acc. And which one is more useful/better?

Further, Faith is a 15-20% drop on his torque. You think it's 100 times easier to camp Argus, hoping for the drop, than it is to get 5 HQ euhvi organs and kill Faith t times? Are you fucking high?

This isn't even including things like the Love Torque or Justice Torque which are clearly way better than the PCC for their perspective weapon using jobs (or Justice Torque for anyone SATAing anything).

The difference might be small, like an...oh I don't know, E body, or say...95% of all the gear in the game, but it's still there.

First, it's less than double of 4 acc, get your shit right before you open your fucking mouth you stupid cunt.

And yes, some of us eat meat and therefore prioritize accuracy. As I said, it's not clear which is better, just like if I bothered to buy Noritsune I could make it work with my gear setup, because Noritsune isn't clearly better or worse than ochi/bando. Hey I know a monk that builds around Noritsune and she isn't gimp at all.

The difference between argus and faith is that I can camp argus alone--fuck I could bot him while I'm camping forums from work and nobody would be the wiser. Or I could rape the AH for a weekend, make 20m, and just buy the damn thing, which is exactly what I ended up doing.

For Faith, first I need 2-4 people to farm his organs. Then I need to get 12-18 people of the right jobs online and available at the same time. Then I need to convince them all to come to sea and risk their XP for my express benefit. Then we need to send 5 scouts for the pop point. Once we find the pop, we need to move the entire alliance to it and pray it doesn't move while we're enroute. Then we pop a single instance and fight it. It doesn't drop, so we've gotten nowhere and wasted a pop item, rinse and repeat. Sorry I don't hate my friends that much to force them to go through that for an item for which I can simply buy an equivalent.

[Lordwafik]

The expansion also needs way better exp spot balance, I had fun getting 25 merits in 4 days before anyone else figured why my LS had a permanent party in Bhaflau, but now there's 9 freaking parties there all the time.

a gigantic LOL @ this.

Have you only been to buffalo tickets?

Mount Zhaylom fits 4x pt
as does Buffalo tickets
caedvera holds 2 i think? Possibly more counting the ram spot, and I think Periqa too.

[Maxxthepenguin]

4 acc

If you want to be a bitch about it, its 3.6 ACC.

get your shit right before you open your fucking mouth you stupid cunt.

And my point with it being random is somebody had to have a reason to test the shit. Did somebody get a suppanomi and, using a sword, say "Oh, this feels more like 4.5 acc"?

[Nagamaki]

There's a good range of camps, but the xp rates you can get between them is extremely varied, and the best areas are really too small. In a game as centered on the exp grind as this, they really should think more and make the xp section of Bhaflau thickets huge and able to handle as many PTs as will come, instead of making it so tiny. Variety is good, but it should be a little more balanced.

And then there's the "drawback" of slowing down the awesomeness of 750 person besieged by xping in the strongholds. Getting pissed off about this is pretty retarded, but people on Seraph are pretty retarded too.

[Tom Chambers]

Torques are no better than PCC, and PCC is 100 times easier to get even if you camp PCA.

What? I don't want to make this another MNK item derail, but 7 ATK is obviously more than double 3 ACC. Not doubly important, but obviously 3x2<7. If only there were other slots and equipment that we could compare this to to fully understand which one we'd choose! Oh wait! Ochiudo's/Bandomusha Kotes give double or more than double the atk that Noritsune Kotes give in acc. And which one is more useful/better?

Further, Faith is a 15-20% drop on his torque. You think it's 100 times easier to camp Argus, hoping for the drop, than it is to get 5 HQ euhvi organs and kill Faith t times? Are you fucking high?

This isn't even including things like the Love Torque or Justice Torque which are clearly way better than the PCC for their perspective weapon using jobs (or Justice Torque for anyone SATAing anything).

The difference might be small, like an...oh I don't know, E body, or say...95% of all the gear in the game, but it's still there.

First, it's less than double of 4 acc, get your shit right before you open your fucking mouth you stupid cunt.

Aren't you the guy who linked to a thread on KI a couple months ago where two monks from Titan both independently verified that a Faith Torque gives the exact same amount of accuracy that Shura Haidate give you? Because the way the acc is calculated, 292+7 weapon skill is exactly the same as 292+7 acc? I'm pretty sure it was you, but either way: 'get your shit right before you open your fucking mouth you stupid cunt'. LMAO that's funny. Cunt lol.

For Faith, first I need 2-4 people to farm his organs. Then I need to get 12-18 people of the right jobs online and available at the same time. Then I need to convince them all to come to sea and risk their XP for my express benefit. Then we need to send 5 scouts for the pop point. Once we find the pop, we need to move the entire alliance to it and pray it doesn't move while we're enroute. Then we pop a single instance and fight it. It doesn't drop, so we've gotten nowhere and wasted a pop item, rinse and repeat. Sorry I don't hate my friends that much to force them to go through that for an item for which I can simply buy an equivalent.

Sounds like you might have a problem with HNMs. How's that Osode/Shura Togi working for you?

[Demetrios]

Okay lets look over this:

Al'teiru and the In The Name of Science quest: Good.
Sea, aka Jailers: Bad.
Limbus: Good.
Several story spin-of BCNM fights: Good.
Wyrms: Bad.
ENMs: Good.
CoP Dynamis: Bad.
Enchantment items: Good.
Storyline: Good.
Level-capped zones: Bad.
Brenner: Good.
Fellowship: Good.
Pop NMs: Good.
+3 new 70+ exp zones: Good.

It appears to me, it isn't so straight forward as "OMG COP SUCKS". CoP only failed in three (big) areas: new kings, new dynamis, and new sky(notice: RoZ's end-game + pop NMs). People hate CoP because it sucked at being RoZ. However, there was a lot of good in CoP. One can say it was bad for the end-game LS, but it wasn't bad for the casual end-game player.

Failure? Vrtra is huge cash cows that no one milks. Everytime we kill Vrtra is a garunteed 30-40 million gil. But the catch is no one camps him. We can kill it at our leisure, it's not like sky where you have to worry about camping Uli so the gilsellers don't get or spending 4 hours to get Ro'Maeve Water to drop. A single Ouryu -> Bahamut#2 progression can yield 40-80 million gil (or more if you're on a hyperinflated server) depending on your luck.

I don't think you can say Tiamat is a failure if everyone competes over it as if it were Fafnir. Jormungand is a failure, GREAT fight, but the JSE ores need have better uses than DRG JSE armor.

COP was not bad for end game. Bahamut#2 is the best BCNM ever made. Ouryu is a close second. The three COP rings and four COP earrings are well worth the time investment of the missions. Limbus is a biweekly event that we never skip. Almost everyone in an end game LS has some drop from one of the many force pop COP HNM/NMs like Rostrum Pumps or Uggaligjweilghwepeth necklace. I go to the level 75 cap ENMs once week. Until ToAU came out, Uleguerand Range was the most exciting EXP zone in the game. It's just about the same amount of content as RoZ.

[aurik]

And my point with it being random is somebody had to have a reason to test the shit. Did somebody get a suppanomi and, using a sword, say "Oh, this feels more like 4.5 acc"?

If you want to be a bitch about torque accuracy bonus, it's either 3 or 4 less than PCC, and the actual amount varies depending on your raw skill. Given an even distribution of raw skill numbers, it's going to be 4 less more often than 3 less.

The reason people test shit is because they want to be better at doing their job. The best upgrade anyone can do to improve their efficiency is to learn how the game works.

Following the sheep and doing what the sheep do only takes you so far.

[NynJa]

Then we pop a single instance and fight it. It doesn't drop, so we've gotten nowhere and wasted a pop item, rinse and repeat. Sorry I don't hate my friends that much to force them to go through that for an item for which I can simply buy an equivalent.

Well hawt damn, I can employ that to anything:
We go to dragon's aery, and sit around for three hours scratching our balls watching anime, then some gimp pld using MrArgus claims Fafnir, and his LS kills it zerging with 30 ppl (though they occasionally wipe at 1% lol). Now I've wasted 4 hours of me and my friends lives, and we've accopmplished nothing.

Yet, ppl will do that THREE times per day (faf/adaman/behemoth). Yet, people do it for Fafnir for the 1-5% drop rate of Ridill. My LS had 95% of the claims for three months straight (December to February), and we saw ZERO Ridills. Even those 5% of claims we did not get, no Ridill dropped there either.


But people like their friends enough to waste 3-9 hours every day to watch kings spawn purple to people using 3rd party software, but they wont spend 15 minutes tracking down Faith's ??? and kill it ??
How the fuck does that make sense ?!?

[Maxxthepenguin]

And my point with it being random is somebody had to have a reason to test the shit. Did somebody get a suppanomi and, using a sword, say "Oh, this feels more like 4.5 acc"?

If you want to be a bitch about torque accuracy bonus, it's either 3 or 4 less than PCC, and the actual amount varies depending on your raw skill. Given an even distribution of raw skill numbers, it's going to be 4 less more often than 3 less.

So... the people who said 3 less could have been right and you were just being an asshat and trying to say 'NO IM MORE RITE'?

The reason people test shit is because they want to be better at doing their job. The best upgrade anyone can do to improve their efficiency is to learn how the game works.

Oh I know how the game works, and I know 1 acc for every 10 amounts to almost nothing in real circumstances.

Following the sheep and doing what the sheep do only takes you so far.

I'm a DRK, since when was that following the sheep?

[Maxxthepenguin]

DP lawls

[aurik]

Then we pop a single instance and fight it. It doesn't drop, so we've gotten nowhere and wasted a pop item, rinse and repeat. Sorry I don't hate my friends that much to force them to go through that for an item for which I can simply buy an equivalent.

Well hawt damn, I can employ that to anything:
We go to dragon's aery, and sit around for three hours scratching our balls watching anime, then some gimp pld using MrArgus claims Fafnir, and his LS kills it zerging with 30 ppl (though they occasionally wipe at 1% lol). Now I've wasted 4 hours of me and my friends lives, and we've accopmplished nothing.

Yet, ppl will do that THREE times per day (faf/adaman/behemoth). Yet, people do it for Fafnir for the 1-5% drop rate of Ridill. My LS had 95% of the claims for three months straight (December to February), and we saw ZERO Ridills. Even those 5% of claims we did not get, no Ridill dropped there either.


But people like their friends enough to waste 3-9 hours every day to watch kings spawn purple to people using 3rd party software, but they wont spend 15 minutes tracking down Faith's ??? and kill it ??
How the fuck does that make sense ?!?

The primary differences being:

1) fafnir drops money loot
2) fafnir drops abjurations
3) if you get nidhogg you get the best 3 body armors in the game
4) ridill? Hello? How does faith torque in any way compare with ridill?
5) the amount of effort involved in camping fafnir is 1/1000th the effort involved in popping and killing faith.

There's a reason why you don't have to compete with ZergLS for faith pop points, and thats because faith fucking blows chunks compared to fafnir.

[Maxxthepenguin]

5) the amount of effort involved in camping fafnir is 1/1000th the effort involved in popping and killing faith.

Are you high? It takes 2 hours tops for a Faith pop with guaranteed claim, and much of that time you get exp and other pop items if you farm smartly.

[aurik]

And my point with it being random is somebody had to have a reason to test the shit. Did somebody get a suppanomi and, using a sword, say "Oh, this feels more like 4.5 acc"?

If you want to be a bitch about torque accuracy bonus, it's either 3 or 4 less than PCC, and the actual amount varies depending on your raw skill. Given an even distribution of raw skill numbers, it's going to be 4 less more often than 3 less.

So... the people who said 3 less could have been right and you were just being an asshat and trying to say 'NO IM MORE RITE'?

The reason people test shit is because they want to be better at doing their job. The best upgrade anyone can do to improve their efficiency is to learn how the game works.

Oh I know how the game works, and I know 1 acc for every 10 amounts to almost nothing in real circumstances.

[quote:8f2a9]Following the sheep and doing what the sheep do only takes you so far.

I'm a DRK, since when was that following like sheep?[/quote:8f2a9]

Tom Chambers is a failure of a monk who argues the importance of accuracy over, say, Walahra Turban, but then says oh it's not important if you get 7 attack.

Tom Chambers is a stupid cunt because he manages to quote my post stating it to be 4 less and yet analyzes it using 3 acc, as if the difference matters one bit.

Furthermore, my argument isn't that PCC is better. My argument is that PCC is comparable. You can't say with absolute certainty that one is better than the other, and you're a fucking blockhead if you don't see that PCC is about as good as torque.

Fact remains, the accuracy bonus is closer to 6 than to 7, which makes it more accurate to say it's 4 less, since we're talking about Torques (plural) not just Faith Torque on monks who happen to have max h2h merits.

Finally, learn to fucking read. I wasn't calling you a sheep. I was calling people who merely follow what they read on messageboards/guides and never apply critical thought to it followers of the sheep. You can judge whether you fit in that classification yourself.

[Lordender]

at this stage in the game 2+ years later there shouldn't be as high demand for kings. Kings are a damn joke for what they drop, compared to harder HNM's that don't drop shit.

[phlux]

Well hawt damn, I can employ that to anything:
We go to dragon's aery, and sit around for three hours scratching our balls watching anime, then some gimp pld using MrArgus claims Fafnir, and his LS kills it zerging with 30 ppl (though they occasionally wipe at 1% lol). Now I've wasted 4 hours of me and my friends lives, and we've accopmplished nothing.

Yet, ppl will do that THREE times per day (faf/adaman/behemoth). Yet, people do it for Fafnir for the 1-5% drop rate of Ridill. My LS had 95% of the claims for three months straight (December to February), and we saw ZERO Ridills. Even those 5% of claims we did not get, no Ridill dropped there either.


But people like their friends enough to waste 3-9 hours every day to watch kings spawn purple to people using 3rd party software, but they wont spend 15 minutes tracking down Faith's ??? and kill it ??
How the fuck does that make sense ?!?

lol@ accusing other people of botting

[NynJa]

1) Dragon Talon is 2.5m, Dragon Heart 170k, Dragon Heart 600k, Dragon Meat 80k, Balmung 2.5m (GOOD LUCK FINDING A BUYER). Wow, big loot table.
2) Nigga plz. A.Hn is found in Sky, A.Ft isnt worth uncursing, E.Hn can wipe my ass...N.Hd is the only real worthwhile Abju, and ppl dont even know what to do with those these days.
3) You dont get Nidhogg...
4) Its not a usefulness comparisant, I was refering to drop rate / ease of killing / claiming (or in Faith's case popping).
5) Then you must have issues popping and killing Faith. Its not brain surgery in sending 5 scouts to find the ???, then sending the other 12 people to that spot.

Faith blows chunks compared to Fafnir?? The only reason people are so fucking whipped by Fafnir is the chance (or lack thereof) in seeing Ridill drop.

[aurik]

5) the amount of effort involved in camping fafnir is 1/1000th the effort involved in popping and killing faith.

Are you high? It takes 2 hours tops for a Faith pop with guaranteed claim, and much of that time you get exp and other pop items if you farm smartly.

And it takes 10 minutes of my time to actually camp fafnir, and that's if he pops on last window, and I don't even have to barely pay attention during those 10 minutes either.