AV: Nobody Cares About Him Anymore...

[aurik]

1) Dragon Talon is 2.5m, Dragon Heart 170k, Dragon Heart 600k, Dragon Meat 80k, Balmung 2.5m (GOOD LUCK FINDING A BUYER). Wow, big loot table.
2) Nigga plz. A.Hn is found in Sky, A.Ft isnt worth uncursing, E.Hn can wipe my ass...N.Hd is the only real worthwhile Abju, and ppl dont even know what to do with those these days.
3) You dont get Nidhogg...
4) Its not a usefulness comparisant, I was refering to drop rate / ease of killing / claiming (or in Faith's case popping).
5) Then you must have issues popping and killing Faith. Its not brain surgery in sending 5 scouts to find the ???, then sending the other 12 people to that spot.

Faith blows chunks compared to Fafnir. The only reason people are so fucking whipped by Fafnir is the chance (or lack thereof) in seeing Ridill drop.

1) Dragon talon is 5m, dragon blood 300k, dragon heart 1.3, dragon meat 150k, dragon talon is 100%. Faith drops um...1st virtue? You planning on selling that?
2) Nigga plz, people still want a.ft, a.hn is still a great item and the fact that almost any mage can put it to use means we drop less of these than e.hn, and thanks for mentioning n.hd being an awesome abj because if not I was going to
3) You get nidhogg if you camp fafnir unless your mrargusses can only handle one target
4) K
5) The issue is getting 12 people of the right jobs online and willing to spend 2-3 hours for no personal gain and potentially no gain for me at the same time when I am personally more than capable of buying an equivalent off the AH. Maybe if I was a broke-ass gimp I'd have more incentive to prod people to do this for me, but in 24 man-hours I can easily make half the gil needed for PCC.

[NynJa]

1) Dragon talon is 5m, dragon blood 300k, dragon heart 1.3, dragon meat 150k, dragon talon is 100%. Faith drops um...1st virtue? You planning on selling that?
...
5) The issue is getting 12 people of the right jobs online and willing to spend 2-3 hours for no personal gain and potentially no gain for me at the same time when I am personally more than capable of buying an equivalent off the AH. Maybe if I was a broke-ass gimp I'd have more incentive to prod people to do this for me, but in 24 man-hours I can easily make half the gil needed for PCC.

You also play on a server with retarded prices...



1-Faith Torque is in no way shape or form equivalent to Peacock Charm.
2-If it takes you 2-3 hours to pop and kill Faith, once again, the problem is in your tactics, not how SE made sea.

[Demetrios]

Then we pop a single instance and fight it. It doesn't drop, so we've gotten nowhere and wasted a pop item, rinse and repeat. Sorry I don't hate my friends that much to force them to go through that for an item for which I can simply buy an equivalent.

Well hawt damn, I can employ that to anything:
We go to dragon's aery, and sit around for three hours scratching our balls watching anime, then some gimp pld using MrArgus claims Fafnir, and his LS kills it zerging with 30 ppl (though they occasionally wipe at 1% lol). Now I've wasted 4 hours of me and my friends lives, and we've accopmplished nothing.

Yet, ppl will do that THREE times per day (faf/adaman/behemoth). Yet, people do it for Fafnir for the 1-5% drop rate of Ridill. My LS had 95% of the claims for three months straight (December to February), and we saw ZERO Ridills. Even those 5% of claims we did not get, no Ridill dropped there either.


But people like their friends enough to waste 3-9 hours every day to watch kings spawn purple to people using 3rd party software, but they wont spend 15 minutes tracking down Faith's ??? and kill it ??
How the fuck does that make sense ?!?

The primary differences being:

1) fafnir drops money loot
2) fafnir drops abjurations
3) if you get nidhogg you get the best 3 body armors in the game
4) ridill? Hello? How does faith torque in any way compare with ridill?
5) the amount of effort involved in camping fafnir is 1/1000th the effort involved in popping and killing faith.

There's a reason why you don't have to compete with ZergLS for faith pop points, and thats because faith fucking blows chunks compared to fafnir.

THE UBER EFFICIENT WAY TO FARM JAILER OF FAITH:

Ok. I'm going to assume you have plenty of pop items already, because my mule has around 12 HQ Euvhi organs that were given to me by mages that were going after Relaxing earring. I'm going to assume you have 18 friends to come. Time it cost LS: 0.

1. Send 5 smart mages with /BLM to the five towers. This should take 5 minutes for Taru/Galka, 10 for Elvaan/Mithra, and maybe 15 for Hume (times assume you're good at Metal Gear Solid.) Time it cost LS: 15 minutes

2. Wait for the currently popped ??? to depop. Start a 15 minute timer. At most you will have to wait 14 minutes and 59 seconds, at the least you'll wait 1 second. Time it cost LS: 0-15 minutes

3. Identify which tower it repopped at, have all 5 of the mages escape, have the remaining 11 people sleep-train their way to the correct tower. Time it cost LS: 5-10 minutes depending on which tower

4. Depending on time left, kill the aggro on the second floor, or sleep and run to the pop spot and spawn it. Have your kiter keep it occupied for the 10 minutes while you kill the 2-3 Ghrahs and pots that you have aggroed. Time: 5-10 minutes

5. Zerg Jailer of Faith. We usually kill in in around 15 minutes, maybe 20 at the most if people are being dumb with Breakga. Time: 15-20 m inutes

Torques for me have shown to have around a 1/6 drop rate. This activity took all of an hour and ten minutes at the most. 7 hours of work for one torque. It's not all that worse than camping Fafnir if you're in an HNMLS that gets substancial amounts of gil from other means.

[Elcura]

5) the amount of effort involved in camping fafnir is 1/1000th the effort involved in popping and killing faith.

Are you high? It takes 2 hours tops for a Faith pop with guaranteed claim, and much of that time you get exp and other pop items if you farm smartly.

Maybe you misunderstood.

LS Member: Windows over guys, no pop.
LS M 1: AFK
LS M 2: AFK
LS M 3: Food, AFK
LS M 4: So a guy walked into a bar right...

Compared to

LS Member: Fuck, ??? isn't here...
5mins later
LS M 1: Not here either
3mins later
LS M 3: I found the ???
LS Member: Ok, let's get over there!
LS <sigh>
LS runs over to the ??? dodging aggro or killing it, doing whatever needs to be done to get to the ??? and pops xxx Jailor. After killing said Jailor
LS Member: Damn, weapon only
LS <sigh>
LS Member: Let's do that for the next 2-6 months guys
Smart LS M: I quit this game.

[NynJa]

LS Member: Windows over guys, no pop.
LS M 1: AFK
LS M 2: AFK
LS M 3: Food, AFK
LS M 4: So a guy walked into a bar right...

So you pay 15$ a month to AFK...

How about I make a game server with a 10$ monthly subscription and you can afk there :D

[Tom Chambers]

Tom Chambers is a failure of a monk who argues the importance of accuracy over, say, Walahra Turban, but then says oh it's not important if you get 7 attack.

You're missing 10 acc replacing an O Hat with a Turban, you're missing 3 with a Faith Torque over a PCC. Hmm.

Tom Chambers is a stupid cunt because he manages to quote my post stating it to be 4 less and yet analyzes it using 3 acc, as if the difference matters one bit.

If the difference didn't matter then why the fuck did you try to correct me? Wrongly, I might add again, because you can't remember the shit you yourself read and linked this forum to. Keep calling me names, dude, it really helps out; I'm sure people were on the fence til you called me a cunt a couple times, then nodded knowingly, understanding your argument was stronger than mine. We get that you can't do popped NMs for shit, or else you wouldn't be walking around in your SH+1 for xp, but don't blame it on anything or anyone other than yourself.

[aurik]

1-Faith Torque is in no way shape or form equivalent to Peacock Charm.
2-If it takes you 2-3 hours to pop and kill Faith, once again, the problem is in your tactics, not how SE made sea.

THE UBER EFFICIENT WAY TO FARM JAILER OF FAITH:

Ok. I'm going to assume you have plenty of pop items already, because my mule has around 12 HQ Euvhi organs that were given to me by mages that were going after Relaxing earring. I'm going to assume you have 18 friends to come. Time it cost LS: 0.

<snip>

Torques for me have shown to have around a 1/6 drop rate. This activity took all of an hour and ten minutes at the most. 7 hours of work for one torque. It's not all that worse than camping Fafnir if you're in an HNMLS that gets substancial amounts of gil from other means.

Nynja, Faith Torque is about equivalent to PCC for monk. 3 acc versus 7 attack is not exactly clear. I used to think Minuet Earring sucks, but as SE adds areas which are progressively more difficult to eat meat and hit well, I'm changing my opinion on the matter. Accuracy is becoming more important as KRT is relegated to a lv70-74 xp zone.

Demetrios, I don't know about you but since I don't say who gets to lot on ridill, I can't magically pull 12-18 people out of a hat to come help me in Sea. Lots of friends, just we're all busy doing our own things. When I do organize things (and I organize things once a week, at the same time) I make sure that we do productive things, and that everyone shares in the benefits. I can't justify taking people to sea, because it would be out of pure selfishness.

Furthermore, 18 people * 7 hours = 126 man-hours. Considering I can buy PCC for 20m gil, that's less than 100k per man-hour spent; pretty weak if you ask me.

[Tom Chambers]

And yeah no shit, I'm AFK from the game right now, I have been for like three months. Whoa, this is the best content yet! I can tell jokes and get food whenever, no annoying ??? pops to find at all! YES!! Way to go SE!!!

[Elcura]

LS Member: Windows over guys, no pop.
LS M 1: AFK
LS M 2: AFK
LS M 3: Food, AFK
LS M 4: So a guy walked into a bar right...

So you pay 15$ a month to AFK...

How about I make a game server with a 10$ monthly subscription and you can afk there :D

Cept I don't pay a game to be annoyed fustrated and pissed off, camping Fafnir or 3 kings actually gives you time to do something else, instead of paying to play something you aren't enjoying. Besides, as Sendoh said, if you wanna be the douche who stares at Darters for 30mins or thinks sea is a good way to spend your time, it's your 10$ man.

[aurik]

Tom Chambers is a failure of a monk who argues the importance of accuracy over, say, Walahra Turban, but then says oh it's not important if you get 7 attack.

You're missing 10 acc replacing an O Hat with a Turban, you're missing 3 with a Faith Torque over a PCC. Hmm.

I can't even believe you bother to defend this. You're wrong. You're so fucking wrong. Turban is god.

[quote:a2ecf]Tom Chambers is a stupid cunt because he manages to quote my post stating it to be 4 less and yet analyzes it using 3 acc, as if the difference matters one bit.

If the difference didn't matter then why the fuck did you try to correct me? Wrongly, I might add again, because you can't remember the shit you yourself read and linked this forum to. Keep calling me names, dude, it really helps out; I'm sure people were on the fence til you called me a cunt a couple times, then nodded knowingly, understanding your argument was stronger than mine. We get that you can't do popped NMs for shit, or else you wouldn't be walking around in your SH+1 for xp, but don't blame it on anything or anyone other than yourself.[/quote:a2ecf]

Why don't you mention my SH+1 some more, because it sure makes your argument more convincing POT CALLING KETTLE BAD NAMES FRONT PAGE NEWS!

My point is, has been, and always was, that PCC is about as good as Torque, and you can build around either one and be just as effective. For jobs that use several weapons (ie, every melee DD job in the game outside of mnk and drg) PCC is more efficient. You're a dumbass for trying to prove otherwise and claiming that Sea is viable because of it.

[NynJa]

Cept I don't pay a game to be annoyed fustrated and pissed off

I'm going to go off on a whim here, but I think BG is rather frustrated, annoyed and pissed off at kings.


I'm not gonna search, but I'm pretty certain there is a decent amount of threads started by BG members venting towards FI (aka: frustration, annoyance and being pissed off at kings).

[Maxxthepenguin]

At least with faith you don't have to claim. You always get faith baghs which are, by the way, fantastic, even though you'll max out fast.

[Veli]

Okay lets look over this:

Al'teiru and the In The Name of Science quest: Good.
Sea, aka Jailers: Bad.
Limbus: Good.
Several story spin-of BCNM fights: Good.
Wyrms: Bad.
ENMs: Good.
CoP Dynamis: Bad.
Enchantment items: Good.
Storyline: Good.
Level-capped zones: Bad.
Brenner: Good.
Fellowship: Good.
Pop NMs: Good.
+3 new 70+ exp zones: Good.

It appears to me, it isn't so straight forward as "OMG COP SUCKS". CoP only failed in three (big) areas: new kings, new dynamis, and new sky(notice: RoZ's end-game + pop NMs). People hate CoP because it sucked at being RoZ. However, there was a lot of good in CoP. One can say it was bad for the end-game LS, but it wasn't bad for the casual end-game player.

Failure? Vrtra is huge cash cows that no one milks. Everytime we kill Vrtra is a garunteed 30-40 million gil. But the catch is no one camps him. We can kill it at our leisure, it's not like sky where you have to worry about camping Uli so the gilsellers don't get or spending 4 hours to get Ro'Maeve Water to drop. A single Ouryu -> Bahamut#2 progression can yield 40-80 million gil (or more if you're on a hyperinflated server) depending on your luck.

I don't think you can say Tiamat is a failure if everyone competes over it as if it were Fafnir. Jormungand is a failure, GREAT fight, but the JSE ores need have better uses than DRG JSE armor.

COP was not bad for end game. Bahamut#2 is the best BCNM ever made. Ouryu is a close second. The three COP rings and four COP earrings are well worth the time investment of the missions. Limbus is a biweekly event that we never skip. Almost everyone in an end game LS has some drop from one of the many force pop COP HNM/NMs like Rostrum Pumps or Uggaligjweilghwepeth necklace. I go to the level 75 cap ENMs once week. Until ToAU came out, Uleguerand Range was the most exciting EXP zone in the game. It's just about the same amount of content as RoZ.

LOL@Vrtra being a huge cash cow. 40m between how many players? Probably better off doing a enm or something. Tiamat is laughable only huge ls with too many members camp him because they have nothing to do and too many players in linkshell. Take away the level cap COP could of been a huge. I do think that COP made it easy to obtain very good armor from ENMs + pop nms .COP overall had some nice items but i think the big part that people expected more was sea,wyrms, and the new dynamis zones.

[Skold_07]

As a Warrior, and a Paladin, I would take a Temperance or Justice Torque and Fortitude Torque over a PCC anyday, are you retarded? I guess its a bad idea to give up 3 accuracy for 7 attack, and in the case of some jobs, 5 STR. Maybe you haven't noticed it yet but most of the items that come from Sea are the best for thier slot. (Minus some weapons.) Seriously if you want to whine and complain about how hard Sea is, maybe you should farm in small groups and get EXP at the same time to get pop items (OMG AMAZING IDEA), or just not go at all. Sorry its not as easy as you would like it to be...

[layoneil]

So you pay 15$ a month to AFK...

you: "paying money to not do anything is bad"
me: "paying money to do something that irritates you is much worse"

[Elcura]

Cept I don't pay a game to be annoyed fustrated and pissed off

I'm going to go off on a whim here, but I think BG is rather frustrated, annoyed and pissed off at kings.


I'm not gonna search, but I'm pretty certain there is a decent amount of threads started by BG members venting towards FI (aka: frustration, annoyance and being pissed off at kings).

We kinda are, but at the same time we still do 3 Kings (at least Fafnir and Behe) because the rewards are good and the time isn't wasted if you're smart. Yet I can't remember the last time we were in Sea that didn't involve us going to a Limbus of some sort.

At least with faith you don't have to claim. You always get faith baghs which are, by the way, fantastic, even though you'll max out fast.

Faith Baghs are only good if you can be bothered to rape your inventory and time to farm the stones. I haven't used my Faith's once since I got them, because I just can't be bothered, and even if I did use all the stones I had I wouldn't be bothered to farm more.

I also don't think many other jobs would use a Jailor weapon over anything they already had purely because maintaning them sucks ass.

[NynJa]

For jobs that use several weapons (ie, every melee DD job in the game outside of mnk and drg) PCC is more efficient.

Lets run down the melee DD jobs:

WAR/NIN = no torque really useful
WAR/THF = Fortitude Torque > *. Seeing as how WAR/THF use Steel Cyclone, which is modded on VIT and a GAX skill. GAX+7 VIT+5 is a godsend.
MNK = Faith Torque. Its got H2H+7, and it also saves one inventory slot in not needing a Promise Badge. Of course you got meat eaters who like 85% accuracy who use PCC.
THF = Love Torque. This is BETTER than a peacock charm. Dagger+7 and DEX+5 ECLIPSES acc+10 on peacock.
DRK = Justice and Prudence both eclipse PCC. Justice has Scythe+7 and STR+5 (which by the way, is the most str on any neck piece). Prudence has GSD+7 and INT+5, which is *gasp* a modifier for Spin Slash and Ground Strike. Now what's better for Spin Slash: STR+3 from Spike Neck, Breeze/Thunder Gorget, or STR+5 ATK+6 from Justice Torque ?
NIN = Hope Torque. My LS has seen one, and it actually seemed good enough for one of our NIN's to spend all his sea pts on it. AGI+5 is a bonus.
SAM = Justice Torque is overpowered on the neck of a sam. Coupled with Bushi, a sam can get STR+4 GKT+12.
DRG = LOLDRG, Love Torque still an excellent neckpiece for drg's.
RNG/obow = Faith Torque. Marksmanship+7 = racc/ratk+6, and MND+5 helps those DoT Holy Bolts.
RNG/ebow = Hope Torque. Archery+7, alongside the extra bonuses of AGI+5.


Sorry man, but these torques really are the best for all DD jobs, excluding war/nin.

[Tom Chambers]

Why don't you mention my SH+1 some more, because it sure makes your argument more convincing POT CALLING KETTLE BAD NAMES FRONT PAGE NEWS!

LOUD NOISES!!

My cuntness doesn't have much to do with anything, your not having an Osode or Togi speaks volumes about what you think about popped NMs and your skill/ability/dedication towards...ya know, popping and beating them. So it kinda renders your Fuck Faith bandwagon irrelevent.

My point is, has been, and always was, that PCC is about as good as Torque, and you can build around either one and be just as effective. For jobs that use several weapons (ie, every melee DD job in the game outside of mnk and drg) PCC is more efficient. You're a dumbass for trying to prove otherwise and claiming that Sea is viable because of it.

Oh okay, well I'm glad that lukewarm point was a good reason to get all fucking weird and crazy.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Faith Baghs are only good if you can be bothered to rape your inventory and time to farm the stones. I haven't used my Faith's once since I got them, because I just can't be bothered, and even if I did use all the stones I had I wouldn't be bothered to farm more.

I also don't think many other jobs would use a Jailor weapon over anything they already had purely because maintaning them sucks ass.

If you don't have a phobia of sea you get a ton of virtue stones.

[aurik]

As a Warrior, and a Paladin, I would take a Temperance or Justice Torque and Fortitude Torque over a PCC anyday, are you retarded? I guess its a bad idea to give up 3 accuracy for 7 attack, and in the case of some jobs, 5 STR. Maybe you haven't noticed it yet but most of the items that come from Sea are the best for thier slot. (Minus some weapons.) Seriously if you want to whine and complain about how hard Sea is, maybe you should farm in small groups and get EXP at the same time to get pop items (OMG AMAZING IDEA), or just not go at all. Sorry its not as easy as you would like it to be...

As a warrior you must be pretty limited, never using gax or going axe/sword.

PCC will give you similar results on all your weapons, and even better it will do it full time, instead of only when you have the appropriate weapon type. You can even use it on your other lv33+ jobs, as it's the best melee neckpiece 33+! And you didn't have to blow 120+ man-hours per torque.

I'm not whining and complaining about how hard sea is, I'm saying it's a fucking waste of time for the reward density there. 16.7% drop rate torques which are side-grade or a small step up in very specific circumstances from PCC aren't reward enough to play Foot Stab with the god system in lumoria. The capes rock, but never drop. The MAB earring is ok, but not phenomenal. The best drops in the system are the Novia earring and then everything that AV drops assuming that he's even killable now.

I would have been overjoyed if they made the jailer system 1) more challenging and 2) less frustrating and 3) populated the loot tables with more than a side-grade rare/ex torque, a marginal rare/ex weapon, and a non-100% pop item for the next teir cockblocker. They could have done this; instead they opted to make it all timesink and very thin rewards.