AV: Nobody Cares About Him Anymore...

[Vormav]

As a Warrior, and a Paladin, I would take a Temperance or Justice Torque and Fortitude Torque over a PCC anyday, are you retarded? I guess its a bad idea to give up 3 accuracy for 7 attack, and in the case of some jobs, 5 STR. Maybe you haven't noticed it yet but most of the items that come from Sea are the best for thier slot. (Minus some weapons.) Seriously if you want to whine and complain about how hard Sea is, maybe you should farm in small groups and get EXP at the same time to get pop items (OMG AMAZING IDEA), or just not go at all. Sorry its not as easy as you would like it to be...

Actually for well equipped warriors that is going to be 7(6?) accuracy/attack with one weapon, and zero with the other weapon, when you could get 10 acc on both with an easilly purchased item. I think that makes the debate a bit tougher personally.

I don't think many people complain about the difficulty of sea, some of the Jailers can be challenging. I personally just find the pop process of many of the jailers extremely mind numbing, repetitive, designed to consume a more then reasonable amount of time. There is a difference between not doing things because they are challenging, and not doing things because they are a pain in the ass (oferring a few solid upgrades, a LARGE amount of sidegrades, and even a few downgrades), but that is a very subjective line, and will vary person to person, as this thread illustrates. For me, sea farming is one of the few activities I don't really enjoy in FFXI.

[layoneil]

WAR/NIN = no torque really useful

Fortitude Torque isn't the best possible neckpiece for Ridill WAR/NINs?

[NynJa]

16.7% drop rate torques which are side-grade or a small step up in very specific circumstances from PCC aren't reward enough to play Foot Stab with the god system in lumoria.

Once again, I can play this card with ANYTHING.

Why get a Thief's Knife ?? it's just a 1% extra drop rate.
Why get Adaman Hauberk ?? Its just a small step up from Haub+1.
Why get SH+1 ?? It's a measly 2 accuracy over SH.

[layoneil]

Why get a Thief's Knife ?? it's just a 1% extra drop rate.
Why get Adaman Hauberk ?? Its just a small step up from Haub+1.
Why get SH+1 ?? It's a measly 2 accuracy over SH.

i agree with all of those except two things can be bought.

imo, people who camp months for a Thief Knife are a little looney.

but what's Ridill a small step up from?

[Elcura]

Faith Baghs are only good if you can be bothered to rape your inventory and time to farm the stones. I haven't used my Faith's once since I got them, because I just can't be bothered, and even if I did use all the stones I had I wouldn't be bothered to farm more.

I also don't think many other jobs would use a Jailor weapon over anything they already had purely because maintaning them sucks ass.

If you don't have a phobia of sea you get a ton of virtue stones.

Well, I do, so I'll stick to my crappy Destroyers that I can pick up and play with without having worry about farming stupid shit for them or running out of things that make them useful after an hour!!

Also, Faith Torque is good, but Nynja doesn't understand how MNK works so he makes it sound like eating meat is a bad thing.

[NynJa]

WAR/NIN = no torque really useful

Fortitude Torque isn't the best possible neckpiece for Ridill WAR/NINs?

I wouldnt know, I'm not a war expert.

dont ridill war's have to use sushi to overcome the B rated sword skill ??

[Razz]

16.7% drop rate torques which are side-grade or a small step up in very specific circumstances from PCC aren't reward enough to play Foot Stab with the god system in lumoria.

Once again, I can play this card with ANYTHING.

Why get a Thief's Knife ?? it's just a 1% extra drop rate.
Why get Adaman Hauberk ?? Its just a small step up from Haub+1.
Why get SH+1 ?? It's a measly 2 accuracy over SH.

Thief's knife will give you more drops in the future.

Adaman hauberk will make you look 10000 times more sexy.

SH+1 will give you noob e-peen (imo this item isnt worth it)

but getting the torques will make you want to kill yourself, but if you can get them, then why not.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Faith Baghs are only good if you can be bothered to rape your inventory and time to farm the stones. I haven't used my Faith's once since I got them, because I just can't be bothered, and even if I did use all the stones I had I wouldn't be bothered to farm more.

I also don't think many other jobs would use a Jailor weapon over anything they already had purely because maintaning them sucks ass.

If you don't have a phobia of sea you get a ton of virtue stones.

Well, I do, so I'll stick to my crappy Destroyers that I can pick up and play with without having worry about farming stupid shit for them or running out of things that make them useful after an hour!!

The nice thing is you dont have to farm them if you just do sea stuff. You naturally will get some.

[Vormav]

NIN = Hope Torque. My LS has seen one, and it actually seemed good enough for one of our NIN's to spend all his sea pts on it. AGI+5 is a bonus.

That is probably because once a Ninja finishes sky gear, there is absolutely nothing to purchase extra with points, except for perhaps a Bandomusha Kote, and maybe a lolSash.

[Faranim]

People fail to realize that camping kings is actually a bigger waste of time than virtually anything else you can camp in this game.

1. You spend anywhere from 30 minutes - 3 Hours sitting in a room literally doing nothing waiting for the mob to pop
2. Your chance of claiming the mob is generally low (typically <50%)
3. Even if you DO Claim, "good" drops are not guaranteed.

Let's say you spend on average 2 hours a day (waiting for pop + Killing speed). That's a total of 60 hours spent camping a single King for a month. Now think about the total drops you'd get from camping a King for a month.

Let's look at other things End-game players do.

Dynamis = 9 runs a month, at 4 hours a run (to account for party forming time) = 36 Hours. Total drops from 9 Dynamis Runs? 40 AF2 and 2500 Currency? Better/Worse than what you'd get from a single King in a month of camping?

Limbus = 9 runs a month, 2 hours a run (again, cleaner + gather time) = 18 hours. Total drops from 9 Limbus runs? If you're smart, 1 Ultima + 1 Omega + 400 Coins + AF Upgrades.

ENM? 9 runs a month, 4 hours a run = 36 hours. Drops from 9 ENM runs? Lots of cash drops, plus 1-2 Cloud Evokers? Not to mention the 70k EXP or whatever you get.


The only reason camping Kings is bearable is because they have 30 minute windows where you can go AFK to do other RL stuff. If all Kings worked like Simurgh (no windows), camping them would become infinately more annoying, and it would end up in a pure bot-fest since no normal person would want to stare at a computer screen for 3 hours straight waiting for a mob to pop.

[Elcura]

Faith Baghs are only good if you can be bothered to rape your inventory and time to farm the stones. I haven't used my Faith's once since I got them, because I just can't be bothered, and even if I did use all the stones I had I wouldn't be bothered to farm more.

I also don't think many other jobs would use a Jailor weapon over anything they already had purely because maintaning them sucks ass.

If you don't have a phobia of sea you get a ton of virtue stones.

Well, I do, so I'll stick to my crappy Destroyers that I can pick up and play with without having worry about farming stupid shit for them or running out of things that make them useful after an hour!!

The nice thing is you dont have to farm them if you just do sea stuff. You naturally will get some.

Because I really hate myself so much I'll do Sea runs and pick up a few items to get some stones that will last for ANOTHER HOUR OR 2 BEFORE SWITCHING BACK TO DESTROYERS.

All that for blowing my brains out.

[Lyramion]

Why get a Thief's Knife ?? it's just a 1% extra drop rate.

Cause THFs always take the blame if it isnt a jackpot drop and feel guilty at night - even more when they have no knife

Why get Adaman Hauberk ?? Its just a small step up from Haub+1.

Cause Body Armor has most Polygon Area on your model and everyone will see you have a hugh e-peen from far

[Tom Chambers]

I'm pretty sure a Fortitude Torque is where it's at for Ridill/Joy. And Temperance for axe/axe. Axe/Ridill or axe/Joy, would be PCC.

[NynJa]

NIN = Hope Torque. My LS has seen one, and it actually seemed good enough for one of our NIN's to spend all his sea pts on it. AGI+5 is a bonus.

That is probably because once a Ninja finishes sky gear, there is absolutely nothing to purchase extra with points, except for perhaps a Bandomusha Kote, and maybe a lolSash.

The nin in question doesnt have Bando Kote (my LS doesnt do Xolotl anyways, its a stingy sack of shit, took a documented 52 kills straight to get a Harpe), and he wasnt even in running for sash.

[NynJa]

Why get a Thief's Knife ?? it's just a 1% extra drop rate.

Cause THFs always take the blame if it isnt a jackpot drop and feel guilty at night - even more when they have no knife

Then they are foolish thieves with no self confidence and/or no balls.

When that happens I say "maybe you fags shouldnt have put me in for the last 1%".

[Matricide]

heh, you know how scarce it is that items really make a huge impact on how you perform in this game? you guys can do your fucking numbers all the shit you want.

ive pimped the S H I T outta my ranger, everytime adding a new piece of gear, going out.. and yeah, i really dont feel any different at all. i can pickup nq's of all my shit and put away my PCC and dump my (R)s, and what, ill do 50 less damage?

gimme a coeurl sub and im happy. gear especially hq gear hardly does shit for you in this game. it's the high damage weapon (or multihit), the food, the berzerk, and the bards, that really impact your damage output. hitting for 1-2 extra swings or for 10 dmg more can kiss my ass when youre just going to slug/Asuran/rampage at 25% anyway.

meh. hq's and other rare shit to me are just goals to accomplish, hardly done to be that much more 'efficient'.

of course, thats my 2 cents. so while i'd love a hope torque some day. M E H.

[Elcura]

The only reason camping Kings is bearable is because they have 30 minute windows where you can go AFK to do other RL stuff. If all Kings worked like Simurgh (no windows), camping them would become infinately more annoying, and it would end up in a pure bot-fest since no normal person would want to stare at a computer screen for 3 hours straight waiting for a mob to pop.

If doing sea was like this then I don't think people would complain as much as they do.

if 3 kings was like roc/serket/etc then people would bitch more as well.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Faith Baghs are only good if you can be bothered to rape your inventory and time to farm the stones. I haven't used my Faith's once since I got them, because I just can't be bothered, and even if I did use all the stones I had I wouldn't be bothered to farm more.

I also don't think many other jobs would use a Jailor weapon over anything they already had purely because maintaning them sucks ass.

If you don't have a phobia of sea you get a ton of virtue stones.

Well, I do, so I'll stick to my crappy Destroyers that I can pick up and play with without having worry about farming stupid shit for them or running out of things that make them useful after an hour!!

The nice thing is you dont have to farm them if you just do sea stuff. You naturally will get some.

Because I really hate myself so much I'll do Sea runs and pick up a few items to get some stones that will last for ANOTHER HOUR OR 2 BEFORE SWITCHING BACK TO DESTROYERS.

All that for blowing my brains out.

CAPS LOCK MAKE ME FEEL SPECIAL

Sea is not as focused as sky, or at least its not efficient to be that focused. The best way to do things is to merit Ix'Aern (Drg or Drk) which gives Exp, a chance to pop a NM you need, Organs to pop Ix'Mnk, Chips to power weapons, and organs for gorgets/obis. That is some damn efficient stuff.

[aurik]

For jobs that use several weapons (ie, every melee DD job in the game outside of mnk and drg) PCC is more efficient.

Lets run down the melee DD jobs:

WAR/NIN = no torque really useful
WAR/THF = Fortitude Torque > *. Seeing as how WAR/THF use Steel Cyclone, which is modded on VIT and a GAX skill. GAX+7 VIT+5 is a godsend.
MNK = Faith Torque. Its got H2H+7, and it also saves one inventory slot in not needing a Promise Badge. Of course you got meat eaters who like 85% accuracy who use PCC.
THF = Love Torque. This is BETTER than a peacock charm. Dagger+7 and DEX+5 ECLIPSES acc+10 on peacock.
DRK = Justice and Prudence both eclipse PCC. Justice has Scythe+7 and STR+5 (which by the way, is the most str on any neck piece). Prudence has GSD+7 and INT+5, which is *gasp* a modifier for Spin Slash and Ground Strike. Now what's better for Spin Slash: STR+3 from Spike Neck, Breeze/Thunder Gorget, or STR+5 ATK+6 from Justice Torque ?
NIN = Hope Torque. My LS has seen one, and it actually seemed good enough for one of our NIN's to spend all his sea pts on it. AGI+5 is a bonus.
SAM = Justice Torque is overpowered on the neck of a sam. Coupled with Bushi, a sam can get STR+4 GKT+12.
DRG = LOLDRG, Love Torque still an excellent neckpiece for drg's.
RNG/obow = Faith Torque. Marksmanship+7 = racc/ratk+6, and MND+5 helps those DoT Holy Bolts.
RNG/ebow = Hope Torque. Archery+7, alongside the extra bonuses of AGI+5.


Sorry man, but these torques really are the best for all DD jobs, excluding war/nin.

Let's go down the jobs from a better perspective:

War: Should be able to go /nin or /thf, should be able to use Gax and Axe and Sword. A torque helps only 1 of these (unless you're going to give the guy 2, lol 250 man-hours...) so PCC really excels. You want to use gorget for WS, not torque.

Mnk: Faith Torque is on-par with PCC; one could build around either. Sushi eaters would do better with Faith, but they would also do better if they ate meat, so that's moot. Gorget for WS.

Thf: Yep, Torque is nice. However since SA is 100% hit, 100% crit, you could potentially macro in a dex/str item (spike?) for the strike, so it isn't ridill. Gorget for WS.

Drg: lol

Sam: Again, you want to use gorget for WS rather than torque. PCC is marginally better for TPing in, since SAMs deal shitty DoT outside of WS.

Rng: should be able to use marksmanship and archery as the situation dictates. Torque will only help one of the two. Ranger's necklace, which gives almost the same boost (minus the mnd for holy bolts) is free and level 14 and works for both. Gorget for WS.

Nin: Eva Torque > Hope Torque for evasion. Torque is OK for TPing, but not clearly better than PCC, as PCC offers 4 acc over torque with max merit.

My conclusion: the torques are all usable drops, but none are more than marginally more useful than PCC.

[NynJa]

Aurik, you specifically said a few posts back you are CONTENT with 85% accuracy...

but they would also do better if they ate meat, so that's moot.

That is a fucking ignorant based comment. Read this again, THAT IS IGNORANCE. If meat were "OMGWTFBBQ" better, NO ONE WOULD USE SUSHI.

That's your problem. You see what you want to see, and you're blind to everything else.

Thf: Yep, Torque is nice. However since SA is 100% hit, 100% crit, you could potentially macro in a dex/str item (spike?) for the strike, so it isn't ridill. Gorget for WS.

Really ?
Dancing Edge and Shark Bite are not 1 hit WS's. A DE that hits 1 main hand, 1 offhand and whiffs the rest blows.