AV: Nobody Cares About Him Anymore...

[NynJa]

Nin: Eva Torque > Hope Torque for evasion. Torque is OK for TPing, but not clearly better than PCC, as PCC offers 4 acc over torque with max merit.

Wtf? Evasion NIN? GFTO KI. Hope torque adds +7 attack and +6.3 accuracy. Why do I need 3.7 more accuracy for when I'm at 292 skill? Meat (hedghog pie?) adds like +60-70 attack to a NIN with with berserk on right? 7 attack is pretty significant then if you're talking like this food is superior to a 15% total accuracy buff.

Uh hello, Nynja claimed that the ninja took it for agi...of course I'm going to comment that it's pretty worthless compared to eva/parry torque if that is why the ninja wanted it.

whoa whoa, dont twist my fkn words son.

I said the AGI+5 is a bonus. As in, its extra insurance over an allready great DD piece.

My mistake, I thought you meant he took it *for* that agi+5 bonus. Eva nin at endgame nothx, but even then, eva/parry torques are better. Agi+5 is a pretty weak bonus for nin :-/ it's like getting chr+5 on the axe torque for war.

Whether it is still a KI rumor, a sick joke, alla PLD thing, or placebo effect...AGI helps parry rate.

What would you wear:
acc+10 atk+10 AGI-10
or
acc+10 atk+10 AGI+10

for the sake of argument, the piece of gear w/ AGI+10 costs 15 mil, while the AGI-10 piece costs 12 mil, all other stats are identical.

[Not Kuno]

I'm not a bard but I remember manteel being around 20m~ on bahamut. That's a not alot of money with you bring 30-40 people. Why not just have them all form parties and camp roc, serket, CC, sirmuh etc at the same time and make more money?

[aurik]

Nin: Eva Torque > Hope Torque for evasion. Torque is OK for TPing, but not clearly better than PCC, as PCC offers 4 acc over torque with max merit.

Wtf? Evasion NIN? GFTO KI. Hope torque adds +7 attack and +6.3 accuracy. Why do I need 3.7 more accuracy for when I'm at 292 skill? Meat (hedghog pie?) adds like +60-70 attack to a NIN with with berserk on right? 7 attack is pretty significant then if you're talking like this food is superior to a 15% total accuracy buff.

Uh hello, Nynja claimed that the ninja took it for agi...of course I'm going to comment that it's pretty worthless compared to eva/parry torque if that is why the ninja wanted it.

whoa whoa, dont twist my fkn words son.

I said the AGI+5 is a bonus. As in, its extra insurance over an allready great DD piece.

My mistake, I thought you meant he took it *for* that agi+5 bonus. Eva nin at endgame nothx, but even then, eva/parry torques are better. Agi+5 is a pretty weak bonus for nin :-/ it's like getting chr+5 on the axe torque for war.

Whether it is still a KI rumor, a sick joke, alla PLD thing, or placebo effect...AGI helps parry rate.

What would you wear:
acc+10 atk+10 AGI-10
or
acc+10 atk+10 AGI+10

for the sake of argument, the piece of gear w/ AGI+10 costs 15 mil, while the AGI-10 piece costs 12 mil, all other stats are identical.

If you're going for parry you wear a parry torque.

If you're going for DD you can wear a PCC and who cares about 0.1% difference to parry rate? All serious DD nins wear hq haub anyway, which blows away both their evasion and parry. Bonus or not, it's a pretty weak bonus, and certainly doesn't mean that it's significantly better piece than PCC.

[NynJa]

If you're gearing for DD, you gear for DD.

Why wear acc+10, when you can get atk+7 acc+6 for DD, and throw in a scrumptuous AGI+5 for a job with allready the best parry rating ?

[Demetrios]

I'm not a bard but I remember manteel being around 20m~ on bahamut. That's a not alot of money with you bring 30-40 people. Why not just have them all form parties and camp roc, serket, CC, sirmuh etc at the same time and make more money?

There's no challenge in those fights. You don't have a garunteed claim. You don't have a garunteed drop.

I dunno, I like killing HNMs. I like making gil. Vrtra is the perfect synthesis of the two for me. For my shell it goes into a bank and spent more on members who aren't up for or able to get item drops. So 30-40 million from one night's event goes a long way.

[aurik]

If you're gearing for DD, you gear for DD.

Why wear acc+10, when you can get atk+7 acc+6 for DD, and throw in a scrumptuous AGI+5 for a job with allready the best parry rating ?

Because 4 acc is more important than 7 atk for building TP and doesn't require 500+ man-hours to obtain?

[Elcura]

Bahamut is pretty competitive, most of the times we wanted to kill something it was already being killed or getting ready to be killed...

[inafume]

Ina, you need to remember that Emerald was the first LS on gilgamesh in sea. They spent a lot of time up there before most information was known. I pushed SD hard to get involved with sea before I left. Even when I joined Emerald, there were still many blanks involved with sea.

And, I'm sure there are a few unallocated torques on our message boards.

Oh, I know they were there much earlier than SD (and others). That's why I found it odd that you pulled out the number 9, when SD has spent far less time there and has at least half the number of torques. But then Flux said your number was low which makes total sense given the amount of time, and if recordkeeping on that is lax things will sneak by.

[NynJa]

If you're gearing for DD, you gear for DD.

Why wear acc+10, when you can get atk+7 acc+6 for DD, and throw in a scrumptuous AGI+5 for a job with allready the best parry rating ?

Because 4 acc is more important than 7 atk for building TP and doesn't require 500+ man-hours to obtain?

I guess those hits while you're building TP mean nothing....

[Lockecole]

If you're gearing for DD, you gear for DD.

Why wear acc+10, when you can get atk+7 acc+6 for DD, and throw in a scrumptuous AGI+5 for a job with allready the best parry rating ?

Because 4 acc is more important than 7 atk for building TP and doesn't require 500+ man-hours to obtain?

What's with you and PCC? For someone who used Spike Necklace for so long and claimed it as being "sufficient", why do you act like something such as Hope Torque is useless? Attack is not useless, accuracy isnt everything. You even state that the attack cap is nearly impossible to reach on EXP mobs, so basically ANY attack is needed attack, especially for NIN.

Ontop of that, not everyone has 20M to spend on a PCC. Im well off and its not something I deem worthy to get for any of my jobs, short of THF possibly. Ive camped Argus, he's a bitch and wont drop, so Im happy with Fortitude/Ryl.Knights/Hope Torques. Beyond that I dont know what to say. Weapon Skill owns, and Torques are VERY good. Sorry if there exists a broken item like PCC that hardly anyone but the rich and the IGE impared can buy.

[Stellar]

The 5 agi on the Hope Torque is not negligable.. Do you hit a gear swap macro for evasion or parry torque every time a mob swings? Didn't think so.. My shell does quite a bit of sea. If we spend over 1 hour on faith with a full alliance then something is wrong..

We're on our third Jailer of Love and have yet to farm grah chips, because they just come naturally during Temperance pops and other random sea things.. The only jailer that can be a pain in the ass is Temperance, but he does seem to have a pretty good drop rate on his virtue..

CoP isn't perfect, but I personally have faaar more fun with jailers then king camping. To each his own I suppose.

And sea drops.. we've seen around 13 torques, novia, 8 capes

(and i can't believe you called dalmatica the best body)

[Xavier]

Ontop of that, not everyone has 20M to spend on a PCC.

Just go kill Vrtra it drops a lot of money.

[aurik]

If you're gearing for DD, you gear for DD.

Why wear acc+10, when you can get atk+7 acc+6 for DD, and throw in a scrumptuous AGI+5 for a job with allready the best parry rating ?

Because 4 acc is more important than 7 atk for building TP and doesn't require 500+ man-hours to obtain?

What's with you and PCC? For someone who used Spike Necklace for so long and claimed it as being "sufficient", why do you act like something such as Hope Torque is useless? Attack is not useless, accuracy isnt everything. You even state that the attack cap is nearly impossible to reach on EXP mobs, so basically ANY attack is needed attack, especially for NIN.

Ontop of that, not everyone has 20M to spend on a PCC. Im well off and its not something I deem worthy to get for any of my jobs, short of THF possibly. Ive camped Argus, he's a bitch and wont drop, so Im happy with Fortitude/Ryl.Knights/Hope Torques. Beyond that I dont know what to say. Weapon Skill owns, and Torques are VERY good. Sorry if there exists a broken item like PCC that hardly anyone but the rich and the IGE impared can buy.

I'm not saying Hope Torque is useless. I'm saying it's not clearly better than PCC and that you have to play Foot Stab to get it.

It's a side-grade item. Considering the difficulty of getting not only torques but also first-teir virtues to pop the torque dropper in the first place, which I'm guessing runs in the hundreds of man-hours, PCC looks far more attractive.

[Xavier]

Its also lv 33.

[Krandor]

Its also lv 33.

Useable by all jobs too instead of just getting usefulness for 1 or maybe 2 total <_<

[epigram]

It has ranged acc too ! :/

[NynJa]

I never knew difficulty influenced the power of an item...

acc+10 > acc+6 atk+7 just because the acc+10 item is "easier" to get ?

[epigram]

I think the argument was that they were the same. It was just easier to get a PCC.

[aurik]

I never knew difficulty influenced the power of an item...

acc+10 > acc+6 atk+7 just because the acc+10 item is "easier" to get ?

You aren't listening. I'm saying acc+6 atk+7 is not necessarily better than acc+10. You can build around both and in the end wouldn't be able to tell the difference on a parse.

I wouldn't take a look at a ninja and say "lol hope torque you're such a gimp get a PCC". I'd say "lol hope torque, you and your LS spent 200+ man-hours in sea getting that when you could have just bought a PCC and gotten the same results."

[Xavier]

Its not really hard to understand.

Between two items of near equal usefulness, that which can be obtained the easiest, is usually better.