AV: Nobody Cares About Him Anymore...

[aurik]

I guess you're right then. attack is a useless stat.
Lets dig up all those aurik threads where he swears by any and all forms of attack gear and food...right ?



I predict the value of Aiming Bracelets to go waaaaay up.

Now you're putting words in my mouth. I didn't say it was useless. I said that the value of 7 attack versus the value of 4 accuracy is unclear.

[Charitwo]

lol??
I'm the one saying acc+6 atk+7 > acc+10

Aurik says "nono acc+10 is interchangable with acc+6 atk+7, they give virtually the same".



glad you're understanding whats goin on lol.

Stop now before you embarrass yourself even further.

[Valacar]

I'm just going to jump in here pretty quickly. Some people (NynJa) seem to have overlooked that some jobs would require a lot of torques to have +6 acc and +7 att for any weapon combo.

DRKs, for example, would need Prudence (G.Sword and K.Club), Justice (Scythe), Fortitude (Ridill), and Temperance (Axe) to have those bonuses for all situations. DRKs very commonly use all those weapons on an 'average' day for HNMs, meriting, etc.

So really, to compare +6 acc and +7 att to a universal +10 acc is pretty silly. Even dedicated sea LSs (I'm in seashell) have seen only a couple of each torque (if you're lucky). The general attitude on this forum seems to be that seashell has had better luck with these drops and I'll be lucky to see 1 torque....ever....let alone the 4 I would need to trick out my DRK in full.

While I would jump at the chance to take one of those torques, there really is no comparison to how easily obtainable a PCC is in contrast to the devastating probability you even see 1 torque in your game experience for the most marginal of boosts.

[NynJa]

You think the difference between 620 and 627 attack is negligible ??

Why pay 20 mil for Haub+1 ?? Why pay an extra 600k for Merman Earrings ?? Why pay an extra 8mil for Jugger over Maneater ??


No, that 7 attack, while not exactly adding 500 dmg to rampages, is going to affect something. If it was negligible, people wouldnt spend 25 mil for Haub+1, spend 1.2 mil on Merman Earrings when you can get Coral for 10k each, wont spend 12 mil on Jugger when you can get Maneater for 4.

[aurik]

You think the difference between 620 and 627 attack is negligible ??

Why pay 20 mil for Haub+1 ?? Why pay an extra 600k for Merman Earrings ?? Why pay an extra 8mil for Jugger over Maneater ??


No, that 7 attack, while not exactly adding 500 dmg to rampages, is going to affect something. If it was negligible, people wouldnt spend 25 mil for Haub+1, spend 1.2 mil on Merman Earrings when you can get Coral for 10k each, wont spend 12 mil on Jugger when you can get Maneater for 4.

The difference there is that they get the extra attack for no accuracy trade-off.

[Lockecole]

So really, to compare +6 acc and +7 att to a universal +10 acc is pretty silly. Even dedicated sea LSs (I'm in seashell) have seen only a couple of each torque (if you're lucky). The general attitude on this forum seems to be that seashell has had better luck with these drops and I'll be lucky to see 1 torque....ever....let alone the 4 I would need to trick out my DRK in full.

[Bold]Don't zerg sea with 60 people, its not made for that. Sea is made, especially for the lower tier Jailers, to be farmed with a small group, an alliance max, in order to get people items. Ive seen so many people with Torques and its always the JPs with the tight-nit groups that end up farming them and getting them to drop. Zerging sea with a huge LS entirely meant for sea, will in turn net a higher amount of drops, but in relation to the amount of people in the LS...lets just say "sup 30 people ending up with nothing before the LS breaks."

[wartortle]

Which is why Brynie +1 is usually worse than Haub+1.

[inafume]

You think the difference between 620 and 627 attack is negligible ??

Why pay 20 mil for Haub+1 ?? Why pay an extra 600k for Merman Earrings ?? Why pay an extra 8mil for Jugger over Maneater ??


No, that 7 attack, while not exactly adding 500 dmg to rampages, is going to affect something. If it was negligible, people wouldnt spend 25 mil for Haub+1, spend 1.2 mil on Merman Earrings when you can get Coral for 10k each, wont spend 12 mil on Jugger when you can get Maneater for 4.

The difference there is that they get the extra attack for no accuracy trade-off.

But even you yourself said there's a point where accuracy doesn't matter, but it's very difficult to reach the attack cap.

[CaptainObvious]

You think the difference between 620 and 627 attack is negligible ??

Why pay 20 mil for Haub+1 ?? Why pay an extra 600k for Merman Earrings ?? Why pay an extra 8mil for Jugger over Maneater ??


No, that 7 attack, while not exactly adding 500 dmg to rampages, is going to affect something. If it was negligible, people wouldnt spend 25 mil for Haub+1, spend 1.2 mil on Merman Earrings when you can get Coral for 10k each, wont spend 12 mil on Jugger when you can get Maneater for 4.

Or because a majority of FFXI players would rather blow gil on expensive items for e-peen status. Plus, a majority of FFXI players see a bigger number and think it must be worth 5X the value of the smaller number.

[Valacar]

You think the difference between 620 and 627 attack is negligible ??

Why pay 20 mil for Haub+1 ?? Why pay an extra 600k for Merman Earrings ?? Why pay an extra 8mil for Jugger over Maneater ??

Y helo thar biased statement. I said the boost is marginal (you forget to mention the -acc you get from equipping a torque).

If someone can give parser info that adaberk is about +3% to your damage do you really think +1 att on a merman earring is going to make fuck all difference? The correct answer is 'white borders are cool'.

Oh, and you forgot to comment on what I said about DRKs requiring 4 torques to have these universal stat bonuses.

Getting pedantic over the wording of my last sentence doesn't really do justice to your point.

[aurik]

You think the difference between 620 and 627 attack is negligible ??

Why pay 20 mil for Haub+1 ?? Why pay an extra 600k for Merman Earrings ?? Why pay an extra 8mil for Jugger over Maneater ??


No, that 7 attack, while not exactly adding 500 dmg to rampages, is going to affect something. If it was negligible, people wouldnt spend 25 mil for Haub+1, spend 1.2 mil on Merman Earrings when you can get Coral for 10k each, wont spend 12 mil on Jugger when you can get Maneater for 4.

The difference there is that they get the extra attack for no accuracy trade-off.

But even you yourself said there's a point where accuracy doesn't matter, but it's very difficult to reach the attack cap.

And if you eat meat, you won't hit the point where accuracy doesn't matter and still won't hit the attack cap.

[NynJa]

Not everyone is a meat eater. Get that through your head...

And contrary to your beliefs, just because YOU do it, does not mean it is the best.

[aurik]

Regardless, "which is better?" between 7 att vs 4 acc is unclear.

[Valacar]

So really, to compare +6 acc and +7 att to a universal +10 acc is pretty silly. Even dedicated sea LSs (I'm in seashell) have seen only a couple of each torque (if you're lucky). The general attitude on this forum seems to be that seashell has had better luck with these drops and I'll be lucky to see 1 torque....ever....let alone the 4 I would need to trick out my DRK in full.

[Bold]Don't zerg sea with 60 people, its not made for that. Sea is made, especially for the lower tier Jailers, to be farmed with a small group, an alliance max, in order to get people items. Ive seen so many people with Torques and its always the JPs with the tight-nit groups that end up farming them and getting them to drop. Zerging sea with a huge LS entirely meant for sea, will in turn net a higher amount of drops, but in relation to the amount of people in the LS...lets just say "sup 30 people ending up with nothing before the LS breaks."

You might be right about a greater pay off for a smaller group of people farming sea. The problem is, no LS is going to take down JoL or AV without at least 36+ people. Not that it takes 36 people to kill JoL but there will inevitably be people who can't be online when you pop him. I'm not saying we have the optimal number of members in the LS or anything but to accomplish a lot is going to take a significant number of players and some people, unfortunately, will never see torques.

[Xavier]

Not everyone is a meat eater. Get that through your head...

And contrary to your beliefs, just because YOU do it, does not mean it is the best.

Get it through YOUR head, that the difference in dmg is non existant between 6 acc, 7 atk, vs 10 acc. The difference in the amount of time it takes to do the BC40 to get a peacock charm vs. the amount of time it takes to kill the higher tier jailers is disproportionate to the differences in the torques.

Its.
Really.
Simple.

Neither item has a clear advantage in a party, one has a clear advantage in the amount of time it takes to get.

[Valacar]

Not everyone is a meat eater. Get that through your head...

And contrary to your beliefs, just because YOU do it, does not mean it is the best.

Get it through YOUR head, that the difference in dmg is non existant between 6 acc, 7 atk, vs 10 acc. The difference in the amount of time it takes to do the BC40 to get a peacock charm vs. the amount of time it takes to kill the higher tier jailers is disproportionate to the differences in the torques.

Its.
Really.
Simple.

This is the correct answer. Seriously, if it took even 1/500th the effort to get the 4 torques I 'need' compared to a 20mil PCC, there would be some argument. When the FF servers go down permanently, someone let me know if a versatile melee DD (DRK, WAR, THF, more?) has all the torques they need for even reasonable weapon combinations.

[aurik]

I'm really stoked for next time I level my lv38 thf, I can wear this sexy 10acc neckpiece I just bought.

[Valacar]

I'm really stoked for next time I level my lv38 thf, I can wear this sexy 10acc neckpiece I just bought.

LOL. Classiest thing I've read in this forum.

[Elcura]

Basically it's time vs reward, get something faster, easier and cheaper or do it the long way. I think a lot of things in this world suggest people don't like doing things the long way.

[NynJa]

You might be right about a greater pay off for a smaller group of people farming sea. The problem is, no LS is going to take down JoL or AV without at least 36+ people. Not that it takes 36 people to kill JoL but there will inevitably be people who can't be online when you pop him. I'm not saying we have the optimal number of members in the LS or anything but to accomplish a lot is going to take a significant number of players and some people, unfortunately, will never see torques.

JoL definately does not take 36+ people...

18 main alliance, 1 add pt for aerns (atleast how my LS fights it), and 1 outside pt of healers.



Xav man, I respect the things you've done in this game, but honestly, how are you going to use the argument of "its too hard to get" against the torques when you camp Fafnir exclusively for Ridill ? (I dont believe BG really need any aegish's, hrotti's, advaraunts (lol), Faf abjus at this point).

Yeah, I get your point, Ridill > Joyeuse, just like Torque > PCC. One is easy to get (Joyeuse, and I guess 20 mil is easy to get for some ppl), and one is difficult to get.