Puppet Master the next Dragoon

[Tyche]

No playerbase blows more than RDM. Period.

Agreed. WHM makes a close 2nd.

Most of them don't even acknowledge that Haste exists.

WHMs who spam Cure 2/3/4 instead of waiting and using a single Cure V baffle my mind. Combined with their inability to remove status effects, it pains me to party with incompetent WHMs.

Cuz of an HNM's ability to kill a tank within a couple of seconds if under 1000 HP is why you do not let it drop low. For exp parties however, i agree.

[Veli]

Theres nice amount of crappy Ninjas these days also.

[Lordwafik]

Theres nice amount of crappy Ninjas these days also.

I kinda disagree, back when it was "PLD only" days, nin's sucked hardcore because they did Utsesimi + Provoke only.

the job I think has the most crappy players is Paladin. Alot of people who were pld on my rdm xp'ing days, didnt know how to use cover or realize you can heal other party members who are now tanking the mob due to your shity ability, also PLD's who run away while I lined up SATA on my thf, good times.

[copgary]

I've run into more bad Red Mages than any other job, I think.

There's the occasional Warrior using polearm or a sword, but all-in-all I would have to say that a good RDM is a golden ticket.

[Tahngarthor]

But isnt cure V less MP efficient than 2/3/4 ? (because of the low enmity it generates)

[Mifaco]

2x thf 2x nin 1 brd 1 healer. Everyone does damage, nobody gets hurt.

I've been in party setups similar to that, and I deemed them 'suck-burn' parties. It's both sad and hilarious to see 2 THFs plinking away for 20 damage only to WS for some shitty amount of damage. I'd rather get a WAR that can actually deal real DoT than wait for a THF's SATA timer to be up.

That's what I dont understand, even at 57 all my SC outdamage all WAR's rampages, all DRG penta, all sam Tachi:whatever,

It's not hard to outdamage penta, but I have to question your servers' WARs if you're consistently outdamaging them on Rampage...but then again, you're on Asura, so that may be a factor.

[Anyway]

No he may be right, at 57 many of the places you go aren't really axe friendly.

[Wizerd]

But isnt cure V less MP efficient than 2/3/4 ? (because of the low enmity it generates)

Cure 5 is 135 MP, and has a soft cap of 590(right?), which is 4.37~ HP/MP.
Cure 4 is 88 MP, and has a soft cap of 390, which is 4.43~ HP/MP.
Cure 3 is 46 MP, and has a soft cap of 190, which is 4.13~ HP/MP.
Cure 2 is 24 MP, and has a soft cap of 90, which is 3.75 HP/MP.
Cure is 8 MP, and has a soft cap of 30, which is 3.75 HP/MP.

Assuming those numbers are correct, yes Cure IV has the most potency per MP, but it's hardly worth the amount of enmity to get. If they were all even at Cure IV's level, Cure V would cost 133 MP... So you're using an extra 2 MP to save your life.

edit: and that places the efficiency order this way:
Cure IV
Cure V
Cure III
Cure II
Cure

[Tyche]

But isnt cure V less MP efficient than 2/3/4 ? (because of the low enmity it generates)

Cure 5 is 135 MP, and has a soft cap of 590(right?), which is 4.37~ HP/MP.
Cure 4 is 88 MP, and has a soft cap of 390, which is 4.43~ HP/MP.
Cure 3 is 46 MP, and has a soft cap of 190, which is 4.13~ HP/MP.
Cure 2 is 24 MP, and has a soft cap of 90, which is 3.75 HP/MP.
Cure is 8 MP, and has a soft cap of 30, which is 3.75 HP/MP.

Assuming those numbers are correct, yes Cure IV has the most potency per MP, but it's hardly worth the amount of enmity to get. If they were all even at Cure IV's level, Cure V would cost 133 MP... So you're using an extra 2 MP to save your life.

edit: and that places the efficiency order this way:
Cure IV
Cure V
Cure III
Cure II
Cure

Thats not taking into account +xx% Cure Potency. The higher the soft cap, the more HP recovered % wise.

[GRT]

No playerbase blows more than RDM. Period.

Agreed. WHM makes a close 2nd.

Most of them don't even acknowledge that Haste exists.

WHMs who spam Cure 2/3/4 instead of waiting and using a single Cure V baffle my mind. Combined with their inability to remove status effects, it pains me to party with incompetent WHMs.

i guess there'd be less shitty rdm or whm if your character can auto spam spells

[Wizerd]

But isnt cure V less MP efficient than 2/3/4 ? (because of the low enmity it generates)

Cure 5 is 135 MP, and has a soft cap of 590(right?), which is 4.37~ HP/MP.
Cure 4 is 88 MP, and has a soft cap of 390, which is 4.43~ HP/MP.
Cure 3 is 46 MP, and has a soft cap of 190, which is 4.13~ HP/MP.
Cure 2 is 24 MP, and has a soft cap of 90, which is 3.75 HP/MP.
Cure is 8 MP, and has a soft cap of 30, which is 3.75 HP/MP.

Assuming those numbers are correct, yes Cure IV has the most potency per MP, but it's hardly worth the amount of enmity to get. If they were all even at Cure IV's level, Cure V would cost 133 MP... So you're using an extra 2 MP to save your life.

edit: and that places the efficiency order this way:
Cure IV
Cure V
Cure III
Cure II
Cure

Thats not taking into account +xx% Cure Potency. The higher the soft cap, the more HP recovered % wise.

To add +xx% onto it, just add that number to the efficiency value. For example, 4.43 HP/MP with 22% Cure potency additions becomes 5.41 HP/MP. The efficiency grades stay the same, though, which was the point.

[Lordwafik]

2x thf 2x nin 1 brd 1 healer. Everyone does damage, nobody gets hurt.

I've been in party setups similar to that, and I deemed them 'suck-burn' parties. It's both sad and hilarious to see 2 THFs plinking away for 20 damage only to WS for some shitty amount of damage. I'd rather get a WAR that can actually deal real DoT than wait for a THF's SATA timer to be up.

[quote:206e4]
That's what I dont understand, even at 57 all my SC outdamage all WAR's rampages, all DRG penta, all sam Tachi:whatever,

It's not hard to outdamage penta, but I have to question your servers' WARs if you're consistently outdamaging them on Rampage...but then again, you're on Asura, so that may be a factor.[/quote:206e4]

lol elitist.

Anyway, 2thf 2nin 1whm 1brd getting chain 9 on crabs in boyahda might be suck burn to you, but not to me, you can stick with your 4-5 chains, while my DD ninjas and DD thieves explode on the mobs.

Of course I can outdamag other melee AT 57. If a THF cant SATA+VB a war's rampage , the thief is the one with problems, not the WAR. between 54-57 i've exp'd on Bats (here's where I hit a near 900 SATA VB), Goblins, crabs, spiders, beetles, scorpions, hecteyes. Keep in mind which level a WAR can use a haubergeon, untill they get acess to one, their rampages stay sub-par.

[Wizerd]

2x thf 2x nin 1 brd 1 healer. Everyone does damage, nobody gets hurt.

I've been in party setups similar to that, and I deemed them 'suck-burn' parties. It's both sad and hilarious to see 2 THFs plinking away for 20 damage only to WS for some shitty amount of damage. I'd rather get a WAR that can actually deal real DoT than wait for a THF's SATA timer to be up.

[quote:772c3]
That's what I dont understand, even at 57 all my SC outdamage all WAR's rampages, all DRG penta, all sam Tachi:whatever,

It's not hard to outdamage penta, but I have to question your servers' WARs if you're consistently outdamaging them on Rampage...but then again, you're on Asura, so that may be a factor.

lol elitist.

Anyway, 2thf 2nin 1whm 1brd getting chain 9 on crabs in boyahda might be suck burn to you, but not to me, you can stick with your 4-5 chains, while my DD ninjas and DD thieves explode on the mobs.

Of course I can outdamag other melee AT 57. If a THF cant SATA+VB a war's rampage , the thief is the one with problems, not the WAR. between 54-57 i've exp'd on Bats (here's where I hit a near 900 SATA VB), Goblins, crabs, spiders, beetles, scorpions, hecteyes. Keep in mind which level a WAR can use a haubergeon, untill they get acess to one, their rampages stay sub-par.[/quote:772c3]

Did you do Blade: Chi -> Viper bite chains consistantly to keep the damage up? Even I find it hard to believe those 4 DDs could down a chain 9, due to the timers... But with some luck and skillchains, I can see it.

[Xavier]

3 RNG, NIN, RDM, BRD would demolish your PT at lv57....2years ago :wink:

[Lordwafik]

2x thf 2x nin 1 brd 1 healer. Everyone does damage, nobody gets hurt.

I've been in party setups similar to that, and I deemed them 'suck-burn' parties. It's both sad and hilarious to see 2 THFs plinking away for 20 damage only to WS for some shitty amount of damage. I'd rather get a WAR that can actually deal real DoT than wait for a THF's SATA timer to be up.

[quote:82da6]
That's what I dont understand, even at 57 all my SC outdamage all WAR's rampages, all DRG penta, all sam Tachi:whatever,

It's not hard to outdamage penta, but I have to question your servers' WARs if you're consistently outdamaging them on Rampage...but then again, you're on Asura, so that may be a factor.

lol elitist.

Anyway, 2thf 2nin 1whm 1brd getting chain 9 on crabs in boyahda might be suck burn to you, but not to me, you can stick with your 4-5 chains, while my DD ninjas and DD thieves explode on the mobs.

Of course I can outdamag other melee AT 57. If a THF cant SATA+VB a war's rampage , the thief is the one with problems, not the WAR. between 54-57 i've exp'd on Bats (here's where I hit a near 900 SATA VB), Goblins, crabs, spiders, beetles, scorpions, hecteyes. Keep in mind which level a WAR can use a haubergeon, untill they get acess to one, their rampages stay sub-par.

Did you do Blade: Chi -> Viper bite chains consistantly to keep the damage up? Even I find it hard to believe those 4 DDs could down a chain 9, due to the timers... But with some luck and skillchains, I can see it.[/quote:82da6]

the 2thf 2nin 1 rdm 1 brd pt, i wasnt paying attention to too much of what they were doing with damage and such, because I was on my RDM at the time in boyahda and keep my filters on when i play healer, but chain9 on crabs, what happened was from what i understood from the JP, each nin and thf had a SATA partner on the opposite side, and they'd make it so not everyone goes at once. Combined with a 400-500 SATA stab right at the beggining of the fight, combined with the fact that the nins knew to bring DD gear since crabs arent exactly the hardest mobs in the game, the exp flew. The bard dispelled, I dispelled, everyone was fine This was one of my funnest parties ever, everyone but me was a taru. I was also MB'ing anytime I could. The crabs were low IT, more VT, everyone used Damage food/armor, etc. Good party.

I actually repeated this party on my low lvl THF in altepa, chaining dhalmel, and beetles to keep it going, the thing that would stop the chain was multiple healing breeze.

[Nirokun!]

cure V is the most efficient spell if you look at the modifiers it has with mnd >_> lol, the soft cap is so easily broken~

it doesnt matter to me anyways, i have a cure gearswap macro that i use occasionaly, but i live and breath regen (*'3')<3

[Priran]

Cure 5 is 135 MP, and has a soft cap of 590(right?), which is 4.37~ HP/MP.

I didn't even know it had a soft cap, I heal around 710 with a Light Staff onry at Lv.70.

[Eromenos-Ifrit]

I cure for about 830 with nobles and light staff and mnd gear with cure V. by far the most mp efficent

[further]

3 RNG, NIN, RDM, BRD would demolish your PT at lv57....2years ago :wink:

THOSE WERE THE DAYS MANG

[Brennon]

answering the OP:

I'd hope not considering this is probably the least understood of the new jobs, we've barely begun to see what the job has to offer. So far (up to level 20) i've been going the DD route, and am doing comparable damage to other melees i've partied with. It's very handy for crowd control, and tanking in a pinch as well. And who knows what else? One of the big draws for me was its customizability. Who can fully predict the innovative and creative ways this job will be used? Since i've leveled it to only 20 so far, i'm still experimenting and trying alot of different things. Despite what some say it *is* a capable solo job, perhaps not quite as much as BST who can charm new mobs almost as often as they want to, we have more control and a wider variety of what abilities the puppets have.

I definately have some... issues i guess, some things that i'd personally like to see changed/made better about the job, but maybe they'll balance out in time. I'm not saying the job is perfect. Maybe if I had my wishes too, the job would be overpowered, though. My point is, I would hope people wouldn't be so quick to assume the job sucks based on rather limited reporting so far.

In any case, personally, I enjoy the job. I feel that if you invite me to DD i'd be as capable as other DD's you may have to choose from, and more versatile as well. Perhaps we havn't found our "niche" yet, but as more people get higher level, I'm sure we will.