Puppet Master the next Dragoon

[layoneil]

whatever

lol elitist.

fake elitist, he used MNK AF Body all the way to 75.

---

PUP definitely has issues, the job itself as you get higher and higher will be worse and worse. it has minimal melee equipment selection and it's highest skill is C+ at best. a WHM can easily outdamage a PUP meleeing Lv 60+ if they choose to do so.

you'd think if you can't melee well than you should sub a mage job and support cure. but PUP has no natural MP, no Auto-Refresh and worse of all when the PUP rests so does the Auto, which disables the Auto's ability to damage deal, tank or whatever.

on top of that you can't use Cure spells on the Automation. the Automation even though it can be equipped can not be as well equipped as a melee or a "real tank". the Automation can not have Songs casted on it, can not be hasted.

the job has potential but it's missing a lot of things to be fully functional as you get up in the higher levels.

[Brennon]

whatever

lol elitist.

fake elitist, he used MNK AF Body all the way to 75.

---

PUP definitely has issues, the job itself as you get higher and higher will be worse and worse. it has minimal melee equipment selection and it's highest skill is C+ at best. a WHM can easily outdamage a PUP meleeing Lv 60+ if they choose to do so.

you'd think if you can't melee well than you should sub a mage job and support cure. but PUP has no natural MP, no Auto-Refresh and worse of all when the PUP rests so does the Auto, which disables the Auto's ability to damage deal, tank or whatever.

on top of that you can't use Cure spells on the Automation. the Automation even though it can be equipped can not be as well equipped as a melee or a "real tank". the Automation can not have Songs casted on it, can not be hasted.

the job has potential but it's missing a lot of things to be fully functional as you get up in the higher levels.

Could you point me to a source for this? I've looked, and I've heard alot of people say this, but what is the original source?

ninja edit: i agree with you about some of its short comings, but i'm willing to bet we'll be surprised as more information is discovered about the higher levels of puppetmaster. I'll use shield bash as an example. Before anyone saw the puppet use that ability, who knew it was coming? Nobody did. What other abilities may the puppet get as it gets higher level? We have yet to see.

[Ankiseth]

I've heard people say PUP gets Asuran Fists o.0

They can't use any type of Cesti which sucks (booo destroyers) but they can use Indra Katars which is alright by me, since I have both and NIN can't use either so my mannequins wear them.

[Takeno]

whatever

lol elitist.

fake elitist, he used MNK AF Body all the way to 75.

---

PUP definitely has issues, the job itself as you get higher and higher will be worse and worse. it has minimal melee equipment selection and it's highest skill is C+ at best. a WHM can easily outdamage a PUP meleeing Lv 60+ if they choose to do so.

you'd think if you can't melee well than you should sub a mage job and support cure. but PUP has no natural MP, no Auto-Refresh and worse of all when the PUP rests so does the Auto, which disables the Auto's ability to damage deal, tank or whatever.

on top of that you can't use Cure spells on the Automation. the Automation even though it can be equipped can not be as well equipped as a melee or a "real tank". the Automation can not have Songs casted on it, can not be hasted.

the job has potential but it's missing a lot of things to be fully functional as you get up in the higher levels.

Could you point me to a source for this? I've looked, and I've heard alot of people say this, but what is the original source?

ninja edit: i agree with you about some of its short comings, but i'm willing to bet we'll be surprised as more information is discovered about the higher levels of puppetmaster. I'll use shield bash as an example. Before anyone saw the puppet use that ability, who knew it was coming? Nobody did. What other abilities may the puppet get as it gets higher level? We have yet to see.

Check your skills, then check your monk's skills at the same level. Notice the huge gap, say its about C+. Probably how lolz

[Brennon]

whatever

lol elitist.

fake elitist, he used MNK AF Body all the way to 75.

---

PUP definitely has issues, the job itself as you get higher and higher will be worse and worse. it has minimal melee equipment selection and it's highest skill is C+ at best. a WHM can easily outdamage a PUP meleeing Lv 60+ if they choose to do so.

you'd think if you can't melee well than you should sub a mage job and support cure. but PUP has no natural MP, no Auto-Refresh and worse of all when the PUP rests so does the Auto, which disables the Auto's ability to damage deal, tank or whatever.

on top of that you can't use Cure spells on the Automation. the Automation even though it can be equipped can not be as well equipped as a melee or a "real tank". the Automation can not have Songs casted on it, can not be hasted.

the job has potential but it's missing a lot of things to be fully functional as you get up in the higher levels.

Could you point me to a source for this? I've looked, and I've heard alot of people say this, but what is the original source?

ninja edit: i agree with you about some of its short comings, but i'm willing to bet we'll be surprised as more information is discovered about the higher levels of puppetmaster. I'll use shield bash as an example. Before anyone saw the puppet use that ability, who knew it was coming? Nobody did. What other abilities may the puppet get as it gets higher level? We have yet to see.

Check your skills, then check your monk's skills at the same level. Notice the huge gap, say its about C+. Probably how lolz

I have capped h2h merits, which complicates doing that somewhat, especially at this low level of pup.

[rahskala]

Didn't Square mention something about a "moogle" automaton frame once? I'm pretty sure there are more out there than the four we know of right now (hybrid/melee/ranged/caster).

It's true that the PUP's melee damage output might not be all that great, but you can't discount the damage that the automaton itself does. The pup/auto team may be able to dish out some respectable damage at higher levels, who knows.

Either way, I love the job so far. Last night I was doing Detonation chains with my puppet (Combo -> melee frame WS). It's like an NPC fellow with a customizable AI and no retarded 20-hour resummon timer.

[BlackSkye]

I've heard people say they cannot use the Trail Knuckles so, if they truely can use Asuran, you gotta learn it on at 71+ MNK.


Btw CureV has no cap, ive seen it heal for over 850 when someone loaded up on MND. Then again, rarely are you going to be relying on Cure5 on anything important... much less why are you letting tanks go to 30% HP anyways. =) And if they do go that low, someone else will also heal and you will waste thier mp/yours.

CureV is very efficient, but not very practical to use very commonly

[layoneil]

Could you point me to a source for this? I've looked, and I've heard alot of people say this, but what is the original source?

umm... check your stat screen and look at the number.

than match up the skill level with the job level on this chart
http://www.ausystem.org/~aushacho/gbox/ ... l-e.html#4

there's no such thing as + and - until the job gets to 60. for now you can only tell it's C. C+ is the hopeful estimate.

I've heard people say PUP gets Asuran Fists o.0

you can't get Asuran Fists without 250 skill, C+ caps out at 230 at level 75.

[layoneil]

I have capped h2h merits, which complicates doing that somewhat, especially at this low level of pup.

what level is your PUP? you can calculate how much of your H2H skill is from Merits. if you are Lv 11-20, you have 2 skill from merits, if you are Lv 21-30, you have 4 skill from merits.

adjust accordingly. my Lv 20 PUP with no H2H merits has 58 Skill, if you don't want to do your own analysis.

[BlackSkye]

Could you point me to a source for this? I've looked, and I've heard alot of people say this, but what is the original source?

umm... check your stat screen and look at the number.

than match up the skill level with the job level on this chart
http://www.ausystem.org/~aushacho/gbox/ ... l-e.html#4

there's no such thing as + and - until the job gets to 60. for now you can only tell it's C. C+ is the hopeful estimate.

I've heard people say PUP gets Asuran Fists o.0

you can't get Asuran Fists without 250 skill, C+ caps out at 230 at level 75.

A little back up on here is 8 merits in H2H would put you at 246 also, still too low... but maybe with a Faith Torque... Whoever reaches 75 and has MNK learned Asuran will have to test it, I suppose

[layoneil]

merits do not give you access to the WS quests, it was explicitly stated on the patch notes.

and someone can double check the .dats, PUP should not even be able to equip the Trial Knuckles.

but IF you have 250 skill from merits and maybe equipment, and you have MNK to 75, you might be able to use it. but that's a real big stretch and not how the job was designed.

[Dezzimal]

Could you point me to a source for this? I've looked, and I've heard alot of people say this, but what is the original source?

umm... check your stat screen and look at the number.

than match up the skill level with the job level on this chart
http://www.ausystem.org/~aushacho/gbox/ ... l-e.html#4

there's no such thing as + and - until the job gets to 60. for now you can only tell it's C. C+ is the hopeful estimate.

I've heard people say PUP gets Asuran Fists o.0

you can't get Asuran Fists without 250 skill, C+ caps out at 230 at level 75.

also, forr every 10 levels past level 10 you get access to another h2h merit as well. So if you're 10-19, subtract 2 skill levels to get the "true" skill, 20-29 subtract 4 etc...

[Brennon]

My h2h skill at 20 is 62.

Interestingly, my guarding and evasion are 60, and i've merited neither of those. Which puts them as B skills.

The automaton melee skill at 20 is also 60, a B skill.

Neither of those (weapon) skills are spectacular by themselves, but with both, I don't think its bad.

[Ksandra]

part of the problem with pup meleeing is people keep looking at either the puppet itself or the master itself. The master alone does weak dmg compared to other melees, and the puppet alone does fairly decent but not as strong dmg compared to other melees. However peeple really need to keep in mind they have to combine both the dmg output of master and puppet to get a sense of how strong they are.

Also there are a few things wroking against us that should improve over time.

1. We still have no real sense (hopefully when they release the AF we'll have a starting point) on what stat (if any) boosts the ai reaction or strength of the puppet. Most pup are trying to boost their strength where they can (ie. rings) but we may find out latter that boosting our chr will make the puppets a lot stronger and thus better dd. We really don't know yet so are fighting blind atm whereas previous jobs already know what they need to equip.

2. Atm we (at least I feel) have few attachements for our pup. SE started us off with a nice range to get us learning how to use them effectively, but if you think about it only 8(?) can be crafted. I get the strong feeling as SE updates more and more ToAU content they will release more recipes for attachements which will probably help us more in trying to make ourselfs good at DDing.

3. AFAIK monk for the most part wear only light armor too. The difference is they have the whole eastern sets, but those aren't original pieces. When the game started they were wearing basically the same types of gear pup are wearing. As with the attachments I wouldn't be surprised if SE plans on releasing more pup-type gear (that goes for cor and blu as well) once they get a sense fo how people are playing the class. (I remember there wasn't a whole lot of eva gear for nin, most of it was for mages, but when SE realized that people were going to tank no matter what they started releasing more eva gear for them...even though now nin tend to focus more on str. XD)

4. Just to reitirate on the C+ rating of H2H, again remember when you invite the pup into your party you are not geting a gimp monk with C+rating, you are getting a strong pet with a weaker master, but combining the dmg of the strong puppet with the weaker dmg of the c+ rated master, should still mae decent DD.

5. Lastly remember there is no pup af nor any pup at lvl 75 yet (though it's getting close). There is no way to look at other classes to judge just how strong a puppet becomes by the time it's 75. Smn avatars have this long period between like lvl 30-lvl 70 (I'm estimating since my smn is only 47), when their avatars' dmg is basically useless in xp pts. But after 70 they become ridiculously strong, and make great DD under many situations. For all we know the puppets may end up like this. We do know that as the puppet gains skills, it gains different abilities/ws/magic. Until we start seeing pup at 75 we can't really say how they'll be overall.


orz long post sorry I'm done. XD

[Brennon]

For all we know the puppets may end up like this. We do know that as the puppet gains skills, it gains different abilities/ws/magic. Until we start seeing pup at 75 we can't really say how they'll be overall.

Your whole post was spot on, but I wanted to QFT this.

[Xavier]

Level Blue Mage. Its practically invincible and does everything any other job can.

[Not Kuno]

Smn avatars have this long period between like lvl 30-lvl 70 (I'm estimating since my smn is only 47), when their avatars' dmg is basically useless in xp pts. But after 70 they become ridiculously strong, and make great DD under many situations.

SMN is completely useless in xp pt. Although at 50 they get double slap which can out dmg regular melee if both slaps hit. o.O But yeah otherwise useless.

I think Pup will be better then drg because they're more customizable and have stoneskin.

[Siatdiat]

PUP is fun as shit, i dont care if its a strong job and if thats what you base your game playing decisions on thats your problem. Not directed at any particular person, but really, well see how the job works out, but despite its usefulness in a group Im loving it.

[layoneil]

it can definitely be a good job, the Automation scales better than the PUP, it has more HP than the PUP at the least if you're using the right frames.

and yes, combined the PUP and the Automation in an XP PT can probably be decent all the way to 75 but you also have to think of HNM situations.

will the Auto be able to scale high enough that it has enough Attack to hit Demon NMs in Dynamis-Xarc without the benefit of Minuet IV? there are a lot of melee jobs now that still hit for 0s on those high defense NMs sometimes without a BRD.

will they have enough accuracy without Sushi or +50 Accuracy from equipment, is the current attachment enough?

will the mage type have enough MP to be effective if Refresh and Ballad can't be cast on it.

i can't see how an Automation can main tank an HNM, though at the lower levels it does have the tools to tank (Provoke, Flash, Cures, decent HP, decent melee damage).

it's not a totally craptastic job but right now, but of the 3 new jobs, it seems to need the most "hope" to be useful endgame. everything hinges on hoping that the Automation scales really well.

[Brennon]

Level Blue Mage. Its practically invincible and does everything any other job can.

BLU looks interesting, but to me, pup looks more interesting. I'll stick with pup. I don't need to hop on any bandwagons to feel validated.