Odin !?

[Stellar]

lol, that's the dumbest thing i've ever heard.. Since a monster is pretty easy, need ways to add more epeen to it.. omg my LS doesn't use the wall, we pwn.. Who cares if someone uses it or not? I think if you dont use it, you're dumb for not taking advantage of the terrain.

Do you not use the cliff on Dynamis Lord either because its cheap?

[Koga]

lol, that's the dumbest thing i've ever heard.. Since a monster is pretty easy, need ways to add more epeen to it.. omg my LS doesn't use the wall, we pwn.. Who cares if someone uses it or not? I think if you dont use it, you're dumb for not taking advantage of the terrain.

Do you not use the cliff on Dynamis Lord either because its cheap?

We don't.

[Not Kuno]

lol, that's the dumbest thing i've ever heard.. Since a monster is pretty easy, need ways to add more epeen to it.. omg my LS doesn't use the wall, we pwn.. Who cares if someone uses it or not? I think if you dont use it, you're dumb for not taking advantage of the terrain.

Do you not use the cliff on Dynamis Lord either because its cheap?

We don't.

What cliff?

[Koga]

lol, that's the dumbest thing i've ever heard.. Since a monster is pretty easy, need ways to add more epeen to it.. omg my LS doesn't use the wall, we pwn.. Who cares if someone uses it or not? I think if you dont use it, you're dumb for not taking advantage of the terrain.

Do you not use the cliff on Dynamis Lord either because its cheap?

We don't.

What cliff?

The chasm's in the hill I think hes talking about >_>;
God knowing Kuno .. that was sarcasm and i'm newb.

[Khamsin]

lol, that's the dumbest thing i've ever heard.. Since a monster is pretty easy, need ways to add more epeen to it.. omg my LS doesn't use the wall, we pwn.. Who cares if someone uses it or not? I think if you dont use it, you're dumb for not taking advantage of the terrain.

Do you not use the cliff on Dynamis Lord either because its cheap?

We just use a party of RDM/DRK.

[Lockecole]

Maybe he just had Stoneskin up and that's why he did 0 dmg to it.

He must be manaburned. 60 BLM can take him down, if they catch him in Mt Zhayolm and draw him to Cerberus' wall (of justice).

They fixed it terms of aggro >.>
but not with TP Moves ... gg SE gg...

Well its only essentially "fixed" in that a mob needs some sort of draw-in to make terrain useless. AV didnt have it, he has it now. Cerb will draw anyone in who's not down in that pit, so that wasnt changed so much. AOE should be changed though to affect players on a seperate and higher terrain level, since being above a mob and not getting hit by AOEs seriously doesnt make sense. If you use the wall on Cerb, you're gay. Or your LS sucks. Or both.

LOL,is called tactics,cerberus is always able to draw in and kill you,not like AV before.Thats like say that fight fafnir in the feet is gay because Spike Flail is more challenged.

My bad, your tactics are amazing. I thought tactics were about having good tanks and mages, who could afford to stand out of AOE range, and know they won't pull hate, and being able have an alliance setup where you dont need to have people abusing a wall trick in order to win.

Apparently I'm misguided, standing above a mob, where none of its AOEs (the only part that makes Cerberus difficult) have any effect on the majority of your LS is the definition of tactics.

On that note, brb, killing Cerberus with 13 people and no wall.

[NynJa]

who the fuck cares about cerberus ?

[Kaylia]

who the fuck cares about cerberus ?

I'm not sure, but I think people are in need of drama since ToA release. Nothing happened for weeks now.

[Cyberfoxx]

[quote=Lockecole]

Maybe he just had Stoneskin up and that's why he did 0 dmg to it.

He must be manaburned. 60 BLM can take him down, if they catch him in Mt Zhayolm and draw him to Cerberus' wall (of justice).

They fixed it terms of aggro >.>
but not with TP Moves ... gg SE gg...

Well its only essentially "fixed" in that a mob needs some sort of draw-in to make terrain useless. AV didnt have it, he has it now. Cerb will draw anyone in who's not down in that pit, so that wasnt changed so much. AOE should be changed though to affect players on a seperate and higher terrain level, since being above a mob and not getting hit by AOEs seriously doesnt make sense. If you use the wall on Cerb, you're gay. Or your LS sucks. Or both.

LOL,is called tactics,cerberus is always able to draw in and kill you,not like AV before.Thats like say that fight fafnir in the feet is gay because Spike Flail is more challenged.

My bad, your tactics are amazing. I thought tactics were about having good tanks and mages, who could afford to stand out of AOE range, and know they won't pull hate, and being able have an alliance setup where you dont need to have people abusing a wall trick in order to win.

Apparently I'm misguided, standing above a mob, where none of its AOEs (the only part that makes Cerberus difficult) have any effect on the majority of your LS is the definition of tactics.

On that note, brb, killing Cerberus with 13 people and no wall.[/quote:e30ca]
Whats the difference of be out of range or be upside a wall? Do you remember this is a game 3d not a game boy game in 2d?

[Stellar]

There's cliff's leading all the way up to Dynamis Lord.. if by chance he happens to get an Oblivion Smash off between stuns, the mages take no damage..

But yea, i'm sure your stunners are so pro Dynamis Lord has never used a TP attack

brb, gotta think of ways to stroke me e-penis..

[Mysterio]

shut up shut up

I can't hear myself think!

[Cautery]

Needs more Wall-o-Justice

* fixed again.

Odin is going to become the new Absolute Virtue. Need 24hrs LB holding and then try to find someting out.

[Khamsin]

Needs more Wall-o-Justice

* fixed again.

Odin is going to become the new Absolute Virtue. Need 24hrs LB holding and then try to find someting out.

Only, this time, you don't have to spend months mindnumbingly farming with horrible drop rates for a shot at him. And if you wipe, he's still around... somewhere. You can actually sleep between attempts.

[Delekii]

lol@people who complain about using the wall on cerberus. Unlike AV, its pretty fucking obvious that SE thought about it before they even implemented him, and its no big deal. It takes all of one second to find max casting range to your tanks and then you may aswell be on the wall in any event. Whats the difference again? I bet that even for those LS's that stay on the ground level for some ridiculously virtuous reason have 6/10 mages using distance plugin making it even easier to maintain range from AoE.

People will whinge at anything these days -_-

[Lockecole]

lol@people who complain about using the wall on cerberus. Unlike AV, its pretty fucking obvious that SE thought about it before they even implemented him, and its no big deal. It takes all of one second to find max casting range to your tanks and then you may aswell be on the wall in any event. Whats the difference again? I bet that even for those LS's that stay on the ground level for some ridiculously virtuous reason have 6/10 mages using distance plugin making it even easier to maintain range from AoE.

People will whinge at anything these days -_-

Sorry if some of us are upset about SE making an already easy HNM that much easier by implementing terrain that effects a broken aspect of the game.

[Pico]

lol@people who complain about using the wall on cerberus. Unlike AV, its pretty fucking obvious that SE thought about it before they even implemented him, and its no big deal. It takes all of one second to find max casting range to your tanks and then you may aswell be on the wall in any event. Whats the difference again? I bet that even for those LS's that stay on the ground level for some ridiculously virtuous reason have 6/10 mages using distance plugin making it even easier to maintain range from AoE.

People will whinge at anything these days -_-

Sorry if some of us are upset about SE making an already easy HNM that much easier by implementing terrain that effects a broken aspect of the game.

Like cyber said, what is the difference between standing out of aoe range and on a wall out of aoe range?

[Arvin]

lol@people who complain about using the wall on cerberus. Unlike AV, its pretty fucking obvious that SE thought about it before they even implemented him, and its no big deal. It takes all of one second to find max casting range to your tanks and then you may aswell be on the wall in any event. Whats the difference again? I bet that even for those LS's that stay on the ground level for some ridiculously virtuous reason have 6/10 mages using distance plugin making it even easier to maintain range from AoE.

People will whinge at anything these days -_-

Sorry if some of us are upset about SE making an already easy HNM that much easier by implementing terrain that effects a broken aspect of the game.

Just.. wow.

They implemented it in for a reason.. and it's not like he doesn't draw you in. You can not compare using that wall with the absolute virtue trick what so ever.

The difference is clear.. AV you stand behind a wall that keeps him from destroying your mages. Before they fix'd it, or whatever. He DID NOT draw in.. which made this fight stupid.

Cerberus, the wall is just implemented so you can avoid AOE. If you pull hate, you get drawn in and thrown down to cerberus.


You're using the same logic as someone who would say standing on fafnirs feet to avoid getting full breathed is an exploit, or the elevation difference at Tiamat's spawn camp is an exploit.


IMPLEMENTING TERRAIN ON A 3D GAME IS NOT A BROKEN ASPECT OF A GAME LOL.

[Lockecole]

lol@people who complain about using the wall on cerberus. Unlike AV, its pretty fucking obvious that SE thought about it before they even implemented him, and its no big deal. It takes all of one second to find max casting range to your tanks and then you may aswell be on the wall in any event. Whats the difference again? I bet that even for those LS's that stay on the ground level for some ridiculously virtuous reason have 6/10 mages using distance plugin making it even easier to maintain range from AoE.

People will whinge at anything these days -_-

Sorry if some of us are upset about SE making an already easy HNM that much easier by implementing terrain that effects a broken aspect of the game.

Alot of stuff taken out of context.

I'm not comparing AV and Cerberus....my LS was the one who figured out AV has draw in, and I realize the two are nothing alike. My point was, that using terrain to escape the affects of an AOE, is a known problem in the game, it is not a "strategy" that SE implemented on purpose. I can stand in one spot near Tiamat and not have his wing hit me, and move closer, but onto a different altitude, and never have an AOE hit me at all. Now tell me how that makes sense?

Moving out of the RANGE OF AN AOE, i.e. the Conical range of a breath move (your faf example), or the distance required to be away from AOEs in order to not get hit, cannot be compared to moving above an AOE, by standing on a wall. You think SE seriously meant to make an HNM who's sole ability to wipe an alliance in any shape or form is via deadly AOEs, and then made a way to escape that sole attack?

Regardless of wether or not they meant to do it, it cheapens the strategy of a mob, and basically turns Cerberus into a (excuse the pun) a dog thats all bark, and no bite...allowing people who really shouldnt be killing him, the chance to win. (Trust me, I've seen it, an LS wipe 4 times in a row, then use the wall and still barley win.) Who cares if mages who will never have enough hate to be drawn in, can be drawn in. It won't happen, so the fact that they can Stun, nuke, debuff, refresh, cure, all while being right by the mob, and not having to worry about paralyna and 1000 AOEs due to the mob moving is pretty big.

Lol again at the Fafnir example. How many times does that have to be compared to AV and this before enough people completely show how the two are different. If Cerberus wasn't stunnable I'd be telling you to use the wall all you want. It's obvious this was a fight for DRKs, due to his drops, weakness to melee, and strategy revolving around being stunned.

[Pico]

I'm not comparing AV and Cerberus....my LS was the one who figured out AV has draw in, and I realize the two are nothing alike. My point was, that using terrain to escape the affects of an AOE, is a known problem in the game, it is not a "strategy" that SE implemented on purpose. I can stand in one spot near Tiamat and not have his wing hit me, and move closer, but onto a different altitude, and never have an AOE hit me at all. Now tell me how that makes sense?

Moving out of the RANGE OF AN AOE, i.e. the Conical range of a breath move (your faf example), or the distance required to be away from AOEs in order to not get hit, cannot be compared to moving above an AOE, by standing on a wall. You think SE seriously meant to make an HNM who's sole ability to wipe an alliance in any shape or form is via deadly AOEs, and then made a way to escape that sole attack?

Regardless of wether or not they meant to do it, it cheapens the strategy of a mob, and basically turns Cerberus into a (excuse the pun) a dog thats all bark, and no bite...allowing people who really shouldnt be killing him, the chance to win. (Trust me, I've seen it, an LS wipe 4 times in a row, then use the wall and still barley win.) Who cares if mages who will never have enough hate to be drawn in, can be drawn in. It won't happen, so the fact that they can Stun, nuke, debuff, refresh, cure, all while being right by the mob, and not having to worry about paralyna and 1000 AOEs due to the mob moving is pretty big.

Lol again at the Fafnir example. How many times does that have to be compared to AV and this before enough people completely show how the two are different. If Cerberus wasn't stunnable I'd be telling you to use the wall all you want. It's obvious this was a fight for DRKs, due to his drops, weakness to melee, and strategy revolving around being stunned.

If your mages won't take hate up on the wall, they won't take hate down in the pit. Both out of aoe range down in the pit, and out of aoe range up on the wall accomplish the same thing... why this is even being questioned I don't know.

[Lockecole]

I'm not comparing AV and Cerberus....my LS was the one who figured out AV has draw in, and I realize the two are nothing alike. My point was, that using terrain to escape the affects of an AOE, is a known problem in the game, it is not a "strategy" that SE implemented on purpose. I can stand in one spot near Tiamat and not have his wing hit me, and move closer, but onto a different altitude, and never have an AOE hit me at all. Now tell me how that makes sense?

Moving out of the RANGE OF AN AOE, i.e. the Conical range of a breath move (your faf example), or the distance required to be away from AOEs in order to not get hit, cannot be compared to moving above an AOE, by standing on a wall. You think SE seriously meant to make an HNM who's sole ability to wipe an alliance in any shape or form is via deadly AOEs, and then made a way to escape that sole attack?

Regardless of wether or not they meant to do it, it cheapens the strategy of a mob, and basically turns Cerberus into a (excuse the pun) a dog thats all bark, and no bite...allowing people who really shouldnt be killing him, the chance to win. (Trust me, I've seen it, an LS wipe 4 times in a row, then use the wall and still barley win.) Who cares if mages who will never have enough hate to be drawn in, can be drawn in. It won't happen, so the fact that they can Stun, nuke, debuff, refresh, cure, all while being right by the mob, and not having to worry about paralyna and 1000 AOEs due to the mob moving is pretty big.

Lol again at the Fafnir example. How many times does that have to be compared to AV and this before enough people completely show how the two are different. If Cerberus wasn't stunnable I'd be telling you to use the wall all you want. It's obvious this was a fight for DRKs, due to his drops, weakness to melee, and strategy revolving around being stunned.

If your mages won't take hate up on the wall, they won't take hate down in the pit. Both out of aoe range down in the pit, and out of aoe range up on the wall accomplish the same thing... why this is even being questioned I don't know.

One mage pulling hate = every mage getting paralyzed/wiped when everyone is down below.

One mage pulling hate = one person getting paralyzed, and one person getting killed by Gates when everyone is up on the wall.

Hmm one person dying compared to a whole alliance of mages being wiped. (and inturn everyone meleeing/tanks also) Still fail to see the difference? Use the wall all you want, I think it ruins the feeling of tension and necessity to stun, and inturn 95% of the whole fun of the fight. I don't fault LSes for it though, people fleehack to kill Vrtras so its obvious people will do anything for a kill/drop. I fault the creators for not adjusting AOEs to hit all levels of altitudes. This game is easy as it is once you've discovered how to kill a mob, we don't need flaws in the game to make it worse.