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  1. #1
    Physicist
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    Monsters and Enmity(04/28/2006)

    In the version update news released on April 17, there was a brief explanation of the changes made to claiming monsters. We would now like to expand upon that explanation to give players a concrete idea of how the process of claiming monsters has been altered.

    To state things clearly, only the conditions for “claiming” a monster have been changed--the process through which a monster chooses a target based on enmity remains the same.

    ************************************************** **********

    Example
    Player A is fighting two monsters, M1 and M2, and has generated enmity from both creatures. However, since Player A can only claim one monster at a time, let us assume he currently has a claim on M1. The second monster, M2, is free to be attacked by any other player.

    Now Player B appears and begins to attack M2.

    Player B has begun to generate enmity from M2, but as long as the enmity generated by Player A remains greater, M2 will continue to attack Player A. And since Player A still maintains greater enmity, Player B cannot claim M2. (This is the main change that was made in the recent version update. Previously, Player B would immediately claim M2 regardless of the amount of enmity.)

    Player B continues to attack M2, eventually generating enough enmity to override the enmity held by Player A. Now M2 turns to attack Player B. And since M2 has switched its target to Player B, Player B now claims the monster.

    * The following line has been removed from the version update news to help avoid any confusion: “Accordingly, players will no longer be attacked by monsters that they themselves are unable to attack.”

    ************************************************** **********

    While this change prevents certain instances of MPK, it is still possible for a player to become the target of a monster he does not have a claim on. Consider the following situations.

    Situation 1

    Player A has claimed monster M and is being assisted by Player B (not in Player A’s party).
    Player B generates enmity from M by curing Player A. If the enmity generated by Player B overrides the enmity generated by Player A, the monster will move to attack Player B, while still being claimed by Player A. Player B will be unable to attack M.

    To prevent this from happening, Player B must moderate his curing assistance, or Player A must somehow generate more enmity from M through attacks or abilities.
    It is also possible for Player B to join Player A’s party, or for Player A to choose Call For Help, so that Player B no longer has to suffer a one-sided battle with M.

    Situation 2

    Player C has claimed monster M. Player C then loses his claim on M by disengaging from battle or by putting too much distance between them.
    While M is unclaimed, Player D appears. Player D manages to claim M by generating more enmity than Player C. At this point, M holds enmity towards both Player C and Player D.

    Although M is now claimed by Player D, it is still possible for Player C to perform an action that will generate more enmity than Player D. Should this occur, M will then move to attack Player C while still being claimed by Player D. M will continue to attack Player C as long as Player C maintains the greater amount of enmity. However, Player C is unable to attack M.

    To prevent this situation from happening, Player C must take care not to lose his claim on M. After Player D has claimed M in the above situation, Player C cannot reclaim M no matter how much enmity he generates, unless Player D chooses to disengage from battle.

    ************************************************** **********

    This change was implemented to help reduce the instances of MPK, and we hope the above explanation helps players to avoid finding themselves in similar situations.
    lol...

    So yeah, this change affected dia'ing slept Darters in Aery and nothing else. Basically if there is only 1 mob involved in the scenario, you lose claim you're fucked.

  2. #2

    better yet

    now someone can cast sleepga on the darters
    and you can cast dia without stealing claim and they cant claim MPK!

  3. #3

    No, it should affect KB too, if the group fighting it is sloppy and doesn't try to maintain claim (ie casting a fast spell on it during meteor). So long as your group has more overall hate than everyone else, other groups will not be allowed to claim it if it somehow goes unclaimed. Just have to be aware that if it does go unclaimed you've only got a bit of time before someone else will claim it.

  4. #4
    Physicist
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    Quote Originally Posted by inafume
    No, it should affect KB too, if the group fighting it is sloppy and doesn't try to maintain claim (ie casting a fast spell on it during meteor). So long as your group has more overall hate than everyone else, other groups will not be allowed to claim it if it somehow goes unclaimed. Just have to be aware that if it does go unclaimed you've only got a bit of time before someone else will claim it.
    Situation 2

    Player C has claimed monster M. Player C then loses his claim on M by disengaging from battle or by putting too much distance between them.
    While M is unclaimed, Player D appears. Player D manages to claim M by generating more enmity than Player C. At this point, M holds enmity towards both Player C and Player D.

    Although M is now claimed by Player D, it is still possible for Player C to perform an action that will generate more enmity than Player D. Should this occur, M will then move to attack Player C while still being claimed by Player D. M will continue to attack Player C as long as Player C maintains the greater amount of enmity. However, Player C is unable to attack M.

    To prevent this situation from happening, Player C must take care not to lose his claim on M. After Player D has claimed M in the above situation, Player C cannot reclaim M no matter how much enmity he generates, unless Player D chooses to disengage from battle.
    Read this more carefully.

  5. #5
    ExcaliMod
    Paper Towels? Who needs paper towels, Under the sink they go!

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    this is a pretty cool patch theyve added and i found it very useful

    A cool way to see how this works, go to the boats to ToAU. Go claim a fish a do like a voke/stun, do a little bit of dmg. Then disengage and let it go unclaimed. Someone will try to claim, youll see a voke or flash or so. They might even try attacking it. If they havent done a lot of dmg or spammed to much itll still attack you and at anytime you can get claim back by simply voking or hitting it or something.

    Like the previous poster said, this is especially useful for something like KB. If they are sloppy and disengage or lose claim, the PLD or someone can get it right back. Same with Faffnir. I watch and alliance somehow lose claim, someone outside tried to voke, nothing. Main alliance got it right back by voking back.

    Only drawback is if it goes unclaimed, then someone outside kills it. drops and exp are lost.

  6. #6
    Relic Horn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tekki
    Only drawback is if it goes unclaimed, then someone outside kills it. drops and exp are lost.
    No, you (the ones with claim) still get the exp and drops if you were the ones with the most enmity. I tested this D:

  7. #7
    ExcaliMod
    Paper Towels? Who needs paper towels, Under the sink they go!

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    hmm maybe im just unlucky on all the crap ive tested and never gotten a drop lol

  8. #8

    Quote Originally Posted by Raineer
    Situation 2

    Player C has claimed monster M. Player C then loses his claim on M by disengaging from battle or by putting too much distance between them.
    While M is unclaimed, Player D appears.Player D manages to claim M by generating more enmity than Player C. At this point, M holds enmity towards both Player C and Player D.

    Although M is now claimed by Player D, it is still possible for Player C to perform an action that will generate more enmity than Player D. Should this occur, M will then move to attack Player C while still being claimed by Player D. M will continue to attack Player C as long as Player C maintains the greater amount of enmity. However, Player C is unable to attack M.

    To prevent this situation from happening, Player C must take care not to lose his claim on M. After Player D has claimed M in the above situation, Player C cannot reclaim M no matter how much enmity he generates, unless Player D chooses to disengage from battle.
    Read this more carefully.
    The parts of the paragraphs you underlined won't take effect unless the part that I bolded happens. My point still stands. If it unclaims, outside groups still have to build enough hate to be able to claim it, otherwise the original group should be able to easily reclaim it (if it was an unclaim glitch - if they were wiping then all bets are off).

    Of course I still think people should do everything in their power to keep claim. I'm just of the opinion that an unclaim glitch won't as easily screw over a shell now like it would've in the past.

  9. #9

    Quote Originally Posted by WizerdRemora
    Quote Originally Posted by Tekki
    Only drawback is if it goes unclaimed, then someone outside kills it. drops and exp are lost.
    No, you (the ones with claim) still get the exp and drops if you were the ones with the most enmity. I tested this D:
    So when PL someone. Let's say u PL 1 person. That person can hit the mob, take it down to 49% HP (without you doing anything) and then disengage, you hit it with thunder IV and the low lvl dude still gets full exp and drops?

  10. #10
    Relic Shield
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raineer
    Basically if there is only 1 mob involved in the scenario, you lose claim you're fucked.
    No, it still helps with only one mob involved like Inafume said. If you lose claim for whatever reason, then the people trying to steal claim would need to generate more hate than the person with hate. If you're not able to reclaim before that hapens, that is when you have problems.

    You should try it out yourself and see. Beat a mob to say 50% and disengage and have someone try to take it from you. It takes some time before the other person will be able to claim it.

  11. #11
    Weaboo of the House of Weave
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarune
    Quote Originally Posted by WizerdRemora
    Quote Originally Posted by Tekki
    Only drawback is if it goes unclaimed, then someone outside kills it. drops and exp are lost.
    No, you (the ones with claim) still get the exp and drops if you were the ones with the most enmity. I tested this D:
    So when PL someone. Let's say u PL 1 person. That person can hit the mob, take it down to 49% HP (without you doing anything) and then disengage, you hit it with thunder IV and the low lvl dude still gets full exp and drops?
    since you hit the mob as an obviously 75 blm that'll nerf their exp. but yeah.

  12. #12

    Sounds like this could help with farming so people aren't pulling off all the mobs you rounded up (Goobues or Elementals) so long as you have more hate than them.

  13. #13
    Relic Shield
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    It doesn't work properly with bst pets I don't think. BST pet had hate from 2 monters and I pulled one. I had claim and it attacked the pet. No matter how much dmg I did, it would not attack me. I got half xp after the fight.

  14. #14
    Chram
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    That news article fails due to lack of rubbish pictures.

  15. #15

    Hm. The only problem I can see with this is if a paladin provokes and uses invincible.

  16. #16

    They'd have to provoke invincible flash, because invincible won't actually claim the monster.

  17. #17
    Puppetmaster
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    With this new patch you might want to take caution at Kirin. I was kiting Kirin last night. Byakko and the other gods poped and my other tanks voked them and they diddnt get claimed so we could not call for help on thm. It took my ninja almost 3 vokes and a war cry to get claim. I guess i should use less enimity for Kirin. Same dealing with Jailer of Justice depening on how different LSes deal with him. So that is one thing to watch out for with this new patch.

  18. #18
    E. Body
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    This reminds me of the time Synchro's PLD friend PL'd us a bit because the SMN sucked, and we got an add, and the PLD got attacked because of mass curing. We fought the mob but it wouldn't turn red. It remained yellow for a really really long while (probably means no exp >_>).

    Luckily I was there to save the day.

    http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/...laimsystem.jpg

  19. #19
    Sea Torques
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    this patch just makes me wonder about all the times a GM has ever said "yellow is fair game lol".

    I mean, why try to fix hate/steal issues if nothing was wrong?

  20. #20

    Quote Originally Posted by Raivyn
    this patch just makes me wonder about all the times a GM has ever said "yellow is fair game lol".

    I mean, why try to fix hate/steal issues if nothing was wrong?
    Same concept as if you work in retail and a Customer is saying something is wrong with the price and you know its not wrong but you give it to them anyways so they will shut up about it.

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