ninja gear

[freja]

How about the most decked out MNK/WAR you can think of with fully upgraded relic?

[Eaglestrike]

How about the most decked out MNK/WAR you can think of with fully upgraded relic?

Takes damage and stops chains.

[Ryko]

Fucking triple attacking AWP whores.

Bleh, u know what i meant =P

Yeah I just wanted a reason to say "AWP whores'

[freja]

How about the most decked out MNK/WAR you can think of with fully upgraded relic?

Takes damage and stops chains.

That's not the point. If we're talking about damage potential here, then what of it?

[aurik]

How about the most decked out MNK/WAR you can think of with fully upgraded relic?

Takes damage and stops chains.

That's context; you're not allowed to leverage context according to JCVD

[Eaglestrike]

How about the most decked out MNK/WAR you can think of with fully upgraded relic?

Takes damage and stops chains.

That's not the point. If we're talking about damage potential here, then what of it?

Taking damage lowers damage potential.

[kemigumi]

How about the most decked out MNK/WAR you can think of with fully upgraded relic?

Takes damage and stops chains.

That's not the point. If we're talking about damage potential here, then what of it?

Taking damage lowers damage potential.

how is that at all true?

according to your logic, getting hit as a mnk/war (gaining tp from dmg taken) lowers the damage potential more than a ridill war (/nin obviously) having to recast utsusemi (not gaining tp) because of the hate they've pulled?

i'm in no way arguing for a particular side here, but saying that taking damage plays an insignificant role in 'damage potential'.
*edited for slight detail

[Ryko]

U FAKE DRG

[kemigumi]

DRG poetry makes me nauseated, much like eggs.

[Ryko]

Now that you mention it whenever my stomach is agitated it tastes like I ate some bad eggs <_<

[Eaglestrike]

How about the most decked out MNK/WAR you can think of with fully upgraded relic?

Takes damage and stops chains.

That's not the point. If we're talking about damage potential here, then what of it?

Taking damage lowers damage potential.

how is that at all true?

according to your logic, getting hit as a mnk/war (gaining tp from dmg taken) lowers the damage potential more than a ridill war (/nin obviously) having to recast utsusemi (not gaining tp) because of the hate they've pulled?

i'm in no way arguing for a particular side here, but saying that taking damage plays an insignificant role in 'damage potential'.
*edited for slight detail

Parties with mages occasionally run out of mp. If mages run out of mp, and you have a DD going all out to reach their 'damage potential' they're going to die, which will severely cripple their damage potential as well as the parties exp gain.

[Ant]

So, assuming player skill between a MNK and WAR player are equal

since when does auto attacking a mob & using a ws require real gamer type "skill"?

if you say it takes skill to know when to use your ws not to take hate and get hit, thats not skill, its common sense

saying playing mnk/war or war/nin in a "burn" party & equating skill in there is like saying taking a shit requires skill - no, taking a shit requires sitting on a toilet and pushing out a turd. sit in the exp party and push out ws's

what melee skill is required to be a OMGBBQ WAR or MNK DD does require skill - but it isn't "game skill", its talking skill - getting the E.Body & ridill by being the "most deserving" ls member skill

once you have said E.Body & said Ridill then, i assume thats when the skill part comes in? skill in acquiring items?

ya - the only job in this game that is based on skill are mage jobs & sa/ta thief's/subs

melee jobs all come down to gear and food, auto enguage and ws - anyone who argues that has trouble pushing out turds




the rest of your post other then the "ffxi & war,mnk skill" refrences was very enjoyable

[Machazareel]

My alt+2 skills are unmatched.

[Raineer]

since when does auto attacking a mob & using a ws require real gamer type "skill"?

if that's all being an endgame melee means then why are so many so horrible at it?

[JeanClaudVanDamme]

So, assuming player skill between a MNK and WAR player are equal

since when does auto attacking a mob & using a ws require real gamer type "skill"?

if you say it takes skill to know when to use your ws not to take hate and get hit, thats not skill, its common sense

saying playing mnk/war or war/nin in a "burn" party & equating skill in there is like saying taking a shit requires skill - no, taking a shit requires sitting on a toilet and pushing out a turd. sit in the exp party and push out ws's

what melee skill is required to be a OMGBBQ WAR or MNK DD does require skill - but it isn't "game skill", its talking skill - getting the E.Body & ridill by being the "most deserving" ls member skill

once you have said E.Body & said Ridill then, i assume thats when the skill part comes in? skill in acquiring items?

ya - the only job in this game that is based on skill are mage jobs & sa/ta thief's/subs

melee jobs all come down to gear and food, auto enguage and ws - anyone who argues that has trouble pushing out turds




the rest of your post other then the "ffxi & war,mnk skill" refrences was very enjoyable

I actually agree with you man lol. As someone who's played many videogames competitively and on a tournament level, FFXI requires very little skill compared to say, Street Fighter (which is incredibly deep).

That's the other reason why I actually posted what I post: people keep bringing this supposed 'skill' up as if it's the huge determining factor that makes a war with ridill better than MNK. There isn't any skill in auto targetting and letting Ridill do what it does. End game FFXI players mistake common sense for skill.

That's the thing most here won't admit. At the end of the day, when all is taken into consideration (common sense), gear and food are the only two determining factor in who does the most damage. "Skill" plays a very small part in it. It's not a knock on the people, that's just the nature of online RPGs.

[Ant]

Street Fighter (which is incredibly deep).

for sure dude. i like what your bringing to the forum here some deeper thought about gaming as a whole. I played a few games competive, counter-strike, Stracraft ladder(4years), but NOTHING beats getting pwned in a street fighter tourney by what looked like a 4 year old Asian kid. that caped my career

[Dezzimal]

FFXI's "skill" is organization and communication really (and to some extent who can get the best bots). Those skills are what get you the gear that makes you better.

There are other skills, such as not screwing up ni to ichi casts, catching stuns etc...but really its all about organizing large groups of people to help yourself get what you want.

[Brennon]

Seriously, this whole "it depends on player" stuff is weak as shit. Obviously a lot of u guys have never played competitive gaming, otherwise you'd know of this thing called Tiering. I'll give you an example.

In Counterstrike, everyone knows glock fucking sucks and AWP = the cheat. Now of course you can say it all depends on skill and the player.
But this STILL doesn't change the fact that AWP is simply the better weapon. It was design that way. The game mechanics suggests it's that way. "But wait, it all depends on skill and someone with superior skill with a glock than someone with an AWP will kill him everytime!" you say. Yes, so what? This doesn't mean glock is better. This meant the skill difference between the two player is so great that one can make up for glock's shittiness with skill. Now, assuming both players are equally skilled and knows exactly what they're doing, and you have them go 1 on 1 with 2 grand on the line. You think they're stupid enough to choose Glock? Fuck no, because its a fact: AWP > Glock, and the player will use every advantage he can get to win. Hence, a tiering of the guns, raw hard facts that suggest which is clearly better than which. No 'it depends on players skills' bullshit. Because we aren't tiering the player's skills. We're tiering the weapons AVAILABLE to these players. AWP was simply DESIGNED to be the better gun.

I'll use another example, a Street Fighter (video game), cuz I've been playing SF competively and attend tournies once in a while. In every Street Fighter game, esp. high level tournament skill level, there's always a tier of which character is best. For example, in Street Fighter 3: Third Strike, the tiering goes ChunLi/Yun/Ken is far and away the 3 best characters in the game, and if it camedown to an absolute best, it's Yun. And this isn't talking out from your ass tiering. 90% of tournament results from Japan, to North America, to Europe shows that either a Ken, a Yun, or a Chunli has been on the winning team, or is the winner himself. These characters are simply better than the rest. They either had better pokes, better zoning, moves with higher priority, better suppers, or all the above. This make's them top tier, and in the hands of a player with top tier skills, it brings out the best potential in that character

Player A with more skill but using a low tier characer can beat Player B who's using a top tier character.

But if Player A with more skill uses a top tier character, he would rape the shit Player B, because not only does he have superior skill, now he has equal/superior tool(character).

Which brings us to FFXI. Lets start off by tiering the weapons. Ridill is fucking god tier and is far away the best weapon in the game. No one needs to go in detail; we all know why. WAR without Ridill is the 3rd best DD int he game, behind black belt MNKs and blinged out NIN. Give WAR a Ridill and it isn't even the same job. WAR with Ridill has the highest damage of any job. This is fact. So, assuming player skill between a MNK and WAR player are equal and both job has the best possible gear that job can get, its basically left to game mechanics and how the game works. And how the game works: Ridill WAR does the most damage in the game, the same as AWP is the best gun in CS, Yun is the best character in 3rd Strike. They were designed that way.

I understand completely about tiering of weapons.... that ridill falls into this category I do not accept. It is far far far more complex than that.

Takes damage and stops chains

Takes damage, yeah, sure. But, does not necessarily stop chains. The only place i can think of where having a mnk/war would potentially stop a chain more than other jobs is sky weapons, because of AoE stun.

[Eaglestrike]

Except the whole mnk/war's will take hate and take dmg on normal hits, instead of just AOE stun, thing. And will take a good amount of damage if using berserk. So it's more than just AOE stun.

[aurik]

But by JCVD's argument you're not allowed to bring context into it.