ninja gear

[Brennon]

Except the whole mnk/war's will take hate and take dmg on normal hits, instead of just AOE stun, thing. And will take a good amount of damage if using berserk. So it's more than just AOE stun.

And I'm saying, that is irrelevant, it does not prevent that pt from chaining high.

I'm not disagreing that mnk/nin is the overall better choice, but the point your trying to make has no bearing to the whole concept of ridill-war being somehow inherently better. I could bring up a whole other non-related points, like a mnk/wars 50+% counter rate, or better evasion, or whatever, but those points would also be irrelevant.

[Eaglestrike]

If a mage starts getting low on mp, they have to stop hasting, which slows down the entire party and can end chains. As well, if the mage completely runs out of mp at least the mnk/war will have to stop swinging. Maybe this isn't true in KRT, that's not exactly my kind of battleground, but I'm sure it's true in most other exp areas.

[Brennon]

If a mage starts getting low on mp, they have to stop hasting, which slows down the entire party and can end chains. As well, if the mage completely runs out of mp at least the mnk/war will have to stop swinging. Maybe this isn't true in KRT, that's not exactly my kind of battleground, but I'm sure it's true in most other exp areas.

I have very rarely experienced this happening. You seem to be suggesting this is inevitable on a mnk + war pt build, but it is not.

edit: also you seem to be assuming things to be true about situations you havn't been in. That's not really helpful to the discussion, is it? If you want, i can start theorizing some crazy shit too, but that wouldn't get us anywhere.

[Eaglestrike]

I know that I've been in parties where everyone is /nin and the mage runs out of mp from an extra add, one person taking too much hate and not getting shadows up, etc. If someone is /war, which will usually increase their damage output even more, they're going to take hate and need even more healing. I know in an exp pt with all melee nin or /nin and a rdm with dalm and everyone very skilled we had mp troubles a few times, /war would make mp problems a lot more common.

[aurik]

There you go inserting context again. By JeanClaude's argument, there is no context. Ken > all. Awp > Glock.

[Krandor]

There you go inserting context again. By JeanClaude's argument, there is no context. Ken > all. Awp > Glock.

Damn Fucking Straight.

[Lordwafik]

in krt you're fighting mobs nonstop, so just think of them as adds. RDM WHM BRD is sufficient healing to keep 3 people healed from unavoidable AOE's, that take off utsesimi reguardless, and sometimes aga3 spells. True it's very rough exp'ing, and harder to do than your usual party, but if my RDM, a WHM, and a Bard can keep the 3 melees with the lowest defence (<3 counterstance) alive, then I dont see the big problem. Unless it's on something like Qutrubs that WS for 600, gtfo /war.

[aurik]

Single-target 600 isn't worse than multi-target 200 each + drain HP Hell slash can do in excess of 400 anyway.

[Lockecole]

in krt you're fighting mobs nonstop, so just think of them as adds. RDM WHM BRD is sufficient healing to keep 3 people healed from unavoidable AOE's, that take off utsesimi reguardless, and sometimes aga3 spells. True it's very rough exp'ing, and harder to do than your usual party, but if my RDM, a WHM, and a Bard can keep the 3 melees with the lowest defence (<3 counterstance) alive, then I dont see the big problem. Unless it's on something like Qutrubs that WS for 600, gtfo /war.

Point is KRT doesnt mean much when you compare it to 90% of every other EXP spot.

Put up counterstance on a demon? Eat a 1k+++++ Condemnation. Bhaflau? Yeah...about every mob there has a TP move that will pretty much oneshot even a MNK (counterstanced) unless he has full HP. (Fang Rush is fucking rediculous, and the various multi-hit WSes the Mamool Ja have, wreck havoc on anyone with low defence.) Even though sky has VT mobs onry, with Smite of Rage and Whirl of Rage it's just as bad.

Basically a MNK/WAR could probably outDD a WAR/NIN, but "in context" it's pretty stupid to compare it when it's not a viable sub when you're chaining endlessly hardhitting mobs. You can't say "Wow I own WAR/NIN so much and even on MNK/NIN I pull hate when a WAR/NIN vokes." and then not also say "On MNK/WAR I'd pull even more hate because of Berserk and Double Attack, therefore I'd pretty much have hate 24/7, thus either dying or completely ruining any chance of upkeeping MP for a high chain." Can't have your cake and eat it too.

[aurik]

in krt you're fighting mobs nonstop, so just think of them as adds. RDM WHM BRD is sufficient healing to keep 3 people healed from unavoidable AOE's, that take off utsesimi reguardless, and sometimes aga3 spells. True it's very rough exp'ing, and harder to do than your usual party, but if my RDM, a WHM, and a Bard can keep the 3 melees with the lowest defence (<3 counterstance) alive, then I dont see the big problem. Unless it's on something like Qutrubs that WS for 600, gtfo /war.

Point is KRT doesnt mean much when you compare it to 90% of every other EXP spot.

Put up counterstance on a demon? Eat a 1k+++++ Condemnation. Bhaflau? Yeah...about every mob there has a TP move that will pretty much oneshot even a MNK (counterstanced) unless he has full HP. (Fang Rush is fucking rediculous, and the various multi-hit WSes the Mamool Ja have, wreck havoc on anyone with low defence.) Even though sky has VT mobs onry, with Smite of Rage and Whirl of Rage it's just as bad.

Basically a MNK/WAR could probably outDD a WAR/NIN, but "in context" it's pretty stupid to compare it when it's not a viable sub when you're chaining endlessly hardhitting mobs. You can't say "Wow I own WAR/NIN so much and even on MNK/NIN I pull hate when a WAR/NIN vokes." and then not also say "On MNK/WAR I'd pull even more hate because of Berserk and Double Attack, therefore I'd pretty much have hate 24/7, thus either dying or completely ruining any chance of upkeeping MP for a high chain." Can't have your cake and eat it too.

Which just goes to prove that JeanClaude's analogy just doesn't work for FFXI because there's context.

[JeanClaudVanDamme]

quote]Which just goes to prove that JeanClaude's analogy just doesn't work for FFXI because there's context.[/quote]

If by context you mean using common sense, as in, MNK should be subbing NIN in every exp pt outside KRT, then the Ridill WAR STILL WINS! Unless you truly believe a pimped out MNK/NIN really can compete with a pimped out Ridill WAR. That's BS.

[aurik]

quote]Which just goes to prove that JeanClaude's analogy just doesn't work for FFXI because there's context.

If by context you mean using common sense, as in, MNK should be subbing NIN in every exp pt outside KRT, then the Ridill WAR STILL WINS! Unless you truly believe a pimped out MNK/NIN really can compete with a pimped out Ridill WAR. That's BS.[/quote]

It's context, though, and thus it breaks your model of "there is no grey, only white and black".

BTW, mnk/nin really does compete...

[Elcura]

Good WHMs negate the need for /nin, I've done Thicket PTs with good WHMs on /war and still managed to get chain 200+. The only place I would sub /nin is Decos and Ule.

Stressed out WHMs and lazy melee's ftw.

[draxyl]

<3 mnk/nin, it's what I use in xp parties 60 > 72 so far - I deal equivalent damage to well geared war/nin's (actually, none have parsed higher but I have merits so its not an equal test), and I'm not an MP sponge.

Sure do wish I didn't miss out on berserk and DA tho ;;

edit: why the fuck did I post that? It didn't add anything to the conversation, and I still have no idea what's going on in the thread...oh well, post count +1 accomplished.

[Seebo]

edit: why the fuck did I post that? It didn't add anything to the conversation, and I still have no idea what's going on in the thread...oh well, post count +1 accomplished.

i'm doing the same quoting this! cause you're not allowed to give your opinion on BG without 1,000 + posts...otherwise you get lolflamed