SUPER SMASH BROTHERS BRAWL... [spoilers pg 70+]

[Heian]

I agree, once you get really good some of your friends won't even play with you, cause they don't want to get their asses kicked. And you can only practice so much with the computer.

Its ok I'll play with you no matter how much you kick my ass.

[Bebopaloo]

Too bad, I already called her to beat my ass.

[BRP]

Its true about people not wanting to play with you, luckily, my brother is good enough to win a good amount of time. I don't consider myself the best and I don't believe in that tier stuff either.

[Nirokun!]

Its true about people not wanting to play with you, luckily, my brother is good enough to win a good amount of time. I don't consider myself the best and I don't believe in that tier stuff either.

the best opponents to play againsts give you a 1/1 win ratio :3

The tiers are built on observations and discoveries made by top players (tournaments) (observing player1 using new technique "Wavedash" in a tourney match, players grow to incorporate the "Wavedash" into their own games, leveling the playing field while simultaneously raising the game [Wavedash is the name given to the manuever, same as Blink-tanking is given to the style of main-tanking typical of ninjas, despite the desparities of the spell "Blink" and the "Utsusemi" line of spells])

Characters are analyzed ad nauseam (FINALLY GET TO USE THAT OMG), well, since the release. The term "metagame" is used often, describing the ever-changing style of the community of top players. Its similar to FFXI in the sense of the "discovery" of different subjob combinations and their usefulness in FFXI. But because SSBM is more flexible on the player side, and FFXI being so widespread, it takes longer to collect this kind of data. Videos are circulated of tournament matches, and styles are analyzed and accounted for when judging matchups. The tier list adjusts to incorporate these changes, but large changes in the metagame are infrequent and minute, and the tiers change very little as a result.

The tier system is more simply understood as a way to understand characters in SSBM as tools. One tool is invariably better than another in a given situation (simile on the boards, cred to whomever i dunno, paraphrasing something i read a few days ago), be it against a different character-opponent, or a different stage/field. The tiers list the characters as most effective tools in any situation, using utmost skill. I dont care how strong you are, if i have an axe, im going to have an easier time cutting down a tree than you are with your spoon. Its never a definate decider of a match, and shouldnt be seen as such. You look at the tier list, knowing counter-character picks, and you pick 2. Assuming each player is incredible with their character choice (and experienced against different opponents of high skill level), the person with the character belonging to the higher tier is more likely to win over time.

Dont have to 'believe in that tier stuff' but i thought i'd just share why my well-equipped war is better than your well-equipped dragoon over time, in different situations, fighting different mobs. See what i mean? (Probably didnt read it ) Oh well, smash ftw :D

(sorry if i was talking funny and... dry >_> i just got finished writing a paper )

[Lordwafik]

Woot

http://content.ytmnd.com/content/e/0...4701b49e9f.gif

Fuck tiers.

[Po]

Fuck tiers.

indeed, Nintendo did not create this game with the intention of making one character better than the other. Tiers are only created by analyzing the game it ways it was not meant to be analyzed i.e - playing too much and taking it too seriously.
the same goes for "wavedashing". sure this is helpful and makes peoples games better but I do not think it was something nintendo meant to incorporate in the game. It is not an online game so it is not like they could do a update and fix it or whatever. I see it as a glitch people took advantage of. Hopefully SSBB will fix this issue as well as others, I was just poiting out examples.
I guess the overall point I am trying to make is that you people that take this game way too seriously and play way too much (Nirokun) are manipulating the game in ways it was not meant to be

[Elcura]

I say fuck tiers as well, certainly they are there, but anyone who picks chars solely based on tiers is playing the game for the wrong reasons, I only liked and picked Marth cause he was faster then Roy (who was my original all time player) and cause he had the same moves but faster. I didn't even know there were tiers for this game before this topic, let alone who was where.

I like Pi(chu)kachu because I was a hardcore pokemon fan back in the day, and Pichu is so fucking cute...

[Maguspk]

Woot

http://content.ytmnd.com/content/e/0...4701b49e9f.gif

Fuck tiers.

LMFAO.

Nirokun, you put that very well. To all of you saying Tiers are bullshit, you're stupid. You can't overanalyze a system. If you're too dense to see what Nirokun is trying to put across then just gtfo. Tier doesn't mean THIS CHARACTER BEATS THAT CHARACTER. All it means is that if two players are of equal skill then the higher tier has the upper hand based on alot of different scenarios. This doesn't necessarily determine the outcome of a match it's just a guideline.

[Po]

Tier doesn't mean THIS CHARACTER BEATS THAT CHARACTER. All it means is that if two players are of equal skill then the higher tier has the upper hand based on alot of different scenarios.

Couple things:
1) You just heard of tiers in this post like 2 or so pages back so how do you have any idea what you are talking about.
2) That sentence completely contradicts itself. If two players are of equal skill then any character can beat any other character. My roommate and I in college always played this game by selecting random characters and stages each time because that is most fun. What you said is players of the same skill will lose to the one in the "higher tier". This is saying that characters were made better than others lol.
3) Nintendo has said in the past that they did not create 1 character better than any other, the game is entirely based on skill which is why it is the best fighting game ever.
Try to stop contradicting yourself.

[Maguspk]

Tier doesn't mean THIS CHARACTER BEATS THAT CHARACTER. All it means is that if two players are of equal skill then the higher tier has the upper hand based on alot of different scenarios.

Couple things:
1) You just heard of tiers in this post like 2 or so pages back so how do you have any idea what you are talking about.
2) That sentence completely contradicts itself. If two players are of equal skill then any character can beat any other character. My roommate and I in college always played this game by selecting random characters and stages each time because that is most fun. What you said is players of the same skill will lose to the one in the "higher tier". This is saying that characters were made better than others lol.
3) Nintendo has said in the past that they did not create 1 character better than any other, the game is entirely based on skill which is why it is the best fighting game ever.
Try to stop contradicting yourself.

Wow you're stupid.

[Bebopaloo]

One sec, I'll find the videos of yoshi pwning on face.

K here is one, Just look up Fumi Yoshi on Youtube for more, there's a bunch of him doing really really well.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8cxlFCRCP...20smash%20bros

[Po]

I am stupid because of a typo? lol guess you never have a typo in your life.
The point is this, two players of the same skill have the same chance with any two characters in the game. Nintendo did not create tiers, and what you said in the sentence I quoted says that when 2 people are playing of the same skill the higher tiered character would win because of "scenarios". Whatever that means.
So I apologize for a TYPO. But next time try actually making a point and not insulting the way I typed it. Idiot.

[Maguspk]

I am stupid because of a typo? lol guess you never have a typo in your life.
The point is this, two players of the same skill have the same chance with any two characters in the game. Nintendo did not create tiers, and what you said in the sentence I quoted says that when 2 people are playing of the same skill the higher tiered character would win because of "scenarios". Whatever that means.
So I apologize for a TYPO. But next time try actually making a point and not insulting the way I typed it. Idiot.

I wasn't quoting you to point out a typo; I was quoting you to try and get you to read what I said, and what you said, over. I even italicized and bolded key points to lessen the chore of such a demanding task. But, obviously quoting your stupidity wasn't enough, so let me point it out again...

what you said in the sentence I quoted says that when 2 people are playing of the same skill the higher tiered character would win because of "scenarios". Whatever that means.

Now let's take a look at that sentence that you are so confidently basing your argument on...

Tier doesn't mean THIS CHARACTER BEATS THAT CHARACTER. All it means is that if two players are of equal skill then the higher tier has the upper hand based on alot of different scenarios.

Nowhere in my statement of Tiers did I say that tiers mean the outcome of a match. As a matter of fact I even said

Tier doesn't mean THIS CHARACTER BEATS THAT CHARACTER.

All it means is that in various situations a higher tier character will have the upperhand a majority of the time.

I'm curious as to what your elementary Reading Comprehension scores were.

[Po]

lol you just keep contradicting yourself. About the first thing you said, you are right, you did say "Tier doesnt mean THIS CHARACTER BEATS THAT CHARACTER" which is why I said you contradicted yourself. Your second sentence in that comment effectively contradicted the first one. I will show you how. You said in the second sentence "All it means is that if two players are of equal skill then the higher tier has the upper hand based on alot of different scenarios." Now, by saying one character has an advantage over another character IN ANY WAY, is promoting the tier system. I could care less about you throwing "scenarios" in there. This is not ffxi, SSBM has one scenario in the game which is defeating the other character.
Your latest comment enforces your contradictions and tier theory even more:
"All it means is that in various situations a higher tier character will have the upperhand a majority of the time."
in other words - 1 character is better than the other. No matter how you spin it there are not different scenarios in this game, this game is nothing at all like ffxi so stop making comparisons to it.
Btw here is the definition of contradiction:
"opposition between two conflicting forces or ideas"
Which is exactly what you are doing.

[Elcura]

Woot

http://content.ytmnd.com/content/e/0...4701b49e9f.gif

Fuck tiers.

LMFAO.

Nirokun, you put that very well. To all of you saying Tiers are bullshit, you're stupid. You can't overanalyze a system. If you're too dense to see what Nirokun is trying to put across then just gtfo. Tier doesn't mean THIS CHARACTER BEATS THAT CHARACTER. All it means is that if two players are of equal skill then the higher tier has the upper hand based on alot of different scenarios. This doesn't necessarily determine the outcome of a match it's just a guideline.

Might be a guildline, but the day everyone picks top tier characters is the day SSB will be a failure.

HELLO, KEYWORD IS FUN, NOT TEIRS!

We know tiers exist, I personally still think they're stupid.

[Maguspk]

lol you just keep contradicting yourself. About the first thing you said, you are right, you did say "Tier doesnt mean THIS CHARACTER BEATS THAT CHARACTER" which is why I said you contradicted yourself. Your second sentence in that comment effectively contradicted the first one. I will show you how. You said in the second sentence "All it means is that if two players are of equal skill then the higher tier has the upper hand based on alot of different scenarios." Now, by saying one character has an advantage over another character IN ANY WAY, is promoting the tier system. I could care less about you throwing "scenarios" in there. This is not ffxi, SSBM has one scenario in the game which is defeating the other character.
Your latest comment enforces your contradictions and tier theory even more:
"All it means is that in various situations a higher tier character will have the upperhand a majority of the time."
in other words - 1 character is better than the other. No matter how you spin it there are not different scenarios in this game, this game is nothing at all like ffxi so stop making comparisons to it.
Btw here is the definition of contradiction:
"opposition between two conflicting forces or ideas"
Which is exactly what you are doing.

Alright, I see where the problem is, your knowledge of Smash is limited. The situations I am referring to could be fighting in the air, edgeguarding, long distance, short distance, priority on moves, etc. And nowhere in my argument did I refer to FFXI at all, you came up with that one all on your own buddy.

[Po]

The situations I am referring to could be fighting in the air, edgeguarding, long distance, short distance, priority on moves, etc.

Magus, what is the goal when doing each one of these? To defeat the other character.
Sure, Luigi has better air attacks than Samus persay, but that does not make Luigi a better character or a higher tier. Still Luigi's goal is to beat Samus in the match and they both have equal chances to do that since Samus has the better projectiles for example. It all evens itself out my friend.
About the ffxi comparison thing, I apologize, some were doing that.

[Maguspk]

The situations I am referring to could be fighting in the air, edgeguarding, long distance, short distance, priority on moves, etc.

Magus, what is the goal when doing each one of these? To defeat the other character.
Sure, Luigi has better air attacks than Samus persay, but that does not make Luigi a better character or a higher tier. Still Luigi's goal is to beat Samus in the match and they both have equal chances to do that since Samus has the better projectiles for example. It all evens itself out my friend.
About the ffxi comparison thing, I apologize, some were doing that.

Hmmm, that was a fun argument I give up though, I don't know enough about the tier system to defend it properly.
/retreat

[Po]

/shakes hand, hope no hard feelings

[edgarfigaro]

3) Nintendo has said in the past that they did not create 1 character better than any other, the game is entirely based on skill which is why it is the best fighting game ever.
Try to stop contradicting yourself.

You're a fucking moron if you think that SSBM is perfectly balanced. There has yet to be a perfectly balanced fighting game, and there will never be one.

Jeez, anyone that's played the game long enough knows that certain characters are better than others. How can you sit there with a straight face and say Pichu is just as good as Fox? Two players of equal skill is the only time the tiers really come into play, because then over time, the person that picks the higher tier character will win more matches. It's a pretty simple fucking concept. If my brother was as good as me, and he picked marth and I picked bowser, it would be extremely likely that he would kick my ass.

All in all, you're a fucking moron. I think that pretty much sums it up...anyone that takes Nintendo's words seriously is a moron.