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  1. #1
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    Avatar statistics

    Hoping for a quick answer from here instead of hours of experimenting and crunching numbers.

    On most SMN AF, it lists the enhancements as "Enhances avatar accuracy/evasion/attack" and so on. Do these actions take effect when they are equipped or a one-time calculation when the avatar itself is summoned?


    I ask because I remember a while back someone saying avatar hp/str/vit etc was calculated only once and if you leveled up with the avatar out, these statistics would remain of the lower level until you resummoned. I was curious if the equipment enhancements act the same way.

    So...that's my question, feel free to flame me and direct me to a thread that was written 3 years ago with the answer.

  2. #2

    Sweaty Dick Punching Enthusiast

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    I've found just avatar damage in general is far too erratic and random to really worry too much about trying to meticulously change equipment. I'd say it's determined when the gear is changed even if your avatar is out, nonetheless, if offensively playing SMN, I have all my +acc/+atk macro'd in while I'm summoning before the avatar loads.

  3. #3
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    I was mostly curious I guess if you could wear Summoner's Bracers for summoning and then once the avatar is out switch to Nashira Gages for -1 perpetuation cost or something along those lines. Same deal with Summoner's Pigaches and Evoker's Pigaches +1. Maybe I'm just greedy and want it to be true so I can experience the best of both worlds.

  4. #4
    Ridill
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    I just wear -perp gear while an avatar is out, and just swap to BP gear when I do a BP. I don't wear anything special during summoning, other than what I plan to wear while the avatar is out.

  5. #5

    Sweaty Dick Punching Enthusiast

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    Even if you could, I don't see why you'd really want to. Pretty much like SE said, in the situations I care about avatar acc/atk, your avatar is out for 10 seconds, if that. A handful of MP isn't going to make or break those fights.

  6. #6
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    True, won't make or break a fight, but I'm a perfectionist.

    But see, depending on how it's calculated, it might be completely useless to switch to "BP gear" if it was calculated at the time of summoning. That's what I'm trying to find out.


    (Edited instead of posting twice in a row.)

  7. #7
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    Re: Avatar statistics

    Quote Originally Posted by Fryte
    On most SMN AF, it lists the enhancements as "Enhances avatar accuracy/evasion/attack" and so on. Do these actions take effect when they are equipped or a one-time calculation when the avatar itself is summoned?
    I prefer to err on the side of caution in this case. I assume that you need the Evoker's hands/feet equiped during the blood pact to get the effect. One thing you lose for certain is the -4 BP delay from the Evoker's gear if you switch to -perp pieces.

    To me, the situations you care about big damage / low BP delay are disjoint from those you care about low avatar perpetuation (i.e. HNMs vs soloing/farming), so there's very little motivation to test whether I'm being too conservative or not.

  8. #8
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    you almost got it fryte, i'd tell you personally, but i think it would end the debate if we said it for everyone:

    You dont need tests for this, because it incorporates everyone's side into the macros

    (for you whatiffer ppl, go away and do what you want, nobody cares that you're losing some acc for -bp)

    macro equip staff, +stat for avatar

    separate macro to punch after avatar is out, this is the -perp macro

    pre BP macro: switch in -BP gear, alt+b your BP (or however you like to do it)

    charging up BP macro (for your currently glowing avatars): +avatar stat, and allow the BP to go off, switch to -Perp afterwards or release

    This covers both the arguments that avatar stats are determined at the time of the summoning (affecting the avatar's stats while its out, independent of stat gear), and ensures that should the previous argument prove false, that you put in +avatar stat in before the BP goes off.

    The one fatal flaw of this is whether or not the avatar's stats are calculated in the time between summoning (dynamically) and the use of a BP (we would want to switch in +avatar stat before BP is started instead of -BP timer gear). If you believe that, the glass is half empty, right?

  9. #9
    Melee Summoner
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    IMO equip/stat modifiers kick in when right when you switch. Sometimes I'll summon with AF2 legs, then switch to Evokers after the summoning. Most of the time, my bp's wouldn't miss.

    If I did it vice versa, most of the time my bp's miss.

  10. #10
    Relic Shield
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    it will work if you swap in the gear prior to the pact. I have my macros set up in an easy way so i'll explain

    On my release macro, it sets me up with my healing mp gear basically, pluto staff, yinyang robe, heralds gaiters etc

    On each avatar macro it puts me into -perpetuation gear, and basic avatar gear (for carbuncle it equips gloves, for the rest it equips penance robe, the correct staff, evoker's pigaches +1

    Then i have 2 bloodpact macros, 1 of which I change, the other 1 which stays constant.

    That macro is:
    /equip Feet "Summoner's Pigaches"
    /ja "Predator Claws" <t>
    /wait 4
    /equip Feet "Evoker's Pigaches +1"

    The other macro is set the same, i just change the text where predator claws is to whatever other pact i am using often for that fight.
    this gets attack up, bloodpact time down, and works perfectly.

    I still do however use the menu for certain pacts i dont use too often like aerial armor or ward.

  11. #11

    I was told by another source that any gear which affects the Avatar takes effect immediately rather than at the time of summoning.

    For example, if you summoned a Carbuncle, parsed for 20 minutes with AF1 Feet, then switched to AF2 feet without resummoning, you could notice the Attack Increase.

    I've also been told that the Attack/Accuracy increases don't apply to Blood Pacts, but I still macro them in to be safe.

    3 Gear swap Macros:
    1. Full +Attack/+Accuracy/+Crit (AF2 Stuffs, AF1 Legs)
    2. Full -Perpetuation (Nashira Glove, AF+1 Feet, etc)
    3. Full -BP (Maximum -BP)

    Press 1.
    Press Summon Macro (equips staff)
    After summoned, press 2.
    When want to BP, press 3, then press BP macro.
    While Avatar is charging up, Press 1 again to get stat boosts.
    After BP Goes off, release Avatar or switch into -Perp again (2).


    As far as the original question, I'm actually not sure if the Avatars strength goes up when you level. I know that DRG Wyverns, and PUP Puppets are summoned at a fixed level, and they must be released/resummoned after you level up to get stronger. It's possible that Avatars do the same thing.

    But I'm reasonably sure that the gear changes are immediate, and what you're wearing at the time of summoning doesn't affect anything at all.

  12. #12
    The God Damn Kuno
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faranim
    As far as the original question, I'm actually not sure if the Avatars strength goes up when you level. I know that DRG Wyverns, and PUP Puppets are summoned at a fixed level, and they must be released/resummoned after you level up to get stronger. It's possible that Avatars do the same thing.
    When I do merc kris bc I summon an Ramuh while capped. When I get uncapped I still apparently have a lvl20 ramuh out, and he has shitty attack and stuff.

  13. #13

    I remember actually testing this before once I think a long time ago where I levelled up with an avatar out. I had to resummon that avatar to have access to it's new BP which leads me to believe that their level is fixed from the time you summon it.

    As far as stat gear goes, I haven't really tested. DRG wyverns get certain abilities that can stick at the time of summoning (ie, AF2 body effects) but others that are activated only when you are wearing that piece of equipment (DRG AF1 legs). So it could be either way on acc/avatar stat stuff I suppose..

  14. #14
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    When a DRG equip a Wyvern HP+, change are instant? It's most likely the same for SMN or any other pet

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faranim
    I've also been told that the Attack/Accuracy increases don't apply to Blood Pacts, but I still macro them in to be safe.
    Back when I dinged 75 on SMN it used to be pretty lucrative to farm webs off the spiders in Boyhada. I remember I would be ecstatic any time I broke 1k on Eclipse Bite on those (capped SMN magic, so don't even start :wink: ). Now, after adding several attack merits and Evoker's Pigaches, I typically see 1100-1500 Eclipse Bites on those same spiders while I'm passing through to the Aery. I'm convinced that ATT/ACC+ affects BPs, but draw your own conclusions I guess.

  16. #16
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hakamaru
    (capped SMN magic, so don't even start :wink: )
    Not that it'd matter anyway.

    At least the update that makes summoning magic skill actually affect something other than spirits will be happening within a few months.

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