Assault - Confirm Rank-Up Requirements?

[Khamsin]

My PFC record when I ranked up:
1/1 requiem
1/1 lamia #13
1/1 preemptive strike
1/2 ori survey
0/1 lebros supplies

All were done with 6 people except ori survey (5 people) and preemptive strike (4 people).

A friend of mine with a similar record was also able to rank up.

That's odd, my record is (with 3-4 people in each) is:
1/1 requiem
3/4 lamia #13 (lost first try with 4, won with 3, then did it again with the 4th that missed it, then did it again for the hell of it)
1/1 preemptive strike
1/2 orichalcum survey
0/4 lebros supplies

To me, this seems "better" than Aurik's record, in terms of getting 'rank up points'. But I have not been able to get the rank up quest yet.

[divisortheory]

My PFC record when I ranked up:
1/1 requiem
1/1 lamia #13
1/1 preemptive strike
1/2 ori survey
0/1 lebros supplies

All were done with 6 people except ori survey (5 people) and preemptive strike (4 people).

A friend of mine with a similar record was also able to rank up.

That's odd, my record is (with 3-4 people in each) is:
1/1 requiem
3/4 lamia #13 (lost first try with 4, won with 3, then did it again with the 4th that missed it, then did it again for the hell of it)
1/1 preemptive strike
1/2 orichalcum survey
0/4 lebros supplies

To me, this seems "better" than Aurik's record, in terms of getting 'rank up points'. But I have not been able to get the rank up quest yet.

post your PSC missions too?

[aurik]

My PFC record when I ranked up:
1/1 requiem
1/1 lamia #13
1/1 preemptive strike
1/2 ori survey
0/1 lebros supplies

All were done with 6 people except ori survey (5 people) and preemptive strike (4 people).

A friend of mine with a similar record was also able to rank up.

That's odd, my record is (with 3-4 people in each) is:
1/1 requiem
3/4 lamia #13 (lost first try with 4, won with 3, then did it again with the 4th that missed it, then did it again for the hell of it)
1/1 preemptive strike
1/2 orichalcum survey
0/4 lebros supplies

To me, this seems "better" than Aurik's record, in terms of getting 'rank up points'. But I have not been able to get the rank up quest yet.

post your PSC missions too?

I did. Go find my old post.

[genome]

You can count points from the assault counters, each keeps track of points from wins. The statement you quoted doesn't contain any kind of judgement, it's just data.
In terms of points, each lebros excavation was 1466 (putting my lebros assault points around8k+), it's one of the most rewarding in terms of points per win.
I think you might be forgetting the repeated wins you got before attaining PFC. They all count. I would guess they add up to 5 more wins aside from first time wins.

Actually, it's a judgement, and it's a good one based on all of the available information. But since we have absolutely no way at this point (from this data) to make anything better out of it, we're still kind of just guessing. And since we have no insight into the way SE coded assault, we'd never be able to state something as a "fact".

When I did PSC missions, I checked religiously to see when I could get the upgrade. It was literally a single mission win that put me between not getting offered a promotion and getting offered a promotion. So, the only way that my PSC mission count (aside from the 2 I mentioned) could have contributed towards PFC completion is if certain PSC missions ONLY counted towards PFC completion. To me, that doesn't seem like a reasonable assumption.

I think the reason why those don't seem to add up to you and a few other people is that you, aurik and khamsin didn't list all your PSC missions too.
I will give you an example using the '5 points for new 1 point for old' assumption. Say you had 4 wins of new PSC, and as many as 4 more repeated wins on PSC missions. No rank up (5x4 + 1x4=24; 24<25). Now you finally do the 5th PSC you needed and never won before, and you rank up (5x5+1x4=29; 29>25). Now you start doing more PFC missions, you still have those 4 extra points. Then do 4 new ones, and 1 more repeat (as in aurik's case), that gives you rank up (4+5x4+1x1=25).
You might get the feeling that those certain 4 PSC missions ONLY counted towards PFC completion, and to you, that might not seem like a reasonable assumption. Yet they did count toward your PSC completion too, you could have done 1 more repeat instead of getting the final missing new assault you needed.
So, if you guys can, list all your previous missions and repeated wins.

[aurik]

You can count points from the assault counters, each keeps track of points from wins. The statement you quoted doesn't contain any kind of judgement, it's just data.
In terms of points, each lebros excavation was 1466 (putting my lebros assault points around8k+), it's one of the most rewarding in terms of points per win.
I think you might be forgetting the repeated wins you got before attaining PFC. They all count. I would guess they add up to 5 more wins aside from first time wins.

Actually, it's a judgement, and it's a good one based on all of the available information. But since we have absolutely no way at this point (from this data) to make anything better out of it, we're still kind of just guessing. And since we have no insight into the way SE coded assault, we'd never be able to state something as a "fact".

When I did PSC missions, I checked religiously to see when I could get the upgrade. It was literally a single mission win that put me between not getting offered a promotion and getting offered a promotion. So, the only way that my PSC mission count (aside from the 2 I mentioned) could have contributed towards PFC completion is if certain PSC missions ONLY counted towards PFC completion. To me, that doesn't seem like a reasonable assumption.

I think the reason why those don't seem to add up to you and a few other people is that you, aurik and khamsin didn't list all your PSC missions too.
I will give you an example using the '5 points for new 1 point for old' assumption. Say you had 4 wins of new PSC, and as many as 4 more repeated wins on PSC missions. No rank up (5x4 + 1x4=24; 24<25). Now you finally do the 5th PSC you needed and never won before, and you rank up (5x5+1x4=29; 29>25). Now you start doing more PFC missions, you still have those 4 extra points. Then do 4 new ones, and 1 more repeat (as in aurik's case), that gives you rank up (4+5x4+1x1=25).
You might get the feeling that those certain 4 PSC missions ONLY counted towards PFC completion, and to you, that might not seem like a reasonable assumption. Yet they did count toward your PSC completion too, you could have done 1 more repeat instead of getting the final missing new assault you needed.
So, if you guys can, list all your previous missions and repeated wins.

Already did. If you care that much, go find the post.

And I would say that this information is highly speculative, far from "confirmed".

[Wizerd]

Why not just beat Lebros Supplies? It's not that hard, especially if the trainer is able to coordinate everyone else for what food each NPC should eat. You don't even need to flee the whole time, just make sure everyone without it has 1 Powder boots, and everyone who can subs THF. NIN and starting at night is helpful. Easy Cheesy now.

[aurik]

Why not just beat Lebros Supplies? It's not that hard, especially if the trainer is able to coordinate everyone else for what food each NPC should eat. You don't even need to flee the whole time, just make sure everyone without it has 1 Powder boots, and everyone who can subs THF. NIN and starting at night is helpful. Easy Cheesy now.

That's a lot of conditions. Not all mages have thf sub, not all jobs can wear power boots, and even with those you need a near-flawless run or an understanding of the food-point-system to win.

Far cry from a mission like lamia #13, preemptive strike, or requiem which are a complete joke.

[divisortheory]

Why not just beat Lebros Supplies? It's not that hard, especially if the trainer is able to coordinate everyone else for what food each NPC should eat. You don't even need to flee the whole time, just make sure everyone without it has 1 Powder boots, and everyone who can subs THF. NIN and starting at night is helpful. Easy Cheesy now.

Another good tip is to save large foods for the very far (southwest) NPCs, and use small foods for the close (north) NPCs. This minimizes the number of times you have to walk far, and maximizes the number of times you have to walk not very far.

[Khamsin]

Why not just beat Lebros Supplies? It's not that hard, especially if the trainer is able to coordinate everyone else for what food each NPC should eat. You don't even need to flee the whole time, just make sure everyone without it has 1 Powder boots, and everyone who can subs THF. NIN and starting at night is helpful. Easy Cheesy now.

We've gone in with 3-5 powder boots each, a couple hermes quenchers, good coordination, and we still run out of time with a couple NPCs left to feed. We are 3 NIN + RDM, and start right at dusk, though once we tried with 2 NIN + BLM + RDM.

[Khamsin]

My complete assault record is:

PSC
2/2 Leujaom Cleansing
1/1 Excavation Duty
1/1 Seagull Grounded
1/1 (the one where you dodge axe throws and firespits to bust down doors)
2/3 Golden Salvage (won first try, lost one of the times we redid it).

PFC
1/1 requiem
3/4 lamia #13 (lost first try with 4, won with 3, then did it again with the 4th that missed it, then did it again for the hell of it)
1/1 preemptive strike
1/2 orichalcum survey
0/4 lebros supplies

Naja tells me I'm doing a good job, and to keep doing Assaults, but no rank yet.

[genome]

You can count points from the assault counters, each keeps track of points from wins. The statement you quoted doesn't contain any kind of judgement, it's just data.
In terms of points, each lebros excavation was 1466 (putting my lebros assault points around8k+), it's one of the most rewarding in terms of points per win.
I think you might be forgetting the repeated wins you got before attaining PFC. They all count. I would guess they add up to 5 more wins aside from first time wins.

Actually, it's a judgement, and it's a good one based on all of the available information. But since we have absolutely no way at this point (from this data) to make anything better out of it, we're still kind of just guessing. And since we have no insight into the way SE coded assault, we'd never be able to state something as a "fact".

When I did PSC missions, I checked religiously to see when I could get the upgrade. It was literally a single mission win that put me between not getting offered a promotion and getting offered a promotion. So, the only way that my PSC mission count (aside from the 2 I mentioned) could have contributed towards PFC completion is if certain PSC missions ONLY counted towards PFC completion. To me, that doesn't seem like a reasonable assumption.

I think the reason why those don't seem to add up to you and a few other people is that you, aurik and khamsin didn't list all your PSC missions too.
I will give you an example using the '5 points for new 1 point for old' assumption. Say you had 4 wins of new PSC, and as many as 4 more repeated wins on PSC missions. No rank up (5x4 + 1x4=24; 24<25). Now you finally do the 5th PSC you needed and never won before, and you rank up (5x5+1x4=29; 29>25). Now you start doing more PFC missions, you still have those 4 extra points. Then do 4 new ones, and 1 more repeat (as in aurik's case), that gives you rank up (4+5x4+1x1=25).
You might get the feeling that those certain 4 PSC missions ONLY counted towards PFC completion, and to you, that might not seem like a reasonable assumption. Yet they did count toward your PSC completion too, you could have done 1 more repeat instead of getting the final missing new assault you needed.
So, if you guys can, list all your previous missions and repeated wins.

Already did. If you care that much, go find the post.

And I would say that this information is highly speculative, far from "confirmed".

No I don't care much about your assault win record =P
I was just explaining that showing just a partial record of wins is probably why things just seem speculative or confusing.
Like I said my win record is not speculative, it's factual. If you do the same assault missions, you will get the promotion at the same time.

[Wizerd]

Why not just beat Lebros Supplies? It's not that hard, especially if the trainer is able to coordinate everyone else for what food each NPC should eat. You don't even need to flee the whole time, just make sure everyone without it has 1 Powder boots, and everyone who can subs THF. NIN and starting at night is helpful. Easy Cheesy now.

We've gone in with 3-5 powder boots each, a couple hermes quenchers, good coordination, and we still run out of time with a couple NPCs left to feed. We are 3 NIN + RDM, and start right at dusk, though once we tried with 2 NIN + BLM + RDM.

Learn the food point system.

[divisortheory]

My complete assault record is:

PSC
2/2 Leujaom Cleansing
1/1 Excavation Duty
1/1 Seagull Grounded
1/1 (the one where you dodge axe throws and firespits to bust down doors)
2/3 Golden Salvage (won first try, lost one of the times we redid it).

PFC
1/1 requiem
3/4 lamia #13 (lost first try with 4, won with 3, then did it again with the 4th that missed it, then did it again for the hell of it)
1/1 preemptive strike
1/2 orichalcum survey
0/4 lebros supplies

Naja tells me I'm doing a good job, and to keep doing Assaults, but no rank yet.

Using genome's heuristic that first time win = 5 points, subsequent win = 1 point, loss = 0 points, and rank up every 25 points, your score is:


6 points - 2/2 Leujaom Cleansing
5 points - 1/1 Excavation Duty
5 points - 1/1 Seagull Grounded
5 points - 1/1 (Mamool Ja Training Grounds)
6 points - 2/3 Golden Salvage

5 points - 1/1 requiem
7 points - 3/4 lamia #13
5 points - 1/1 preemptive strike
5 points - 1/2 orichalcum survey
0 points - 0/4 lebros supplies

6+5+5+5+6+5+7+5+5 = 49

Wow, this is fucking perfect! Do one more old assault. Winning should bring you to 50 points. Talk to Naja and see if you can rank up.

[Coephoros]

I think the reason why those don't seem to add up to you and a few other people is that you, aurik and khamsin didn't list all your PSC missions too.
I will give you an example using the '5 points for new 1 point for old' assumption. Say you had 4 wins of new PSC, and as many as 4 more repeated wins on PSC missions. No rank up (5x4 + 1x4=24; 24<25). Now you finally do the 5th PSC you needed and never won before, and you rank up (5x5+1x4=29; 29>25). Now you start doing more PFC missions, you still have those 4 extra points. Then do 4 new ones, and 1 more repeat (as in aurik's case), that gives you rank up (4+5x4+1x1=25).
You might get the feeling that those certain 4 PSC missions ONLY counted towards PFC completion, and to you, that might not seem like a reasonable assumption. Yet they did count toward your PSC completion too, you could have done 1 more repeat instead of getting the final missing new assault you needed.
So, if you guys can, list all your previous missions and repeated wins.

I know, for a fact, that it was exactly 1 mission win that put me from PSC to PFC, and that it was exactly 1 mission win that put me from PFC to SP. I also know, for a fact, which missions I undertook during my PFC days (4/7, no repeats, for PFC; 2/2 repeated wins in PSC missions). I do not, unfortunately, know what my missions were for PSC. However, that being said, I'm going to posit that the "25 point" rule does not obtain based on my win history.

1. First off, let's assume that I was at the 24 point threshhold at PSC, and my last win took me to 29 points.

2. After I attained my PFC, I talked to Wonderllama (I don't remember the NPC name, the guy who gives you the assessments). I wanted to see if there was any new dialog, but he gave me the default "zero" message (meeting Naja's spikey friend, which turns me on for some reason).

3. We did the pre-emptive strike the same day we got PFC, beat it, and I talked to Wonderllama again. He gave me speech number one (the one about being smashed to a pulp).

4. I subsequently did 2 more PSC missions, then I failed Lamia 13, then I beat Lamia 13. I talked to Wonderllama, and he gave me speech number two (far from the middle).


The problem with the 25 point theory is that, based on what I've done, at Step 4 I should have gotten message #3. 29+5+2+5 = 41. But I didn't.

To complicate matters, I did not talk to Wonderllama again after I beat Requiem (which was right after the Lamia 13 win). I did not talk to Wonderllama again until after I beat Orichalcum (which was also after a loss to Orichalcum and a loss to Feed the Homos). When I talked to him after beating Orichalcum, he told me to expect a message from Naja at any time, and I talked to Naja and she gave me the quest.

[Khamsin]

Why not just beat Lebros Supplies? It's not that hard, especially if the trainer is able to coordinate everyone else for what food each NPC should eat. You don't even need to flee the whole time, just make sure everyone without it has 1 Powder boots, and everyone who can subs THF. NIN and starting at night is helpful. Easy Cheesy now.

We've gone in with 3-5 powder boots each, a couple hermes quenchers, good coordination, and we still run out of time with a couple NPCs left to feed. We are 3 NIN + RDM, and start right at dusk, though once we tried with 2 NIN + BLM + RDM.

Learn the food point system.

We've been using the food point system. We haven't had any "full" messages by over feeding, since we only visit each NPC as many times as it takes to get them to full according to the point system posted in the other thread. We haven't wasted any time by going back and confirming that any are actually full.

Yet we run out of time before getting to the last couple NPCs.

[Coephoros]

I did some backwards calculations and came up with an Assault record that I think is 95% accurate.

PSC:
3/5 Golden Salvage
1/1 Hold the guy's Hand
3/3 Worms
3/4 Break the Walls
3/3 Break the Doors

PFC:
1/1 Kill the Mamools
1/2 Lamia #13
1/1 Kill the Undead
0/1 Feed the Homos
1/2 Orichalcum Survey


Based on my point totals, I've got 33 points in PSC, and 20 points in PFC. That total fits in to your 25-step program. It could be that the messages received are not necessarily on a 5-point interval, which would nullify my previous concerns.

[aurik]

So, if you guys can, list all your previous missions and repeated wins.

Already did. If you care that much, go find the post.

And I would say that this information is highly speculative, far from "confirmed".

No I don't care much about your assault win record =P
I was just explaining that showing just a partial record of wins is probably why things just seem speculative or confusing.
Like I said my win record is not speculative, it's factual. If you do the same assault missions, you will get the promotion at the same time.

If you don't care then don't fucking ask.

And the "point system" is highly speculative; you just made up a bunch of numbers and say "HAY LOOK GUYS IT WORKS". It may be right, it may be wrong. The only data you have tried it against is your own.

[genome]

I think Divisortheory is right Khamsin would be another good test, so Khamsin don't do that cursed lebros supply, do one repeated one first to test (even with the food point system it's a lot of work and coordination).

I did some backwards calculations and came up with an Assault record that I think is 95% accurate.

PSC:
3/5 Golden Salvage
1/1 Hold the guy's Hand
3/3 Worms
3/4 Break the Walls
3/3 Break the Doors

PFC:
1/1 Kill the Mamools
1/2 Lamia #13
1/1 Kill the Undead
0/1 Feed the Homos
1/2 Orichalcum Survey


Based on my point totals, I've got 33 points in PSC, and 20 points in PFC. That total fits in to your 25-step program. It could be that the messages received are not necessarily on a 5-point interval, which would nullify my previous concerns.

Thanks for backtracking through your assaults.
Yeah I didn't pay too much attention to the NPC guy after a while because he seemed a bit too vague and ended up just going directly to Naja to check for new CSs, so I am not really sure when the messages change (and now i can't test anymore), but SE often makes that sort of things a bit vague and nonlinear (e.g. fomor hate NPC message, stale draft) unless they use a specific counting system like traded fish or coins.

[JeanClaudVanDamme]

Reliable JP on my server said something about going from PFC to SP requires a total of 25 points, and that each 2nd tier win nets you 5 points. Though he never beat Lebros supply mission, he was able to get SP rank by beating 4/5 (minus Lebros) then going back and beating Lamia 13 5 times. 5+5+5+5+1+1+1+1+1 = 25 SP.

[Coephoros]

Now I've reexamined my Assault history and done more calculations, and the numbers I posted above are 99.9% right but suggest that the 25-point basis is incorrect.

33 points on the PSC missions, but only 2 of those points were earned after I ranked up to PFC. I was pretty anal about checking the guy after every win, and I'm certain that it was only the 5th win that put me into the PFC category. So, that means that I had 26 points before completing the last one, which would have already qualified me for PFC.

Khamsin's test would be helpful at disproving the 25-point theory, but would still leave some room for questioning if he happens to rankup after another repeated win. There is the distinct possibility that I have forgotten something or am mistaken in my recollections, no matter how confident I am... but we really need more tests.