Excalibur Additional Effect

[Lockecole]

I lost the lot on excalibur but briefly saw it while it was in the LS

Bikkwin getting the Excalibur came down to a lot between multiple people?

Ouch, worst lost lot ever.

so did i miss some drama or do i need to dig up something i missed? Did Bikkwin quit or something happen as a result of him getting the relic? I sensed some drama over him getting the relic but never saw anything pasted people questioning him getting the relic over others. Now your posts make it seemed something drastically terrible happened lol.

Uhh he quit the game like a year ago?

[budd]

Relic WEAPONS apparently have a latent effect: Quit FFXI for another MMO.

Thats just what I was told. Relic weapons seem like a waste of time and gil.

[Tekki]

I cant see myself quiting this game after getting my relic. thats myself, not speaking on behalf of other players. I can definetely see other players quiting after getting their own relic. Basically getting to the point where they think, "IT IS DONE!" and feeling like they have nothing else to do and the game is now boring.

But as for myself having a final relic would only add to the excitement and fun of tanking Ive felt for the past 13+months as a 75PLD

[budd]

Or you can get to being just shy of your relic, have 95% of the currency, and just quit.


Seen it happen.

[Lockecole]

I cant see myself quiting this game after getting my relic. thats myself, not speaking on behalf of other players. I can definetely see other players quiting after getting their own relic. Basically getting to the point where they think, "IT IS DONE!" and feeling like they have nothing else to do and the game is now boring.

But as for myself having a final relic would only add to the excitement and fun of tanking Ive felt for the past 13+months as a 75PLD

That's the thing Tekki, you're either the person above who thinks getting an item is the end, or you're like you (and me) where becoming uber or achieving a large goal is just the beginning, and still realizing there's so much more to accomplish in the game.

[Nagamaki]

There's no question Gjallarhorn will help with MP and is simpler than some of the other options (in use anyway). However, Gjallarhorn will not solve all hate issues, the same way other relics won't make mobs just fall over.

Overall the horn has the greatest effect simply because of the job its for, but deciding that only BRDs (and PLDs) should ever get relics is just not something I think is right. If you're a LS picking who should get one, you'll probably want to make a horn first, but if you're an individual playing the game, you can pick whatever you want to upgrade. In the end, the best you can have is a tank PT with an Aegis and a horn, AND some DDs with relics, not 4 BRDs with horns.

As for BLMs and not dying, yeah BLMs get plenty of hate, but I don't think you'll run into a lot of BLMs that will be opposed to their MB damage shooting up. Also there's even some rather successful linkshells that rely on BLMs drawing ridiculous hate and dying as part of their strategy for killing HNMs with lower numbers. Seems a little silly, but its hard to deny the effectiveness after seeing Orz (on Seraph) kill Faf and Nid with 8 people so many times (pre hyper timer, but they didn't really take much over an hour anyway).

In response to Lockecole, doubling Light (or Dark) acts as an additionnal SC level-up for both the SC and the MB multipliers.

[budd]

I cant see myself quiting this game after getting my relic. thats myself, not speaking on behalf of other players. I can definetely see other players quiting after getting their own relic. Basically getting to the point where they think, "IT IS DONE!" and feeling like they have nothing else to do and the game is now boring.

But as for myself having a final relic would only add to the excitement and fun of tanking Ive felt for the past 13+months as a 75PLD

That's the thing Tekki, you're either the person above who thinks getting an item is the end, or you're like you (and me) where becoming uber or achieving a large goal is just the beginning, and still realizing there's so much more to accomplish in the game.

I didn't say that personally I thought it was the end of the game. I've been playing for almost 3 years now.

I could write up a long post about how certain things (CoP/non instanced boss mobs/etc) in FFXI are pretty lame. But basically everything about FFXI/Relics/etc has been said over like the last year and a half anyway; the dead horse has been beaten repeatedly. (I could say the same thing about WoW, too, though... or basically any MMORPG).

Not that having a relic isn't exciting or something, but the novelty wears off after a while. Especially after you experience the feeling you get when you expect more than what you got.

[nivlakian]

In response to Lockecole, doubling Light (or Dark) acts as an additionnal SC level-up for both the SC and the MB multipliers.

Are there any threads regarding actual tests on the increased multiplier?

[RKenshin]

Am I the only one that finds it kind of ironic, that PLD/NIN is mentioned often in this thread, and yet Aegis is still brought up in combination with that? Correct me if I'm wrong on any points, but I'm certain you can't shield block while shadows are up, and if you're utilizing PLD/NIN then Aegis in essense doesn't really come in as much use as most seem to exclaim it to be. Sure, great for when shadows are down, but that's not too often, and makes it more like the Shadow Mantle given to a NIN tank. (not that it's a bad idea, but I'm sure you understand my point)

I think most will agree with me as well, when I say that the most successful and well-known linkshells across the servers will use PLD/NIN more often than PLD/WAR (either that or NIN or NIN/DRK or WARs, etc). Straight from the PLD's mouth, "PLD/NIN can actually hold hate better than PLD/WAR in most HNM fights." Most of you even said this yourself to some extent, where taking damage will lose hate. And which takes less damage? I think the answer is obvious.

Point I'm getting at is, Aegis isn't really as useful as it used to be with the perfection of PLD/NIN tanking. So I guess the only relic that ever should be sponsored in an upgrade is Horn?

Btw, please don't start any PLD/NIN vs PLD/WAR vs NIN/WAR vs NIN/DRK vs WAR BS. Thanks.

[Ryko]

The aegis also has the added benefit of drastically reducing the damage of things that don't normally get blocked too, ruke. Inferno blasts, ga spells, great sandstorm/whirlwind, wings, the list goes on.

[Wizerd]

In response to Lockecole, doubling Light (or Dark) acts as an additionnal SC level-up for both the SC and the MB multipliers.

That's funny. I tested SCs and MBs months ago and lv1 SC gave the same BLM MB damage as a lv3 SC did. (Liquefaction vs Light) Dumb luck, several times in a row?

I could get senseless to test this for light continuation though, as I've heard it gives more MB damage as well.

I wouldn't say that. Look at the en-spell damage. >,>

Excalibur additional effect does physical damage, based on the mob type, and ignores defense completely.

[edgarfigaro]

In response to Lockecole, doubling Light (or Dark) acts as an additionnal SC level-up for both the SC and the MB multipliers.

Are there any threads regarding actual tests on the increased multiplier?

SC lvl has no effect on MB multiplier. Impaction=Fragmentation=Light in the eyes of a blm. The SC DAMAGE, however, increases on the level...I think Light to Light is 1.5XSC damage versus just light.

[RKenshin]

The aegis also has the added benefit of drastically reducing the damage of things that don't normally get blocked too, ruke. Inferno blasts, ga spells, great sandstorm/whirlwind, wings, the list goes on.

Yeah, but when you hear people talk about Aegis do they talk about that or the shield blocks? The most amazing feature by far is definately the block percentage and the damage reduction when blocking, not so much the Shield Bash damage or the -25% Magic Damage taken.

It's like how people always talk about Ballad on the Horn. If you took the extra Ballad ticks away, sure you could go on about how it gives more attack and a better march, etc, but the Ballad increase is by far the best part of the weapon. Take that away and it's not nearly as amazing.

I feel it's the same for Shield and the Block rate, and I'm pretty sure most other people do as well since when we hear Aegis we think of blocking, and not the other features. Just like for when we hear the Relic Horn (not going to try to spell it if you haven't noticed), we think of Ballad and not mambo.

[Ryko]

Yeah, but when you hear people talk about Aegis do they talk about that or the shield blocks? The most amazing feature by far is definately the block percentage and the damage reduction when blocking, not so much the Shield Bash damage or the -25% Magic Damage taken.

Well that's why I called it an added benefit, I know full well what it's upgraded for but it's not like those other factors necessarily have to be ignored. I'd love to have all damage I couldnt potentially block get rocked with a 1/4 reduction as a tank.

[layoneil]

However, Gjallarhorn will not solve all hate issues

it's not suppose to.

If you're a LS picking who should get one, you'll probably want to make a horn first

now you're getting it.

In the end, the best you can have is a tank PT with an Aegis and a horn, AND some DDs with relics, not 4 BRDs with horns.

i would say the best is 1 Horn + 2 Aegis before any weapons.

People seem to ignore the defensive factor of Excalibur as well.

it can't possibly be as high as the defensive factor of Aegis.

and your whole argument is okay but does nothing to explain why Excalibur over Aegis.

Did Bikkwin quit or something happen as a result of him getting the relic? I sensed some drama over him getting the relic but never saw anything pasted people questioning him getting the relic over others. Now your posts make it seemed something drastically terrible happened lol.

about a dozen BG people quit FFXI at the same time to make a WoW guild (some time last October or November). mostly it seems like they were disenchanted with the direction of endgame in FFXI. Bikkwin was one of those people.

Excalibur was probably a contributing factor sure, but i think a bugged JoL was a bigger factor and the interview they (Bikkwin, Berticus, Ondori) had with Sage Sundi was even a bigger factor. even though everything Sundi said about ToAU was flat out wrong and opposite of the ToAU we see today.

there was some heated discussion in the LS over the relic but there was no drama.

we argued about which relic to upgrade. Excalibur beat Gjallahorn by about a 2 to 1 margin when everyone voted. GKT got like 2 votes, pretty sure Aegis didn't exist at the time.

after we decided on Excalibur, we discussed who in the LS would make use of it and is most worthy of it. after all the arguments were laid out, it was an almost even split between Bikkwin and Xavier.

since the voting didn't solve anything, someone suggested (forgot who, maybe me) we go out and get the Attestation and let the 2 of them lot on it. no one else had any better ideas so that's what happened and that's what we did. everyone seems to have accepted that decision.

if any drama came, it was after we got Excalibur and used it and realized the added effect gives little to no hate. so the #1 argument that had people choosing Sword over Horn failed big time.

Bikkwin started going to events (Fafnir, Jorm, etc) in full accuracy gear to get the added effect to proc as many times as possible. he ended up functioning similar to a SMN (parsed similarly vs Jorm). a lot of damage, not a lot of hate. he also held his own against BB MNKs in KRT PTs.

than the WoW split.

Point I'm getting at is, Aegis isn't really as useful as it used to be with the perfection of PLD/NIN tanking.

that would be my argument too if the choice came down to between Horn and Shield.

So I guess the only relic that ever should be sponsored in an upgrade is Horn?

Nagamaki's got it right, "make a horn first". after you have 1 Horn, you can do almost whatever you want. but you can count with your fingers how many NA HNM LS are in the position to say "okay, now that we have a Horn, what should we do next?"

the majority of the people are not IRON and BtL. the majority of LS still don't have that first horn yet.

sure you could go on about how it gives more attack and a better march, etc

does it really? i was under the assumption that it doesn't have a greater effect than the currently existing +2 instruments.

[Tekki]

Am I the only one that finds it kind of ironic, that PLD/NIN is mentioned often in this thread, and yet Aegis is still brought up in combination with that? Correct me if I'm wrong on any points, but I'm certain you can't shield block while shadows are up, and if you're utilizing PLD/NIN then Aegis in essense doesn't really come in as much use as most seem to exclaim it to be. Sure, great for when shadows are down, but that's not too often, and makes it more like the Shadow Mantle given to a NIN tank. (not that it's a bad idea, but I'm sure you understand my point)

I think most will agree with me as well, when I say that the most successful and well-known linkshells across the servers will use PLD/NIN more often than PLD/WAR (either that or NIN or NIN/DRK or WARs, etc). Straight from the PLD's mouth, "PLD/NIN can actually hold hate better than PLD/WAR in most HNM fights." Most of you even said this yourself to some extent, where taking damage will lose hate. And which takes less damage? I think the answer is obvious.

Point I'm getting at is, Aegis isn't really as useful as it used to be with the perfection of PLD/NIN tanking. So I guess the only relic that ever should be sponsored in an upgrade is Horn?

Btw, please don't start any PLD/NIN vs PLD/WAR vs NIN/WAR vs NIN/DRK vs WAR BS. Thanks.

Shadows down, yes sheild blocking can kick in

[aers]

The regen from using KoR is like, nothing compared to the Aegis.. I dont even notice it half the time and I do dynamis with a PLD with it regularly (well, he doesnt tank anymore, but when he did), even though he spams KoR to get that effect. I also never once saw the invinciblity proc.

About gjallarhorn:

The only benefit it provides over other instruments is the Ballad+2, it makes no sense if it improves other songs more then the +2 allready on instruments; I suppose it can be argued you get like, one more attack out of the wind skill? >_> Yet the fact that you get 7 MP/tick solely from ballads with gjallarhorn, and it pushes up to 10/tick with refresh, that's a lot of curaga/curaga II for say a war/whm, thats a lot of cure 4's from the pld..

Also, I've watched a PLD with aegis tank some things (there are apathy members browsing this board I'm sure they can talk about it more), and it was pretty impressive. Would still do horn first.

[Nagamaki]

Gjallarhorn will help all uncapped songs because of the stats on it beside all songs+2.

Charisma +4
All Songs +2
Singing Skill +10
Wind Instrument Skill +10

The skill and CHR aren't going to make a much of a difference on other songs as the +2 does to ballad, but they do make some.

[RKenshin]

Nagamaki beat me to it.

He basically said everything I was about to say.

[aers]

minuet 4 w/o my skill gear & minuet 4 w/ my skill gear & no merits (+23 wind, +15 singing i think, not at home) give the same attack bonus, so +10 to each is going to either give 0 or 1 more attack on it. i highly doubt it's high enough to give extra % on march. maybe it will give 1 more +stat on etudes, but I doubt that too.