Quick question... please settle this argument...

[Lockecole]

Sorry to derail but heres another ninja question. A ninja on my server told me warwolf > speed belt. Is that true? (See sig)

Edit: talking about TP / DoT, not WS (I know Warwolf is better for WS)

Wow...just wow.

[Kaylia]

Don't forget kid, never ask a question on the internet. Make baseless assumption instead.


Speed is better, but still not as strong as some people might it sound compared to warwolf.

[Russta]

Sorry to derail but heres another ninja question. A ninja on my server told me warwolf > speed belt. Is that true? (See sig)

Edit: talking about TP / DoT, not WS (I know Warwolf is better for WS)

Wow...just wow.

The guy who asked him this is a complete idiot and, like, my entire LS has said Ninja blisted. People who have played this game for so long and still don't know what stat does what never cease to amaze me.

[Machazareel]

Don't forget kid, never ask a question on the internet. Make baseless assumption instead.


Speed is better, but still not as strong as some people might it sound compared to warwolf.

I dunno, they're talking about TP gain and DoT, and I'm fairly certain there's a big difference between 'good' and 'completely fucking useless' >_>

[Lockecole]

Don't forget kid, never ask a question on the internet. Make baseless assumption instead.


Speed is better, but still not as strong as some people might it sound compared to warwolf.

I dunno, they're talking about TP gain and DoT, and I'm fairly certain there's a big difference between 'good' and 'completely fucking useless' >_>

Forget the fact that it takes off a combined (5 seconds?) of Utsusemi, (quite possibly the most important thing while tanking as NIN), and its still a hell of alot better then Warwolf. Haste is the only stat that has no diminishing returns, and helps so many aspects of a NINs job.

[Machazareel]

That was my point, though I probably worded it badly.. in my example speed = good, Warwolf = completely fucking useless, hence the difference between the two being pretty siginicant. <.<

[Corgan]

Forget the fact that it takes off a combined (5 seconds?) of Utsusemi, (quite possibly the most important thing while tanking as NIN), and its still a hell of alot better then Warwolf. Haste is the only stat that has no diminishing returns, and helps so many aspects of a NINs job.

orly?

[Wizerd]

Forget the fact that it takes off a combined (5 seconds?) of Utsusemi, (quite possibly the most important thing while tanking as NIN), and its still a hell of alot better then Warwolf. Haste is the only stat that has no diminishing returns, and helps so many aspects of a NINs job.

orly?

In FFXI's calculating systems, yarly. Haste+50% does what Haste+100% should technically do... (double your speed)

[Corgan]

I always heard it worked like this:

You have 500 base delay.
You have a piece of equipment which gives a 5% haste, cutting your delay down to 475.
You have another piece of equipment with 5% haste on it, cutting your reduced delay of 475 by 5% down to 451.25.

If this is the case, then your second piece of 5% haste gear is obviously lowering your delay less than your first; thus, you are experiencing diminishing returns. I haven't done much testing of this myself, but this is just what I hear a lot.

[Krandor]

I'll dig up the link off KI about how haste works and update this post in a bit, camping atm <_<

It's been assumed that things like Haste and Damage Reduction have diminishing returns as you stack them, since that's standard fair for how MMORPGs have worked over the years, but that's been proven wrong thru tests.

[Machazareel]

Haste stacks directly, though you need to remember that this game measures damage and haste and such in 256ths.

edited because I typed 255 instead of 256 ;[

edited once again with the full info, written by none other than Aurik.

Damage reduction is purely additive and is measured in 256ths. Therefore the figures given on the items in whole percentages is rounded.

The actual damage reduction on Jelly Ring is 12~/256 I think. Terra staff, 51~/256. Therefore your total damage taken is is floor[(256 - (12+51))/256 * 1000] = floor[193/256 * 1000] = floor[753.9~] = 753.

Damage reduction on black belt is 12/256, I took 953 from 1000 needles last night. Jelly ring might be 13 and Terra staff might be 50. Go out and test if you really care.

PS. What does shadow ring taste like?

Edit: I might also add that haste is calculated in a similar way, measured in 256ths and rounded in the item description. Haste on black belt is 30/256, not 12%

This was explained after some guy ate 1000 needles while wearing Terra Staff and Jelly Ring, and took 753 damage.

[Lockecole]

Haste stacks directly, though you need to remember that this game measures damage and haste and such in 256ths.

edited because I typed 255 instead of 256 ;[

edited once again with the full info, written by none other than Aurik.

Damage reduction is purely additive and is measured in 256ths. Therefore the figures given on the items in whole percentages is rounded.

The actual damage reduction on Jelly Ring is 12~/256 I think. Terra staff, 51~/256. Therefore your total damage taken is is floor[(256 - (12+51))/256 * 1000] = floor[193/256 * 1000] = floor[753.9~] = 753.

Damage reduction on black belt is 12/256, I took 953 from 1000 needles last night. Jelly ring might be 13 and Terra staff might be 50. Go out and test if you really care.

PS. What does shadow ring taste like?

Edit: I might also add that haste is calculated in a similar way, measured in 256ths and rounded in the item description. Haste on black belt is 30/256, not 12%

This was explained after some guy ate 1000 needles while wearing Terra Staff and Jelly Ring, and took 753 damage.

30/256ths is .117185%, for all intents and purposes, 12% (even though it technically isnt.) None of this has anything to do with Haste having diminishing returns, cause it doesnt.

50% HASTE, REDUCES RECAST TIMERS IN HALF. There's no question that this is true. Regardless of what it does with weapon delays (which I believe it works the same way) it still can easily be proven how it works on spell recasts, the major reason a NIN uses haste gear in the first place.

[Tymon]

All MNK WS are 1 hit extra, too, with the exception of Shoulder Tackle.

[Machazareel]

30/256ths is .117185%, for all intents and purposes, 12% (even though it technically isnt.) None of this has anything to do with Haste having diminishing returns, cause it doesnt.

Correct. It does, however, have everything to do with the statement I was replying to.

I always heard it worked like this:

You have 500 base delay.
You have a piece of equipment which gives a 5% haste, cutting your delay down to 475.
You have another piece of equipment with 5% haste on it, cutting your reduced delay of 475 by 5% down to 451.25.

If this is the case, then your second piece of 5% haste gear is obviously lowering your delay less than your first; thus, you are experiencing diminishing returns. I haven't done much testing of this myself, but this is just what I hear a lot.

Namely, this one. >_>

[Lockecole]

Yeah, sorry, I was replying to the other guy, just was using your quote as a referance. I agreed with everything you said.

[Machazareel]

Ah, ok. Minor misunderstanding on my part then ;o

[NynJa]

All MNK WS are 1 hit extra, too, with the exception of Shoulder Tackle.

actually MNK WS's are exempt from this.
Asuran is described as an 8 hit ws.
5+1+1+1+1+1+1 + 5 = 16, that includes the "offhand".


h2h is exempt because you cant "single wield" h2h weapons.

[Priran]

actually MNK WS's are exempt from this.
Asuran is described as an 8 hit ws.
5+1+1+1+1+1+1 + 5 = 16, that includes the "offhand".


h2h is exempt because you cant "single wield" h2h weapons.

That being said, all "Single Hit" MNK WS are actually 2, with 2 chances to Double Attack and whathaveyou.

30/256ths is .117185%, for all intents and purposes, 12%

FFXI will always round down a decimal. So 30/256 is for all intents and purposes 11% until you equip enough extra to bump it over 12%.

[Mysterio]

I always heard it worked like this:

You have 500 base delay.
You have a piece of equipment which gives a 5% haste, cutting your delay down to 475.
You have another piece of equipment with 5% haste on it, cutting your reduced delay of 475 by 5% down to 451.25.

If this is the case, then your second piece of 5% haste gear is obviously lowering your delay less than your first; thus, you are experiencing diminishing returns. I haven't done much testing of this myself, but this is just what I hear a lot.

referring to haste actually diminishing as it compounds? interesting.

[Awoir]

Something else from the convo. TP in STR gear is still the thing to do.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c274/Awoir/heero.jpg

Edit: Yea, as Russta said he's known to be stupid. He owns 2 belts for his NIN, Warwolf and Scouter's Rope. He told me to ask a ninja about which is better (warwolf vs. speed) and I proceeded to ask 2 ninjas (Russta being one, the other being a ninja with kikoku, both said speed > warwolf)