So Wafik got a Mandau...

[NynJa]

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/index.php/TP

seems pretty accurate.

[Eaglestrike]

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/index.php/TP

seems pretty accurate.

It looks like it, it just misses how Dual Wield changes TP floor and that floor isn't removed completely.

[aurik]

Eagle: huh?

The April 18 update changed the TP system so that weapons of various Delays would gain TP at relatively the same rate. The 5.0 TP floor was removed, and weapons of higher Delay gain TP at a rate similar to that of low Delay weapons. Shortly after the update, the players from Studio Gobli found the new TP formulas. The new formulas are:

Delay Tactical Points
0 - 180 5.0 + [(Delay - 180) * 1.5] / 180
180 - 450 5.0 + [(Delay - 180) * 6.5] / 270
450 - 480 11.5 + [(Delay - 450) * 1.5] / 30
480 - 530 13.0 + [(Delay - 480) * 1.5] / 50
530 - 999 14.5 + [(Delay - 530) * 3.5] / 470

The Dual Wield trait allows players to equip two weapons simultaneously and reduce their combined Delays. TP gain when dual wielding is calculated using this reduced Delay. The average Delay is used in the TP calculations, and both weapons will give that TP.

* Average Delay = (Delay1 + Delay2) / 2
* Reduced Delay = Average Delay * (1 - DuelWield%)

For example

A Level 50 Beastmaster/Ninja with Dual Wield II (a bonus of -15% Delay) using a Tomahawk with 340 Delay and a Battleaxe with 276 Delay would get:

* Average Delay: (340 + 276) / 2 = 308
* Reduced Delay: 308 * (1 - 0.15) = 308 * 0.85 = 261.8
* TP gain: 5.0 + [(261 - 180) * 6.5] / 270 = 6.95, round down to 6.9 TP

[XxSlusherxx]

patch only really benifitted using 2hand as opposed to DW, not so much 1 hand vs. DW.

[aurik]

patch only really benifitted using 2hand as opposed to DW, not so much 1 hand vs. DW.

It really didn't affect DW, it affected people who were exploiting the TP floor. Single-weilded 150 dagger got a nerf too.

[XxSlusherxx]

patch only really benifitted using 2hand as opposed to DW, not so much 1 hand vs. DW.

It really didn't affect DW, it affected people who were exploiting the TP floor. Single-weilded 150 dagger got a nerf too.

were you trying to reword what I said???

[aurik]

patch only really benifitted using 2hand as opposed to DW, not so much 1 hand vs. DW.

It really didn't affect DW, it affected people who were exploiting the TP floor. Single-weilded 150 dagger got a nerf too.

were you trying to reword what I said???

No, I said something different than what you said. You didn't mention anything about TP floor.

[Eaglestrike]

Eagle: huh?

What is the 'huh?' for? It's exactly how I said, no thf can get below 9tp a round, even with Sirocco+hornetneedle for 300 delay and 20% DW bonus for 240 delay. 240 delay for a THIEF is the same tp gained per round as 262delay. I tested this as soon as I logged on after the patch and gained no lower than 9tp a round, ever. And I took off all +store TP items.

[Ichthyos]

Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse here but I was under the impression that the floor was gone as well.

To be specific: Eaglestrike, do you mean your swings are 4.5TP with Suppa regardless of whether you have Blau/Sirocco (178+150 base delay) or Sirocco/Hornetneedle (150+150 base delay)?

[Eaglestrike]

Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse here but I was under the impression that the floor was gone as well.

To be specific: Eaglestrike, do you mean your swings are 4.5TP with Suppa regardless of whether you have Blau/Sirocco (178+150 base delay) or Sirocco/Hornetneedle (150+150 base delay)?

Yes.

[aurik]

Eagle: huh?

What is the 'huh?' for? It's exactly how I said, no thf can get below 9tp a round, even with Sirocco+hornetneedle for 300 delay and 20% DW bonus for 240 delay. 240 delay for a THIEF is the same tp gained per round as 262delay. I tested this as soon as I logged on after the patch and gained no lower than 9tp a round, ever. And I took off all +store TP items.

I believe I saw numbers on KI showed that a nin can get lower than 4.5 tp using higher DW. 4.5 isn't a floor.

[Eaglestrike]

That's what I'm saying. There was a nerf to DUAL WIELD, the TRAIT. The more DW you have, the lower the floor is. So for a nin, their floor is less than 4.5. For a THIEF, with limited DW traits, it is 4.5.

[aurik]

Uh....evidence where?

[Eaglestrike]

My own personal tests? I'm not sure of a parser that will show tp gained exactly and I tossed my hornetneedle (lol). But that's what I tested and I have never ever gotten less than 9tp during an attack round with any dagger combination I've used. My evidence for tp floor depending on DW traits comes from the nin's who claim they've gotten as low as 4.1 per strike.

Edit: If you want to test it, use Wafik and buy a platoon dagger/beestinger or use his hornetneedle, just watch his tp gain.

Edit 2: With Sirocco mainhanded.

[aurik]

My own personal tests? I'm not sure of a parser that will show tp gained exactly and I tossed my hornetneedle (lol). But that's what I tested and I have never ever gotten less than 9tp during an attack round with any dagger combination I've used. My evidence for tp floor depending on DW traits comes from the nin's who claim they've gotten as low as 4.1 per strike.

Edit: If you want to test it, use Wafik and buy a platoon dagger/beestinger or use his hornetneedle, just watch his tp gain.

That isn't evidence of a floor that is dependant on DW traits.

Wafik has sirocco, sup 150 delay, and his tp gain matches the formula on ffxyclopedia which doesn't have anything to do with a floor dependant on DW traits.

2 150 delay daggers = 300 delay = 240 adj delay = 120 delay per hand = 4.5 tp per hit according to formula without this bullshit tiering-floor-depending-on-DW you're tossing out.

So once again I say, evidence where.

[Eaglestrike]

I'll go test again after Dynamis which I'm gathering for and see what happens.

[aurik]

You won't be able to break 4.5tp on thf because the fastest weapons you can equip, with the highest DW you can get, give you 4.5 per hit (according to the new formula)

[Eaglestrike]

But to my understanding both Blau/Sirocco and Sirocco/150weapon gave me the same amount of tp. So I'm going to find some crabs and just gain tp, if I gain 9tp/round all the way up to 297 tp (33 rounds, 66 strikes) then they'll give me the same amount of tp gained.

If that isn't the case, then I'm wrong and that sucks, but that makes me worry less about Mandau's offhand once I get it.

[aurik]

blau/sirocco is 4.5 tp per hit too:

178+150 = 328
[328 * 0.8] = 262
[262 / 2] = 131

(131 * 1.5 / 180) = -73.5
[-73.5] = -74

-74 / 180 = -0.4111..
5 - .41111 = 4.58888...
[4.58888...] = 4.5

[Nagamaki]

Here's why THF can't get less than 4.5, all going by the formula on wiki.

THF with 2 150s and 20% DW = delay 120

(120 - 180) * 1.5 / 180 + 5 = Exactly 4.5

Now this same THF with a 150 and a Blau, 178 delay = delay 131.2

(131.2 - 180) * 1.5 / 180 + 5 = 4.5933333, which lo and behold rounds down to 4.5

A delay of 132 is required to make TP per hit (without Store TP) jump from 4.5 to 4.6, going by this formula. Inverting the DW calculation and assuming 1 hand is 150 delay, that means any dagger with less than 179 delay or less will result in 4.5 per hit, a dagger with 180 would result in 4.6

NINs can get less not because of some sort of floor, but simply because they can get more DW which takes their delay low enough to dip below a 4.5 result with that formula.

Just making up numbers here, lets say a NIN can get 40 DW. I think they can actually get more than that from the 4 traits + suppa + af1 body + af2 legs, but lets just use that number here.

150 + 150 with 40 DW means effectively 90 delay per hit

(90 - 180) * 1.5 / 180 + 5 = 4.25

There's no TP floor in sight.